Insurance mileage

So I've just renewed my insurance (using a broker - H&R), and given what I think is a fair estimate for my mileage. Nothing strange there, exactly what I've always done for my bike and car insurance.

Where I sign at the bottom and send back, they've included a statement that requires me to declare my current mileage and sign separately that it will not go more than my annual estimate over this for the next 12 months. There is also a 'n.b.' which reads "N.B. Should the mileage exceed the agreed limit in this period I understand the insurance will be ineffective."

I've never understood it be an 'agreed limit' before, merely an estimate which, if grossly underestimated, gave the insurance company cause to mitigate any claim I make.

So two questions for any legal bods out there:
Are they allowed to ask me to declare and sign?
Even if I were to sign, would the 'n.b.' statement hold in a court?

And I guess an open question... do most people have this on their insurance?

Any advice appreciated! Cheers

Basically you're saying i will only do X anount of mileage a year but they need to know from where that is starting from.

As you could say you do say 2000 miles a year - but its actually 15000 but they won't know what it started from

I guess your bike is under 3 years old or new to you? As most of them can estimate it from previous MOT's

Give them the genuine mileage what you think you'll do - quite often it makes no difference in cost but can be costly if you falsly declare!

and yes it would stand up in court - basically your signing a statement and if you make a false statement they can they have you for falsly obtaining insurance by deception and then after you leave court you'll get a NIP for no insurance etc!

Don't be stupid and declare it correctly [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

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Originally Posted by Davey

Basically you're saying i will only do X anount of mileage a year but they need to know from where that is starting from.

As you could say you do say 2000 miles a year - but its actually 15000 but they won't know what it started from

I guess your bike is under 3 years old or new to you? As most of them can estimate it from previous MOT's

Give them the genuine mileage what you think you'll do - quite often it makes no difference in cost but can be costly if you falsly declare!

and yes it would stand up in court - basically your signing a statement and if you make a false statement they can they have you for falsly obtaining insurance by deception and then after you leave court you'll get a NIP for no insurance etc!

Don't be stupid and declare it correctly [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

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Cheers Stu, I think I must have asked the question wrong though.

I'm not after declaring falsely, but with this signed declaration (which I've never had to do before) I feel like wildly overestimating just so I don't accidentally get into a bad situation!

I've done a bit of Law in my accountancy training, and the 'n.b.' style of including a clause just looks weird. Basically, I'm agreeing that I understand 'X', when nowhere in the contract is it explicitly stated that 'X' applies!

For clarity, I'm not thinking of being dishonest or trying to reduce my premium (I could probably double my mileage and it wouldn't make much difference), but I just want to understand the strength of the statement I'm being asked to put my signature next to. And whether I have to watch every mile I do in the last months of my policy!

Does it seem sensible that a week before my next renewal I can't go on a 150 mile ride out because I've only got 120 miles 'left' on my policy? Just seems strange to me. I'm all for throwing the book at anyone who gets caught doing 30k a year and only declaring 10k.

(P.S., I've had the bike about 6 months and it's got about 35k miles on it, not really sure if that's relevant though.)

how can they prove it's you that's done the mileage? how do they know that you haven't got a mate who's covered 3rd party to ride any bike and borrowed yours for a day to do a 500 mile trip somewhere? For example :)

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Originally Posted by Dabz

how can they prove it's you that's done the mileage? how do they know that you haven't got a mate who's covered 3rd party to ride any bike and borrowed yours for a day to do a 500 mile trip somewhere? For example :)

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That's a bloody good point I hadn't thought of. But it makes me think even more that the clause is not enforcable. And if it's not enforcable, I'd question whether they are able to insist I sign it.

Any more views???

You'll prob read that it'll refer to the bike mileage in the small print - personally stop being a tw@t and trying to save a few quid by fraudulently obtaining insurance - if your bike is going to do the mileage just get the insurance for it as your my mate took it out won't stand for nowt unless you can prove the mileage before and after along with mileage log for all miles covered!

If your not happy with the guidelines of the policy go with someone else not that hard is it! ::)

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Originally Posted by Davey

You'll prob read that it'll refer to the bike mileage in the small print - personally stop being a tw@t and trying to save a few quid by fraudulently obtaining insurance - if your bike is going to do the mileage just get the insurance for it as your my mate took it out won't stand for nowt unless you can prove the mileage before and after along with mileage log for all miles covered!

If your not happy with the guidelines of the policy go with someone else not that hard is it! ::)

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Well not so cheers for that response. :(

If you'd read my posts you'd know I wasn't trying to fraudulently obtain insurance. I don't think actually complained about the clause either?

Just wanted to know if it was common as I'd not seen it before, and find out whether it was actually meaningful so that I knew whether to bump up my declared mileage to something I don't think I'll do (I'd rather pay the extra tenner and cover myself).

