Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch9128
[quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/31#31 date=1347349214][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/30#30 date=1347343148][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/27#27 date=1347310910][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/22#22 date=1347302618][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/18#18 date=1347298015][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/17#17 date=1347297695]... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
[/quote]
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...t/your-rights/[/quote]
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.[/quote]
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.[/quote]
My view, and I'm not a solicitor although I have studied law as part of what I do, is that the site is misleading. It doesn't refer to the actual relevant legislation, or any section of the legislation which is the only thing you can rely on. My memory isnt that bad and I seem to recall the actual legislation refers to 'reasonable' but I certainly dont recall reasonable time periods being defined.
Take a practical example - a dealer has an old p/ex hanging around say a 50cc moped and says you can have it for £200 (and that is a real example by the way) 5 1/2 months later you've covered 6,000 miles on it (and that isnt a real example) and the engine goes bang do you really think any Court in England is going to tell the seller that the buyer can have a refund?
[/quote]
Your view is irrelevant in law, here is the actual legislation from parliament:
Where faulty goods are returned within the first six months of purchase, the consumer has the benefit of a presumption that the goods were faulty when delivered (i.e. the
2 Section 2 , Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994
3 Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
4
consumer will be entitled to a remedy). If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.
[/quote]
I still cant see where in the legislation it states a blanket 6 months. We'll agree to disgree.
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz
Just to let you all know.
Spoken to them quoted the sales of goods act, trading standards and distance selling regs and they are going to pick the bike up and repair it and bring it back all free of charge as a "Good Will Gesture" cough cough!
Result! I also qouted one of the parts that needs replacing (the part no and price at £356.62) just for one of the probs and he shut up! ;D ;D
;D
FANTASTIC NEWS :) :)
I think a firm call generally does the trick.
At least you didn't have to do what I did - I bought a car a few years ago which was ''not fit for purpose''. I called the garage to agree an amicable settlement and was told to #### off on the phone by the seller :o Not best pleased I ordered a tow truck, stuck a note inside the car on the windscreen explaining what had happened in bold letters and got the tow truck to deposit the car on the forecourt and left it there locked up...got a full refund later than day ;D
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
[quote author=Maz link=1347285950/32#32 date=1347353135]Just to let you all know.
Spoken to them quoted the sales of goods act, trading standards and distance selling regs and they are going to pick the bike up and repair it and bring it back all free of charge as a "Good Will Gesture" cough cough!
Result! I also qouted one of the parts that needs replacing (the part no and price at £356.62) just for one of the probs and he shut up! ;D ;D
;D
FANTASTIC NEWS :) :)
I think a firm call generally does the trick.
At least you didn't have to do what I did - I bought a car a few years ago which was ''not fit for purpose''. I called the garage to agree an amicable settlement and was told to #### off on the phone by the seller :o Not best pleased I ordered a tow truck, stuck a note inside the car on the windscreen explaining what had happened in bold letters and got the tow truck to deposit the car on the forecourt and left it there locked up...got a full refund later than day ;D
[/quote]
Wow, thats great! ;D I mean the whole placing the car of the forecourt!
Not many think of that like! I would have loved to be a fly on the wall that day!
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
[quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/34#34 date=1347353822][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/31#31 date=1347349214][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/30#30 date=1347343148][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/27#27 date=1347310910][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/22#22 date=1347302618][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/18#18 date=1347298015][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/17#17 date=1347297695]... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
[/quote]
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...t/your-rights/[/quote]
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.[/quote]
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.[/quote]
My view, and I'm not a solicitor although I have studied law as part of what I do, is that the site is misleading. It doesn't refer to the actual relevant legislation, or any section of the legislation which is the only thing you can rely on. My memory isnt that bad and I seem to recall the actual legislation refers to 'reasonable' but I certainly dont recall reasonable time periods being defined.
Take a practical example - a dealer has an old p/ex hanging around say a 50cc moped and says you can have it for £200 (and that is a real example by the way) 5 1/2 months later you've covered 6,000 miles on it (and that isnt a real example) and the engine goes bang do you really think any Court in England is going to tell the seller that the buyer can have a refund?
