:o theres fast U-turns?? ;D wouldn't even try that,Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWGraeme
cheers for the comments guys
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:o theres fast U-turns?? ;D wouldn't even try that,Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWGraeme
cheers for the comments guys
That's if you believe in Noah's Ark. And Titanic didn't sink itself, it was the icebergs fault ;D ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by monday21
Being serious, I think the problem is how do you decide whether advice is good or bad, if you don't know enough to have asked the question in the first place? That's why I do think it important to make your own due digilence in these matters, take advice carefully and act upon it only if you're sure and/or are willing to accept the consequences.
That's if you believe in Noah's Ark. And Titanic didn't sink itself, it was the icebergs fault ;D ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BMWGraeme
Being serious, I think the problem is how do you decide whether advice is good or bad, if you don't know enough to have asked the question in the first place? That's why I do think it important to make your own due digilence in these matters, take advice carefully and act upon it only if you're sure and/or are willing to accept the consequences.[/quote]
Graeme, I’ll concede that Noah’s Ark is probably a myth, but the sinking of the Titanic wasn’t the iceberg’s fault – it was the Captain’s, for not avoiding it. ;D :P
With nearly a century of motorcycling under our combined belts, we must be doing summit right. ;)
Of course you are right, sometimes it's very difficult to sift the bad advice from the good. Unfortunately, most of us learn through our own mistakes.
:o theres fast U-turns?? ;D wouldn't even try that,Quote:
Originally Posted by porkies
cheers for the comments guys[/quote]
I think that's what they call moto gymkhana?
That's if you believe in Noah's Ark. And Titanic didn't sink itself, it was the icebergs fault ;D ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by monday21
Being serious, I think the problem is how do you decide whether advice is good or bad, if you don't know enough to have asked the question in the first place? That's why I do think it important to make your own due digilence in these matters, take advice carefully and act upon it only if you're sure and/or are willing to accept the consequences.[/quote]
Graeme, I’ll concede that Noah’s Ark is probably a myth, but the sinking of the Titanic wasn’t the iceberg’s fault – it was the Captain’s, for not avoiding it. ;D :P
With nearly a century of motorcycling under our combined belts, we must be doing summit right. ;)
Of course you are right, sometimes it's very difficult to sift the bad advice from the good. Unfortunately, most of us learn through our own mistakes.
[/quote]
By my reckoning then Ken, that makes you 82 years old ;D ;)
Thought that one might smoke you out. Lol ;D
Well let's say a long time then. ;D
When I first joined this forum, I felt that there were those who gave their advice, without being in a knowledgeable enough position to do so. Some of the advice was not only unconstructive, but sometimes borderline dangerous. I don't pretend to know everything, but my career has been built around trying to improve myself and my own riding, so that I may pass the knowledge on to others. I've been riding 31 years now (about time I stopped for fuel), been instructing for 18 years, have done race schools, track days, club racing, track tuition, advanced riding courses, DSA instructor courses, Police training, and have done all the hooligan things (on private land) like wheelies, stoppies, knee-down, side saddle, riding backwards, donuts, blah, blah, etc. Each thing I've been involved with has made me a better rider, because I've approached with the attitude of improving my own riding. I'll never be the best rider in the world, but I'll keep trying.
Along the way, I've had many people try to impress me with their riding skills (quite often crap), and their knowledge (not always the best). They too, may have the best intentions, but I feel you're only placed to give advice when your full time job/career/hobby is all about finding the best way to ride a bike. Every time someone has told me 'the best way' of doing something, I've analized it from every angle before making up my own mind as to whether it really is the best way. I don't want to come across as big headed or preachy, I just know the right way to do things.
This thread was started with the intention of passing on as much knowledge as I can. I hope it's taken in the context. And if anyone has differing opinions, I'll be happy to hear them, as long they're happy to hear my repost.
Let's make biking fun and safe... :)
20. Where are you looking? If it's not where the corner is going, you're not going round the corner. The biggest factor as a novice rider is 'where you're looking'. You should be looking at the 'vanishing point' or the path that leads you there. If you imagine a line or path that leads you to the vanishing point, then you will follow that path. If you look at the white line, you'll drift towards the line. If you look at the kerb, you'll drift towards the kerb. If you look at that dead badger, you'll run over the dead badger... Where you look, is where you go. However, it's one of our 'panic reactions' to look where you 'think' you're going to go, as opposed to where you 'want' to go. Force yourself to look at the vanishing point, even when things are going wrong in the bend. You've got a good chance you'll still make the corner. These days, I spend very little time looking at the road surface in front of my front wheel. Normally if you see something coming up by then, it's too late anyway. You need to spot hazards early, to be able to do something about them. The later you spot them, the more violent the evasive reaction has to be, and the less chance you've got of avoiding it. And when you look into a bend, do it with your head, as well as your eyes. Pointing your eyes in the right direction is important, but equally pointing your head in the same direction is just as important. In fact, why not try over-doing it to begin with. Really point your head into a corner, and it'll seem so easy to get around that bend, compared with entering a bend with your head in the straight-ahead position.