Didn't your mum ever say 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all'? ;) (Admittedly the sentence with 'my mate' in it didn't make sense - so you might have meant it less hostile than it came it across :-/ ???)

Stu could you please try not being such an agressive t@at please...he was asking for input...that is all >:(


I know you work in a shop so know everything about everything!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] And before you get shirty with me I know you served in the army....woopy do< I served in the boy scouts....bite me! ;D

Love a peace!!

F

Common sense really... Think what is important you agree to the T&C's and provide the correct information to the best of your knowledge!


8-)

Most boy scouts that I have met are tougher than soldiers, they carry swiss army knives!

LOL @Finbar :)

This kind of thing is always aimed at people who are being fradulent.
So if you are doing 50K per year it's not ok to say you are doing 10K.

However they don't expect you to note down every trip, and if you went 30 miles over they would not refuse a claim. Insurance is a regulated business and if they treat you unfairly you have recourse to an independent ombudsman for free.

What you should do is, overestimate your mileage a bit. This is only sensible and what most peopel would do naturally to ensure they don't get into trouble.
If your cirumstances/mileage changes significantly like you move house, get a new job or get a long distance love interest then you should advise your insurer of the change.
It's both legally and morally right that are provided with the correct information as to the nature of the risk.
You shouldn't worry about going 50 miles over.
They are targetting people who lie and commit fraud to get a cheaper premium, not expecting you to keep tabs on it.

However if you are worried about the figure it's a 3 minute job to compare the mileage on your bike with the mileage on your MOT certificate, so it's not that difficult to keep tabs on it.

Lisa, do you suffer insomnia perchance? :-?

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Originally Posted by finbar

Stu could you please try not being such an agressive t@at please...he was asking for input...that is all >:(


I know you work in a shop so know everything about everything!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] And before you get shirty with me I know you served in the army....woopy do< I served in the boy scouts....bite me! ;D

Love a peace!!

F

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No I'll be as aggressive as I like - don't like it don't read it [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

No I don't know everything about everything - just unlike most if I don't know I don't post 8-) Having dealt with numerous people that have had to stop biking for a period/ life as hit by uninsured, or doubtful insurance so claim has been dragged out and can't afford to get something else.

Personally that was aimed that if you're trying to be a tw@t and cut corners and save money - your a knob and deserve all the abuse given - if genuine question you shouldn't be offended. Finbar if you actually knew me you would know I am prob one of the most genuine bikers out there who goes out their way to help people - unfortunatly for weak minded people that don't know me they get upset that I type the way I speak!

As you're trying feably to be funny/ clever I served with the Royal Marines not Army ::) More to the point why bother bringing that up here as I never?

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Originally Posted by Davey

Personally that was aimed that if you're trying to be a tw@t and cut corners and save money - your a knob and deserve all the abuse given - if genuine question you shouldn't be offended.

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In that case, fair point.

Thing is, it isn't in the small print anywhere. So they are quite intentionally putting conflicting points in the contract (for a decent reason, to try to stop tw@ts under-declaring mileage). I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, I just want to understand what I'm signing :)

I'll do the simple thing and give them a call, see what they say.

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Originally Posted by b_m1957

[quote author=Davey link=1269077486/0#12 date=1269162027]Personally that was aimed that if you're trying to be a tw@t and cut corners and save money - your a knob and deserve all the abuse given - if genuine question you shouldn't be offended.

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In that case, fair point.

Thing is, it isn't in the small print anywhere. So they are quite intentionally putting conflicting points in the contract (for a decent reason, to try to stop tw@ts under-declaring mileage). I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, I just want to understand what I'm signing :)

I'll do the simple thing and give them a call, see what they say.[/quote]

Don't forget insurance companies will try everything to not payout. Personally I get unlimited mileage or way higher than I'll do just in case, and don't let mates use my bike as normally only covered 3rd party and if they bin it - you can then ruin a good friendship trying to get money out of them! BTW don't get offended by the way I type - if I meant to be direct and be nasty I'd pm it or say it direct to someones face! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Unfortunatly people don't understand the way I type and read it the wrong way ::)

Hi Stu,

YOU WILL NO DOUBT KNOW HOW MUCH IT PAINS ME TO CORRECT YOU ON A FEW POINTS...HERE GOES:

'' Finbar if you actually knew me you would know I am prob one of the most genuine bikers out there who goes out their way to help people - unfortunatly for weak minded people that don't know me they get upset that I type the way I speak!''