[/quote]
Your view is irrelevant in law, here is the actual legislation from parliament:
Where faulty goods are returned within the first six months of purchase, the consumer has the benefit of a presumption that the goods were faulty when delivered (i.e. the
2 Section 2 , Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994
3 Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
4
consumer will be entitled to a remedy). If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.
[/quote]
I still cant see where in the legislation it states a blanket 6 months. We'll agree to disgree.
[/quote]
No we won't, you're being obtuse. The fact it states the onus is on the seller to prove the fault wasn't there at point of sale in the first 6 months, is in fact an implied 6 month warranty.
http://www.saconsumerprotectionact.c...?f=7&t=191
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch9128
[quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/40#40 date=1347354837][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/34#34 date=1347353822][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/31#31 date=1347349214][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/30#30 date=1347343148][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/27#27 date=1347310910][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/22#22 date=1347302618][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/18#18 date=1347298015][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/17#17 date=1347297695]... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
[/quote]
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...t/your-rights/[/quote]
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.[/quote]
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.[/quote]
My view, and I'm not a solicitor although I have studied law as part of what I do, is that the site is misleading. It doesn't refer to the actual relevant legislation, or any section of the legislation which is the only thing you can rely on. My memory isnt that bad and I seem to recall the actual legislation refers to 'reasonable' but I certainly dont recall reasonable time periods being defined.
Take a practical example - a dealer has an old p/ex hanging around say a 50cc moped and says you can have it for £200 (and that is a real example by the way) 5 1/2 months later you've covered 6,000 miles on it (and that isnt a real example) and the engine goes bang do you really think any Court in England is going to tell the seller that the buyer can have a refund?
[/quote]
Your view is irrelevant in law, here is the actual legislation from parliament:
Where faulty goods are returned within the first six months of purchase, the consumer has the benefit of a presumption that the goods were faulty when delivered (i.e. the
2 Section 2 , Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994
3 Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
4
consumer will be entitled to a remedy). If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.
[/quote]
I still cant see where in the legislation it states a blanket 6 months. We'll agree to disgree.
[/quote]
No we won't. The fact it states the onus is on the seller to prove the fault wasn't there at point of sale in the first 6 months, is in fact an implied 6 month warranty.
http://www.saconsumerprotectionact.c...?f=7&t=191[/quote]
Umm fine it we were talking about South Africa ::)
Copy and paste the legislation which applies in England and you will have my humble apologies but until then, no we dont agree.
Not that it matters as Maz has a great resolution here.
I deal with tax legislation all the time and rarely trust things I see on the net which attempt to summarise and intepret legislation.
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz
[quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/41#41 date=1347355200][quote author=Maz link=1347285950/32#32 date=1347353135]Just to let you all know.
Spoken to them quoted the sales of goods act, trading standards and distance selling regs and they are going to pick the bike up and repair it and bring it back all free of charge as a "Good Will Gesture" cough cough!
Result! I also qouted one of the parts that needs replacing (the part no and price at £356.62) just for one of the probs and he shut up! ;D ;D
;D
FANTASTIC NEWS :) :)
I think a firm call generally does the trick.
At least you didn't have to do what I did - I bought a car a few years ago which was ''not fit for purpose''. I called the garage to agree an amicable settlement and was told to #### off on the phone by the seller :o Not best pleased I ordered a tow truck, stuck a note inside the car on the windscreen explaining what had happened in bold letters and got the tow truck to deposit the car on the forecourt and left it there locked up...got a full refund later than day ;D
[/quote]
Wow, thats great! ;D I mean the whole placing the car of the forecourt!
Not many think of that like! I would have loved to be a fly on the wall that day![/quote]
It was brilliant.
The nice saleman that actually told me to f### ### when I called them when I had been nothing but polite and courteous on the phone didnt even have the bottle to come and see me face to face.
Daft thing was I would have happily agreed a fair settlement with them; I wasnt after a full refund but being told to #### ### made me see red!
