LOL the alternatives to capitalism are worse...for who?
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LOL the alternatives to capitalism are worse...for who?
Don’t get me started – worse for the top 10 per cent (or less) of the world’s population. The “Something for nothing” brigade like Cameron’s neighbour who inherited his father’s wealth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch9128
Did anyone watch panorama about the Greek situation on Monday night? One economist reckoned that if the top earners paid all the tax they were due, (not much different from here) Greece would virtually be clear of its current debt. One little elderly lady who’s family were receiving food from charity said,” Greece was better off under the ‘Generals.'
Capitalism: Even the Earth's atmosphere is reduced to a commodity to be bought and sold on the 'free' market.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...uring-industry
So G3o, you DIDN'T advise your bank of a change of address and you're complaining that they won't send a new card to an address that they've never heard of...? Maybe if they'd been able to contact you they could have cleared up the suspicious activity from the US on your account and all would have been fine, or perhaps you'd have been happier for them to simply shrug and not bother about some fraudster stitching you up from across the pond? You can't have it all mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoYou
Get yourself a credit card and only use if for emergencies, such as when your cashpoint/charge card doesn't work - simples! ;) 8-)
“No-one would be more delighted than me to be proved wrong about that as I spend my days sorting out the issues with less experienced s/w professionals in India.”
“We may have to agree to disagree on that one, but my experience is that people generally don't chose to pay 5 times the price for something.”
Ducatista, If the jobs under discussion had not been outsourced RBS would not be paying 5 times more in wages like for like, because by your own admission your counterparts in India are “less experienced”. And of course there is the additional cost to the bank to pay more highly skilled staff like you to “sort out the issues” to which you refer.
I recall having a similar discussion with the proprietor of a local hardware shop a few years ago. I bought a tin opener from his shop for a £1. On my return home I tried to open a tin of soup with the said opener, but to no avail. The next day I returned it to the shop owner, who said, “Well what do you expect, it only cost you a £1.” To which I replied, “Well what would you expect a tin opener to do?”
The same applies to the RBS, pointless saving on the wage bill if your product ends up being ‘not fit for purpose’ as it is now.
So G3o, you DIDN'T advise your bank of a change of address and you're complaining that they won't send a new card to an address that they've never heard of...? Maybe if they'd been able to contact you they could have cleared up the suspicious activity from the US on your account and all would have been fine, or perhaps you'd have been happier for them to simply shrug and not bother about some fraudster stitching you up from across the pond? You can't have it all mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty
Get yourself a credit card and only use if for emergencies, such as when your cashpoint/charge card doesn't work - simples! ;) 8-)[/quote]
Oh i know i was in the wrong for not informing them of a change of address sooner, however when i ask them if i can change my registered address before they send me a new card and they say no...
As for not being able to contact me, they have two phone numbers for me, and my email address. I know they have them because i've been contacted on all of them at one point or another in the past.
I'm not saying i don't want them to try and prevent fraud, i'm very thankful that they didn't flag it up etc.etc. but to not notify me of it when they have several means to do so... just seems a tad off to me
Hi Ken,Quote:
Ducatista, If the jobs under discussion had not been outsourced RBS would not be paying 5 times more in wages like for like
I've been working in a business that has been using Indian resources for getting on for 10 years.
I can confirm that in our experience the current ratio of 5 times for salary is correct.
I suspect the actual ratio for the total costs to the business may well be higher because on the whole the benefits we get in the UK - like sickness, pensions etc are better that india, but I can't give a figure other than 1:5.
No you don't get like for like. That's not how it works.
You don't replace a £50K Software engineer in the UK with 20 years experience with someone in India with 20 years experience because that resource profile does not exist in India. They get replaced with junior resources.
Then you keep a smaller number of experienced people in the UK to guide them and tell them what to do. Those are the people that didn't lose their jobs and that's pretty much what I do.
So I agree it's not a like for like comparison.
The resources are not being replaced like for like, you're getting less experienced resources and lower qualified resources.
This is what has been happening in IT and probably other professions as well for the past 10 years.
It's anything but "like for like".
It's like changing a Rolls Royce for a Ford Fiesta, but if your requirement is only to get from A to B then for most people it will do.
If it wouldn't do then our customers would have communicated that to us over the last 10 years.
No that's not an additional cost.Quote:
And of course there is the additional cost to the bank to pay more highly skilled staff like you to “sort out the issues” to which you refer.
Those people had jobs before and are the ones that aren't being made redundant.