I MIGHT NOT KNOW YOU...QUESS WHAT, I LIKE IT THAT WAY! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

WEAK MINDED!...NOTHING TO DO WITH ME...GOT A BENG HONORS, MYSELF! ;)

WHEN YOU MENTION ' I type the way I speak! SHOULD THAT NOT READ, I HAVE TO SPEAK IT OUT REALLY LOUD AS I TYPE, OTHERWISE I GET REALLY CONFUSED...JUST A SUGGESTION! :D

''As you're trying feably to be funny/ clever I served with the Royal Marines not Army Roll Eyes More to the point why bother bringing that up here as I never?''

OK LETS WORK THIS ONE OUT (I CAN DRAW YOU A PICTURE IF THAT HELPS)...I DON'T KNOW YOU...MY ONLY SOURCE OF INFORMATION ABOUT YOU IS VIA THIS SITE....GUESS WHAT, YOU DID BRING THIS FACT UP WHEN YOU TOOK IT UPON YOURSELF TO CHASTISE SOME GUY ON THIS VERY SITE WHEN HE MENTIONED HE FAILED A MEDICAL FOR THE AIR FORCE.

YOU ARE CORRECT(ENOUGHT MONKEYS AND ALL THAT...TOO ABSTRACT?...SORRY! FEABLY MINDED JOKE!), IN THAT IT IS NOT MY PLACE TO REPREMAND YOU FOR YOUR ABRASIVE TONE TOWARDS SOME PEOPLES POSTS, I HOPED THAT WAS WHAT MODARATORS ARE FOR. :-/

FINALLY A FEW PEOPLE TODAY MENTIONED THAT IN FACT THEY THOUGHT IT WAS 'FUNNY'...REMEMBER WE ARE LAUGHTING AT YOU! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

LOVE AND PEACE!

FINBAR

Finbar - I'm glad your life is so empty that you need to discuss me while I'm not there- even if people were laughing 'at' me - I wasn't there so doesn't worry me :) But I am touched whilst you were suppost to be enjoying your day you thought of me (sorry I never repeated the thoughts:) ) [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Personally I couldn't give a hoot if I never met you so atleast we agree on something - I can assure you its no loss on my side!

No picture required (nor any requirement to SHOUT) as I do have an education I can read, write and even do maths! Fair enough I don't type or speak perfect Queens English but nevermind 8-)

As you'll see I am first to apologise if I do upset someone by accident or if what I have typed has been mis-interpreted. I am no keyboard warrior or whatever they're called. Yes I am blunt, can seem rude, opinionated but what you'll never find as I don't want to help you is this mug that will work all through the night to get someones bike fixed so they can do a meet, ride or trackday - build track bikes for people - going out of thier way to show people how to do stuff - giving parts away as someone needs them - never have I asked for payment, thanks or such like as all done as a mate and fellow biker [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

But I'll tell you what if I have pissed as many people off and unliked as you say - open a poll if more people want me to go I'll leave [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

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Originally Posted by Davey

Finbar - I'm glad your life is so empty that you need to discuss me while I'm not there- even if people were laughing 'at' me - I wasn't there so doesn't worry me :) But I am touched whilst you were suppost to be enjoying your day you thought of me (sorry I never repeated the thoughts:) ) [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Personally I couldn't give a hoot if I never met you so atleast we agree on something - I can assure you its no loss on my side!

No picture required (nor any requirement to SHOUT) as I do have an education I can read, write and even do maths! Fair enough I don't type or speak perfect Queens English but nevermind 8-)

As you'll see I am first to apologise if I do upset someone by accident or if what I have typed has been mis-interpreted. I am no keyboard warrior or whatever they're called. Yes I am blunt, can seem rude, opinionated but what you'll never find as I don't want to help you is this mug that will work all through the night to get someones bike fixed so they can do a meet, ride or trackday - build track bikes for people - going out of thier way to show people how to do stuff - giving parts away as someone needs them - never have I asked for payment, thanks or such like as all done as a mate and fellow biker [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

But I'll tell you what if I have pissed as many people off and unliked as you say - open a poll if more people want me to go I'll leave [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

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I Love you [s]Stu [/s]or should I say GW's ;D ;D

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Originally Posted by ONF1RE

I Love you [s]Stu [/s]or should I say GW's ;D ;D

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LOL ;D

I was thinking of you all day hun as I am a sucker for a uniform! :-* [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

I just wish you could not be so 'blunt' as sometimes things said in such a way can really maim people of a gentle disposition...not a problem for piss-taking gits like us...but not everyone has such thick skins! :(

Cheers for now, [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by finbar

I was thinking of you all day hun as I am a sucker for a uniform! :-* [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

I just wish you could not be so 'blunt' as sometimes things said in such a way can really maim people of a gentle disposition...not a problem for piss-taking gits like us...but not everyone has such thick skins! :(

Cheers for now, [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

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:-*

I will consider it ;) If I start typing in French or German that means I can't do it but fortunatly I cannot work out sarcasm in those languages so will be a straight answer :)

Finally...some forum love ;D

Get a room you two :D