The truck driver thought it was brilliant too ;D ;D
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
[quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/43#43 date=1347356431][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/40#40 date=1347354837][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/34#34 date=1347353822][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/31#31 date=1347349214][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/30#30 date=1347343148][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/27#27 date=1347310910][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/22#22 date=1347302618][quote author=Nikki link=1347285950/18#18 date=1347298015][quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/17#17 date=1347297695]... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
[/quote]
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...t/your-rights/[/quote]
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.[/quote]
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.[/quote]
My view, and I'm not a solicitor although I have studied law as part of what I do, is that the site is misleading. It doesn't refer to the actual relevant legislation, or any section of the legislation which is the only thing you can rely on. My memory isnt that bad and I seem to recall the actual legislation refers to 'reasonable' but I certainly dont recall reasonable time periods being defined.
Take a practical example - a dealer has an old p/ex hanging around say a 50cc moped and says you can have it for £200 (and that is a real example by the way) 5 1/2 months later you've covered 6,000 miles on it (and that isnt a real example) and the engine goes bang do you really think any Court in England is going to tell the seller that the buyer can have a refund?
[/quote]
Your view is irrelevant in law, here is the actual legislation from parliament:
Where faulty goods are returned within the first six months of purchase, the consumer has the benefit of a presumption that the goods were faulty when delivered (i.e. the
2 Section 2 , Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994
3 Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
4
consumer will be entitled to a remedy). If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.
[/quote]
I still cant see where in the legislation it states a blanket 6 months. We'll agree to disgree.
[/quote]
No we won't. The fact it states the onus is on the seller to prove the fault wasn't there at point of sale in the first 6 months, is in fact an implied 6 month warranty.
http://www.saconsumerprotectionact.c...?f=7&t=191[/quote]
Umm fine it we were talking about South Africa ::)
Copy and paste the legislation which applies in England and you will have my humble apologies but until then, no we dont agree.
Not that it matters as Maz has a great resolution here.
I deal with tax legislation all the time and rarely trust things I see on the net which attempt to summarise and intepret legislation.[/quote]
Buggers, OK here, http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan..._is_faulty.htm
This is from Citizens advice that is linked from the Direct.gov consumer rights site.
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
[/quote]
Buggers, OK here, http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan..._is_faulty.htm
This is from Citizens advice that is linked from the Direct.gov consumer rights site.[/quote]
That's still not the actual legislation - it's an interpretation and I note quite a few references to ''you may get' in it too ::)
I honestly do not believe their is any clause in the legislation which categorically states this six month time period.
Think about it, it would be unjust and impractical.
Prove me wrong with the actual legislation.
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Nikki are you a dealer? I really can't see how protection for consumers is unfair. I have already posted the relevant words from it, but feel free www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN02239.pdf See 1.2 Implied terms.
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch9128
Dealer no ;D ;D ;D Accountant hence why I spend so much time reading tax legislation ;) :)
Sure you'll agree its getting a wee bit boring now....I stand by what I said and you still havent copied and pasted the actual legislation just links to interpretations and guidance.
Last word from me - I dont think any legislation gives the categoric 6 month period you claim but copy and paste the actual legislation, prove me wrong, and I'll apologise and accept what you say. :)
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
You're trying to weakly link being an accountant to having greater knowledge of consumer law, nonsense I'm not going to cut and paste legislation, any fool can find the law on the internet, and what rights the consumer goods act affords them. The parliament link states this act, and indeed mentions the 6 month implied warranty several times.
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch9128
You're trying to weakly link being an accountant to having greater knowledge of consumer law, nonsense I'm not going to cut and paste legislation, any fool can find the law on the internet, and what rights the consumer goods act affords them. The parliament link states this act, and indeed mentions the 6 month implied warranty several times.
No not at all - you stated a 6 month time limit which I dont think exists.
Their is so much incorrect information on the net and it's not helpful to anyone.
The point I was making is that very often people read legislation, misinterpret it, mis-quote it and it gets posted all over the net.
I'm not a legal expert and I'm more than happy to be proven wrong. :)
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldie
;D ;D
I'm getting bored now though.