It's not additional staff, although I accept the entire wage bill might not be 5 times, it might be 3.5 or 4 times by the time you take into account the UK staff.
Unfortunately the fact is that the majority of the time it does the job adequately. That's my experience of the last 10 years.Quote:
“Well what do you expect, it only cost you a £1.”
That's not just my opinion and experience, that the business decision of a many companies who put their money where their mouth is and their reputation on the line.
I agree in this individual case it has gone badly wrong.Quote:
The same applies to the RBS, pointless saving on the wage bill if your product ends up being ‘not fit for purpose’ as it is now.
But the fact is there are many comapnies like mine who've been doing it for decades where it works on the whole, so they are going to carry on doing it.
This is one (really bad) incident, but in the vast majority of case it's working satisfactorily.
If one person crashed their motorcycle really badly would you stop riding yours? If there was a plane crash would you stop flying? If you got food poisoning would you stop eating?
We don't actually know fully what happened here, so I don't think we I can judge, but I don't think that businesses will stop outsourcing just because there has been one awful incident, similar to the fact that planes or people don't stop flying when there is a plane crash and let's face it no one was killed or physically harmed (although I know a few spent the weekend in a prison cell due to lack of bail).
Since outsourcing started, I have been put at risk of redundancy 3 times. I deal with Indian resources everyday who are in a different timezone, don't always communicate well in English, aren't as experienced and have different values.
I deal with these issues every single day.
I would love to turn the clock back.
But I've told you why I dont't think it will change on the whole and that's because on the whole it does the job. A token gesture from Nat West would not suprise me though e.g. they might say all future s/w upgrades will be done in the UK to appease customers, but still leave the bulk of the development staff in India.
“Unfortunately the alternatives to Capitalism are much worse, so whilst it's not perfect we have a lot of freedom, choice and democracy to be thankful for.”
Ducatista, I have really enjoyed debating this very complex issue with you and in the main, agree with most of what you say. You are obviously more conversant with the day-to-day nuts and bolts of how the banking sector operates than me. For me however, it’s more about the unregulated free global market and the role of the banks.
IMHO, Capitalism and Democracy go together like oil and water and I find it hard to think of a clearer oxymoron. The way in which RBS have operated pre and post bail-out demonstrates this perfectly.
In all probability The RBS would no longer be in existence if it were not for the generosity of the UK taxpayer, yet our elected representatives are more or less completely powerless in any decision making process at the bank. Voice in the wilderness, Vince Cable should be commended for making a lot of noise, but even he must of realised deep down, he was ‘p*ssing against the wind’.
While I feel for the RBS customers, I am heartened by the fact that this latest banking fiasco has led to more and more ordinary people asking searching questions.
Again, an oxymoron, but even PM Cameron is talking about, “Caring Capitalism” ;D :P
This is after our politicians promised a clamp-down and more regulation of the Banks at the time of the economic collapse;
Britain's biggest banks are facing the threat of a criminal investigation over the rate-rigging scandal that could cost the industry billions of pounds.
The Treasury has started to look at strengthening criminal sanctions for those responsible for market abuse after Barclays was fined £290 million by UK and US regulators for manipulating the rate at which banks lend to each other.
HSBC and taxpayer-backed Royal Bank of Scotland are among several other lenders being investigated by the City watchdog for fixing the interbank lending figures that affect millions of homeowners and small firms.
Serious Fraud Office investigators are in talks with the Financial Services Authority (FSA) over the scandal while pressure is mounting on Barclays chief executive Bob Diamond to stand down.
In the wake of this, the latest of a long list of banking scandals, expect to see a lot of noise and political point scoring from the powerless politicians, a few ‘sacrificial scapegoats’ hung out to dry. Then, when the media eye wanders away from the concrete jungle in Canary Wharf, business as usual will return.
If you still have got any doubts as to who is really running this country, I’ll bail-out (excuse the pun) with the following teaser?
Should the ‘toothless tiger’ of a financial regulator discover irregularities at any of the banks which received public money, who do you think will pay the imposed fines which will inevitably follow?
.
Looking on the bright side, I haven't spent any cash this week. Having said that I did have to empty my pockets to give my daughter some petrol money ;D That always hurts!
Ducatista,
Love the cartoon.
Recent revelations are just the tip of the iceberg and there is a lot more to come.
To put it in to perspective in terms of the punishment fitting the crime, the fine imposed on Barclays is like a mass-murderer carrying out 8 hours community service for his/her crimes. Just my personal opinion, not a statement of fact.
Anarchy in the UK?