SMIDSY..... why we're not seen.

Tiz good this has turned into an interesting debate with different opinions shared by all.

Well done to your other half who passed his DAS and then did the advanced. You say driving experiance - is that riding experiance?
All the training out there is just that - "training" - you cannot give anyone the knowledge of many years of experiance. In fact experiance makes you think "what could happen" when you go to make a manouvre. In that split second you must weigh up the odds of what could happen or not and wether you should take the risk.

Now where we draw the risk line on a sliding scale will be different for all of us. A person with many years of experiance may draw that line at 75% safe (scale of 1 to 100) whereas a rider with little experiance will draw the risk line at 40% safe. Trouble is the rider with no experiance does not know he has drawn that line there.

BANG - CRASH.... :o .. You are on the ground! :'(

Accidents happen that quick, they always happen when you least expect them. You are riding past a wood at 50mph and a deer jumped out and you hit it.

On my sliding scale I had to weigh up the risk of riding down that nice empty road past that wood. I can hurtle down it at a ton because it is nice and empty! Yippee!

Many years ago me and the missus were going to Chippenham past Derry hill when 3 deer shot out of the bushes in front of me. Does that past experiance temper my riding down to 50mph. Some days it does and some it will not

If I wanted very little risk I would have had to temper my riding to 10mph which would be plainly daft and embarressing.. :-[ :-[ :-[
The deer could still have jumped over the hedge and landed on top of me instead.. :D

Back in the 80's a mate of mine was off to work at Honda when a deer jumped out in front of him. He did an emergency stop and though "that was close!"
A split second later another one came over the hedge and landed on top of him breaking his shoulder.

EXPERIANCE point - deer seldomly cross roads alone. If one crosses in front of you then watch out for more.

Sorry but am I rambling again... :-[

What was this thread about again?

Oh yeah, how our eyes play tricks on us.
Trouble is, it's preaching to the converted. We all know we're vulnerable it's other road users that need to be told too.
The info in the original post was a real....what's the phrase?....Eye opener! And every road user needs to be aware of this.

No No - you miss my point. The original topic started off as a fighter pilot telling why the Smidsy's can happen and then went on to tell you how to protect yourself - NOT expect the driver of the other vehicle to have seen you

Obviously you think everyone on the site is an expert rider but I did a short ride with the WB a few years back and discovered the ride had riders with a lot of experiance mixed with a fair few that lacked experiance having not long been on the road with some of the risks they took clearly on view. The experts were all at the front!

Anyway - trying not to preach - would it be an idea to take a few photos of sections of road and then describe the experiances some of us older riders may have had
on those roads. Newbies may find them informative

“The experts were all at the front!”

Del, how did you observe those riding behind you to enable you to reach this conclusion?
:-/

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I would not recommend anyone to do it on purpose

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wrt - locking up the front brake.
There are some bike days at Castle Coombe (Rider performace days?) that teach you this sort of thing under controlled conditions. Doesn't seem like a bad idea to me with the right conditions (track in this case), protection and tuition.

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You say driving experiance - is that riding experiance?

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No, I meant driving as a car driver for decades. No previous motorbike experience, but has proven he was very capabale of doing it (passed everything first time, no accidents in the last 3 years, no points ever in decades etc.). I'm not saying everyone is as capable, I'm just saying that if you ban something because it's bad for SOME people then you restrict choice for those who are perfectly capable and I'm suprised to see that kind of "nanny state" attitiude from people who are usually very pro choice especially on the subject of the amount of risk we take personally.

If you stop people with no dependents doing DAS then should you stop people with kids going to war? Just saying. We allow people to do lots more risky things than DAS like climbing mountains, diving with sharks, going to war etc.

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All the training out there is just that - "training" - you cannot give anyone the knowledge of many years of experiance.

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I am not sure I agree, although I don't want to get hung up over words.
I have personally gained loads of "experience" through the advanced "training" I got. I was the sort of rider that used to do a 15 mile commute only on the same roads and would take the car/train if the weather was bad.
I then signed up for an IAM course which gave me a reason that I HAD to go out in bad weather and also took me on all sorts of roads which I'd never been on before including some with moss, grass and mud down them which I never would have dreamed of doing before.
Now I don't know what word you want to use to describe it and I don't really care about that, but by signing up to some "training" I managed to obtain a load of experience in a relatively organised, guided and safe fashion as someone more experienced was planning my "training" needs for me.
One of the reasons I like doing tutoring is that it makes me go out in the wet and cold and keep my skills up and many of us would not decide to go out on cold/wet days otherwise.
So I don't want to argue over semantics, but signing up and agreeing to do some "training" can bring you loads of experience. Now you could do that on your own but how many people would plan/commit to cold/wet days?

On a positive note - North Wilts RoADAR (Rospa Advanced driver and riders) are running a session on 9th September on this subject given by one of our bike tutors who happens to be an experienced trainer and psycologist. It will contain video and small group discussions. This group is both a car & bike group so will contain both sides of the discussion.

Location will be Liddington Village hall near J16 M4.

Guests are welcome and there is no pressure to join the group (although names are usually taken in case there is a fire).

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Originally Posted by Ducatista

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I would not recommend anyone to do it on purpose

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wrt - locking up the front brake.
There are some bike days at Castle Coombe (Rider performace days?) that teach you this sort of thing under controlled conditions. Doesn't seem like a bad idea to me with the right conditions (track in this case), protection and tuition.

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The context I was using involved crashing into a car.... that's why I suggested you don't try it for real.

Off road skills training days such as with BMW, teach you about locking the front up as well - I keep promising myself a weekend in the mud, just haven't got round to it. This is the area I personally feel weak on i.e bike control on gravel, sand, mud, diesel, grass etc., and I think learning those skills off road would help my road riding. I did similar in the car by spending a day on a skidpan and its helped my car control when its icy enormously.

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The context I was using involved crashing into a car.... that's why I suggested you don't try it for real.

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Totally agree, about not trying these things out on the road.
Just thought I'd mention that proper instruction is available in a safe environment because it would never occur to me to try that kind of thing at all but it does have some benefits.

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Originally Posted by monday21

“The experts were all at the front!”

Del, how did you observe those riding behind you to enable you to reach this conclusion?
:-/

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Because I started at the front and let everyone past. Experts generally like to impress others