We need a WB solicitor :)
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Stubborn to the last, ok from the sale of goods act http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
1)This section applies if—
(a)the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and
(b)the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.
(2)If this section applies, the buyer has the right—
(a)under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or
(b)under and in accordance with section 48C below—
(i)to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
(ii)to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.
(3)For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.
This can and is translated by trading standards and consumer law as any faults which occur within 6 months of purchase are presumed to have been there at point of sale, unless the seller can prove otherwise.
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Well done Maz, brilliant result!
If I can make one little suggestion though...
Agree in writing what needs to be repaired/replaced on the bike, and also agree a time frame and also that they will deliver the bike back to you FOC.
Im sure this dealer is 100% honourable ( ::)) but you don't want your bike back with them for 3 months and then find you have to collect the bike yourself and it's only been partially fixed.
Edited to add:
I would also photograph the bike from every possible angle, and photograph any existing damage. Write up any existing damage and get the dealer to sign it when he collects it, therefore if anything happens to the bike while it's back in their care, you have it documented.... Call me cynical, I can't help it sorry ;D
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch9128
Stubborn to the last, ok from the sale of goods act
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
1)This section applies if—
(a)the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and
(b)the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.
(2)If this section applies, the buyer has the right—
(a)under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or
(b)under and in accordance with section 48C below—
(i)to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
(ii)to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.
(3)For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.
This can and is translated by trading standards and consumer law as any faults which occur within 6 months of purchase are presumed to have been there at point of sale, unless the seller can prove otherwise.
Thank you Mitch :)
That's good to know and I do appreciate you posting.
Told you I was VERY HAPPY to be proven wrong I am no legal expert. :)
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerruti
Well done Maz, brilliant result!
If I can make one little suggestion though...
Agree in writing what needs to be repaired/replaced on the bike, and also agree a time frame and also that they will deliver the bike back to you FOC.
Im sure this dealer is 100% honourable ( ::)) but you don't want your bike back with them for 3 months and then find you have to collect the bike yourself and it's only been partially fixed.
Edited to add:
I would also photograph the bike from every possible angle, and photograph any existing damage. Write up any existing damage and get the dealer to sign it when he collects it, therefore if anything happens to the bike while it's back in their care, you have it documented.... Call me cynical, I can't help it sorry ;D
I'll second that ...being cynical ;) :)
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
[quote author=Mitch9128 link=1347285950/54#54 date=1347362368]Stubborn to the last, ok from the sale of goods act
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
1)This section applies if—
(a)the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and
(b)the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.
(2)If this section applies, the buyer has the right—
(a)under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or
(b)under and in accordance with section 48C below—
(i)to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
(ii)to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.
(3)For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.
This can and is translated by trading standards and consumer law as any faults which occur within 6 months of purchase are presumed to have been there at point of sale, unless the seller can prove otherwise.
Thank you Mitch :)
That's good to know and I do appreciate you posting.
Told you I was VERY HAPPY to be proven wrong I am no legal expert. :)
[/quote]
Bloody glad I dont make my living selling second hand bikes though.
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
There are unscrupulous dealers out there, plenty who ignore the law, and will wriggle out of repairing a vehicle.
e.g.
I bought an Espace a couple of years back, the injectors started leaking, at first the dealer argued they were service items, and it was not until consumer direct were involved he took action. Dealer took it back several times to repair, but they still leaked, at the 6 month point he refunded our money, he wriggled at first, but came good in the end, thanks to consumer law.
Second issue, bought a Zafira last year, the dealer ( a large and well know VAG dealer in Cheltenham) is an utter swine, point blank refusing any responsibilities over issues, and pointing us at the 3rd party warranty he gave with the car. Luckily the warranty was good, but we are still out of pocket with excess' and higher hourly rate charges. Trading standards are currently trying to take out an injunction to stop him trading until all (there are many unhappy customers) issues are resolved.
Re: Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Yes, I will.
I have alreay recorded the telephone conversation.
I will do a video for the damage to where it is.
I will write them a list of the issues but also ask if they can check over the whole bike for problems. This way if they do that we can ensure the bike wont come back with issues again!
I will ask how long it takes (thats a good question)