I wasn't looking at that doggy do-do's when I landed in it when practicing u-turns Mark...I couldnt even see it hehehe
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
p.s. re your comment ;
Along the way, I've had many people try to impress me with their riding skills (quite often crap),
I bet I impressed you with the above didnt I hehehe ;) ;)
Counter-steering is next... 8-)
Your riding always impressed me Tina, because you tried so hard... :-*Quote:
Originally Posted by Tina
You just didn't smell too nice... ;D
Fantastic advice as always.
Totally agree with that lot... 8-)Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWGraeme
Totally agree with that lot... 8-)[/quote]Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Able
Sorry Mark, but I disagree. I think your free advice is worth alot more than nothing. :P ;D
i've no problem with your advice (and not just because i'm a novice) it makes good reading and sense when i put it in to practise, it's invaluable reading for me, with you sharing your many years of knowledge for which I and others are greatful, i just have to ask questions to help me understand...hope they weren't taken out of context or misconstrued and caused you to get >:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Able
respect the effort you put in to this thread [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Your riding always impressed me Tina, because you tried so hard... :-*Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Able
You just didn't smell too nice... ;D[/quote]
Hehehehe....it was the funniest of my mini 'offs' I think....hehehe (and smelliest) lol ;D ;D :D ;D
And so say all of us.
Doing myself out of a job here Ken... ;D
Any donations to the 'Buying a Dodge Charger for the nice instructor' fund, will be gratefully received... ;D ;)
i've no problem with your advice (and not just because i'm a novice) it makes good reading and sense when i put it in to practise, it's invaluable reading for me, with you sharing your many years of knowledge for which I and others are greatful, i just have to ask questions to help me understand...hope they weren't taken out of context or misconstrued and caused you to get >:(Quote:
Originally Posted by porkies
respect the effort you put in to this thread [smiley=thumbsup.gif][/quote]
Not at all mate. Ask as many questions as you want. And don't think you're asking stupid questions either, because there's probably someone else on here wondering the same thing... ;)
Some useful advice on this thread that's for sure. When I started riding 34 years ago none of this was available and training was non-existant in my experience. I could quote something along the lines of "You have never had it so good..." but that might wake Ken up :P ;D
Quite simply, i love this thread. Thanks Mark. :)
Ive found myself moving my head more, not just turning it but also whilst in the bend tilting my head too (almost like there is a spirt level on my forehead) bizare as it may seem it does make a more stable bend and at higher speeds too.. 8-)
however I do find it really hard to relax and do this when cold, I find myself saying to myself ' except the cold and relax' and your body seems to shudder and then warm !!!!
wierd as it sounds I know
PS cheers Mark for this thread, the tips are brill :D
just found this thread mark and has given me a idea. what about an eve or sat/ ;) sun giving a open chat by yourself about all these riding skills, if theres enought interested. of course at the school and a small fee, say £5-or so from all to cover your time. might even be able to do bbq as well. anyone think this a good idea or not.
now thats a good idea 8-)Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzie
did someone say countersteering ;)
Don't use just the front brake on wet grass :o
21. Counter-steering. Here we go then (got my beer in hand, cos this will be a long one). We all counter-steer. You may not even know what counter-steering is, but you have used it. Fact: you cannot lean a bike to any degree without counter-steering. Without getting into the technical side, just try it. When you come to a left-hand bend, gently apply pressure (push forward) on the left handlebar. Result: the bike leans left. When you come to a right-hand bend, apply pressure to the right handlebar. Result: the bike leans right. The more pressure you apply, the more it leans. The quicker you apply the pressure, the quicker it leans. It doesn't matter if the bike is already leaning, apply more pressure and it'll lean more. Now this should be a 'forward' push on the bar, not a 'downward' push, so make sure your arms are flexed at the elbows, and you're not riding straight armed with your elbows locked.
a) You need to counter-steer to start the lean. You should choose the exact moment you want to lean, then push. Then, to keep the bike leaned over, you need to keep some pressure on the bar. As soon as you start to relax the pressure, the bike starts to right itself.
