* The Scale of the Universe

[Mitch9128]

I give up. SF is not the one on the attack. If he was, I would question him.

You prove my point with every post you make on this subject. You views on religion will never change. You tar all religion with the same brush and are proud to do so.

As to William buckland, he was a man of God, a minister, but was prepared to look at somthing that seriously challenged his view and use logic to come to a conclusion that was to him, amazing.

I'm an Atheist, yes of course my view on religion won't change, same as every other atheist's view on it. Stop trying to silence debate Jon, it's an open forum. What did you expect, that SF would post something and i'd convert to Islam or sumsuch? Atheist's question religion and those who support it, it's all very well SF saying he isn't religious, but he believes in God. Sorry you can't cop out like that, christianity was founded on a belief in God, and that he sent his son to earth to save us all, they go hand in hand, you can't have one without the other.

[Mitch9128]

It would be so much easier if you hadn't created a religion around worshipping him.

Oh you deleted your post SF?!

[Squashed_Fly]

What did you expect, that SF would post something and i'd convert to Islam or sumsuch?

I never tried to convert anyone to anything??? Where did that come from?

it's all very well SF saying he isn't religious, but he believes in God. Sorry you can't cop out like that,

That's not a cop out. Religion & faith are 2, VERY different things. Like most atheists, I hate religion. But I still believe in God.

christianity was founded on a belief in God

No it wasn't

and that he sent his son to earth to save us all,

Only those that believe in him....That is the foundation of Christianity.

And whether you believe in the 'sky fairies' or not, almost every part of Jesus life as told in the bible, is factual. Historians don't debate that. Was he the son of god? Who knows - I'll find out for sure when I die I guess.

You make a lot of very sweeping generalisations about the church, chritianity etc Mitch. And certain aspects of what you say may be right. But I would recommend going to lots of churches, and reading the bible for yourself before you argue either way. If you don't fully understand the bible, God, or what church is about, how can you make the statements you do about it? You should make some effort to find all of that out, and only then you can really decide for yourself.

And you may still be an atheist, but you would be one who fully understands chritianity etc, and so can the make and educated decision. I would never try and 'convert' anyone. Like I said to start with, beliefs/ideas/religions/faiths (in God and/or science) are all personal.

[Mitch9128]

The Islam comment was in reply to Jon, read the context.

So you belief is in the Biblical Yahweh and his son Jesus... If you reject the book why don't you reject the god they represent?

I can identify with your emotional attachment to the Jesus character, I really do. The problem with Jesus is that the peaceful teachings of Jesus if you love him come with the flip side of eternal torture if you don't.

Like i said, It would be so much easier to separate God and religion, if you hadn't created a religion around worshiping him.

[Swanny]

I'm not an atheist I just don't believe in god or religion.
I don't want a label I'm a free spirit.

[redken1]

I recall a conversation I had with another patron from my local pub – the chap in question was a keen skier. We were chatting about my VFR, when the chap said, “I can’t understand how any rational thinking person could ride a motorcycle.”

To which I replied, “That’s because you don’t understand that most people don’t always think rationally, do you when you are flying down a mountain at 60 plus mph on a couple of bits of flimsy plastic?

Does it really matter whether or not any religion is based on rationale?

Whatever "Floats you boat" is what really matters. 8-)

[Mitch9128]

I recall a conversation I had with another patron from my local pub – the chap in question was a keen skier. We were chatting about my VFR, when the chap said, “I can’t understand how any rational thinking person could ride a motorcycle.”

To which I replied, “That’s because you don’t understand that most people don’t always think rationally, do you when you are flying down a mountain at 60 plus mph on a couple of bits of flimsy plastic?

Does it really matter whether or not any religion is based on rationale?

Whatever "Floats you boat" is what really matters. 8-)

Look at the Catholic church Ken, starving Africans dying of Aids, whilst the Pope sits on his golden throne, i thought that would have caught in the back of your throat in particular?

[Mitch9128]

"Many of us saw religion as harmless nonsense. Beliefs might lack all supporting evidence but, we thought, if people needed a crutch for consolation, where's the harm? September 11th changed all that. Revealed faith is not harmless nonsense, it can be lethally dangerous nonsense. Dangerous because it gives people unshakeable confidence in their own righteousness. Dangerous because it gives them false courage to kill themselves, which automatically removes normal barriers to killing others. Dangerous because it teaches enmity to others labelled only by a difference of inherited tradition. And dangerous because we have all bought into a weird respect, which uniquely protects religion from normal criticism. Let's now stop being so damned respectful!"

[Squashed_Fly]

Not everyone who believes in God is a child molesting, African war lord sitting on a golden throne... You're using extreme examples to make your point. Every biker isn't a gun running, drug smuggling criminal. You don't judge other bikers based on hells angels, so why judge all people who believe in god by those few examples you are aware of?

[Mitch9128]

Your God murders, approves of rape, condones slavery, asks that men sacrifice their sons to him. Jesus, his supposed son, lies to the masses. His book, is full of blatant contradictions, which any fool can see through.

You condone and approve of these things, yet whine when you are opposed?