b) To lean quickly, push quickly. It feels a little scary at first, to feel the bike suddenly drop into a corner, but nothing bad is going to happen. You cannot make a bike lose grip by leaning too quickly. The top racers can reach the lean-angle limit in less than half a second. It's not because their bikes are better than ours, or that they possess some God-like force that allows them to do it. They have become comfortable with the bike leaning quickly, without getting into a panic. Try small pushes on the bars to begin with, so you get used to a more sudden change of direction. Then build up into a more dramatic lean as you get used to having the bike drop into the corner quicker.
c) Don't get caught out by a corner that tightens up. The normal reaction would be to slow down (not good in a bend), tense up on the bars (stopping you from steering), and look where you think you're going to go (which is not normally where you want to go). As the bend tightens, start increasing the pressure on the inside bar to get the bike leaning more, whilst keeping your focus on the vanishing point, and keeping a little power on. You've got a greatly increased chance of getting around that bend. To practice, on an easy bend that you know well, try not leaning enough to begin with, then tighten the turn by pushing more on the bar. Once you've done it once, you'll realise you can alter your lean-angle mid-corner, without upsetting the bike. If ever you get caught out by a tightening (decreasing radius) bend, you may find yourself reacting in the right manner.
d) Changing direction just takes a nudge on the opposite bar. It doesn't matter which way the bike is leaning, if you push on the opposite handlebar, the bike will instantly pick itself up and lean the opposite way. So for example, if the bike is leaning to the right, if you push on the left bar, it will stand up and lean over to the left, and vice versa. The racers change direction so quickly through a chicane, all done by pushing on one bar, then the other, then the other.
e) It takes more effort, the faster you go. A bike stays upright because the wheels act as gyroscopes. The faster you go, the more gyro affect there is, and the more stable the bike becomes. The slower you go, there's less gyro affect, and the bike becomes more and more difficult to keep upright. So leaning into slow corners takes very little effort on the handlebars. Whereas, leaning into high-speed bends can take an awful lot of effort to upset the gyros. I recall racing at Thruxton on my R1, entering 'Church' at such a speed, I'd have to push on the inside bar, and also pull the outside bar to get the bike to lean in. It takes a lot of effort to upset those gyros when they're spinning at 140mph!
Leaning your bodyweight off the side has very little affect on changing a bike's direction of travel. Neither does putting your weight on one footpeg or the other. Neither does sticking your knee out. You have to counter-steer.
The master of counter-steering is Keith Code, who runs the California Superbike School, and has written the 'Twist of the Wrist' books. If you're really fascinated by the subject, and want to learn more, get yourself 'Twist of the Wrist II' from Amazon.
Bring on the questions... :)
Great write up again please keep up the good work.
I must be backwards because I pull rather than push. Obviously on the other bar ;D Too old to change now ;)
when your comfy on your bike this does feel wierd. And I remember when you said about this in our lesson and trying to understand it. I think the bigger and heavier the bike the easier this is to feel and understand.
Brilliant explaination Mark and thanks
Trust me it works on all bikes, even scooters!!! The smaller the bike the less the input needs to be so you can get away with "steering" round bends. On the big bikes you need the gyroscopic couple of the wheels to help, so even if you are not concious of it, you are probably countersteering. If you apply countersteering to smaller bikes........ YIPPPEEEEEEEEEEEE................................. ... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 8_ball
22. Whiffy gloves? After this latest spell of disgusting bloody weather, it reminded me how whiffy gloves can get after being soaked and then dried out in the airing cupboard. Over the years, I've tried all sorts of things to stop them stinking, but mostly gave up and threw them away if I couldn't stand the stink anymore. Johnson's Baby Talc is the best solution I found. Once dry, shake a little in, and your hands will come out smelling like a baby's bum.
Until they get wet again and then what a mess :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Able
Frebreeze? :-/
That stuff is a godsend. I don't know if you've ever tried putting a back protector in a washing machine.....Quote:
Originally Posted by porkies
i wasn't sure if it would work long term for clothing or the 'funk' would win the smell war?
as wierd as this sounds the smell is the bacteria build up in the cloth or leather from sweat, you can get shoe deo' made by odor eaters the insole people and this helps.
Or you can do what I do and put your gloves in a bag and pop them in the freezer.. the cold kills the bacteria !!! and stops it smelling. when you thaw them out do this slowly and out of the bag so the leather can breathe again. works best for summer gloves. 8-)
the wife would love that! helmet tucked up in the duvet to keep it safe and gloves chilling in the freezer! so leaving them in a cold garage should have same effect to a degree then i guess?
Far better than baby talc for de-stinking gloves.Quote:
Originally Posted by porkies
Ok guys, I'm with you on this. The only thing with Fabreze is that you have to wait for it to dry, whereas a little talc means you can wear straight away.