MAG & 2030

[Last Train]

MAG receives confirmation that motorcycles are ‘not in scope’ for 2030 end of sale of petrol and diesel vehicles.

https://www.mag-uk.org/motorcycles-not-in-scope-for-2030-end-of-sale-of-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles/?fbclid=IwAR0lzOiLDonky-XyxBpFtn6s70c2Ob0iQpL0hMfGRJ5Bu9lS-KymJHeuYUI

[BB]

I'm not sure where we will be getting our fuel from though, all the petrol stations will be shut! :(

[Last Train]

I'm not sure where we will be getting our fuel from though, all the petrol stations will be shut! :(

That’s true :(

I wonder if Bozo is just paying a bit of lip service to the tree huggers with the whole 2030 thing ?

[Badger-Roy]

I'm not sure where we will be getting our fuel from though, all the petrol stations will be shut! :(
look on the roads, most cars are 10 years + old so IF they do (big if IMO) stop making petrol/diesel vehicles in 2030 then realistically come 2045 and beyond there will still be petrol stations open to run those cars, unless of course the whole country suddenly becomes affluent enough to spend 30 odd grand on a glorified milk float, which with the current situation seems sadly unlikely.

[Dazr]

That’s true :(

I wonder if Bozo is just paying a bit of lip service to the tree huggers with the whole 2030 thing ?

I agree i really can't see it myself, 10 years and all the infrastructure in place, including upgrade of power stations, charging points, disposal of batteries etc. They can't even fix the potholes, yet they are going to be ready for electric vehicles by 2030......i can hear it now our aim was 2030 but we never realised we did not have PPE oops wrong subject...:rolleyes:

[BB]

.....i can hear it now our aim was 2030 but we never realised we did not have PPE oops wrong subject...:rolleyes:

Now that's more like it! ;)

[Trev_P]

I agree i really can't see it myself, 10 years and all the infrastructure in place, including upgrade of power stations, charging points, disposal of batteries etc. They can't even fix the potholes, yet they are going to be ready for electric vehicles by 2030......i can hear it now our aim was 2030 but we never realised we did not have PPE oops wrong subject...:rolleyes:


they reckon at the mo we ony have about 5-10% headroom with our electricity infrastructure so everyone all electric by 2030 ! and dont forget they are pushing electric boilers etc for homes and factories over gas etc. Not gonna happen !

i am not a fan of being "pushed" into something like an EV and will be one of the last to go there, however i would throw a curve ball and go hydrogen other than being forced down a battery EV PC route unfortunately filling stations are rare but increasing : battery EV charge time 2-9 hours (depending on charge point), range of around 140 miles. Hydrogen - filling time around 6 minutes and a range of 415 miles (hyundai nexo) much more like it and an 8 hour drive to scotland wont take 3 days.
as for battery electric motorcycles, take our ridouts for example a trip to west bay would most likely use 90% of the charge (from swindon) then you would have to stay for a few hours to charge it to come home (with no detours) providing there are charge points available.

all that being said its only new vehicles not being sold and i think existing will be catered for for the life of that vehicle, fuels and parts etc although i can see the re-emergance of the good ol breakers yard

[Dabz]

New electric Harley is £30k....expensive for a 90 mile max round trip on dry weekends only :D

[Badger-Roy]

New electric Harley that sounds like the start of a joke.

[WR6133]

The logistics and retail part of fuel (post refinery) are not particularly high margin. I suspect this means it would be quicker than people may think for petrol stations to not vanish but thin out significantly. This would lead to price rises, I've not ordered bulk fuel for retail but have in the past for commercial use and the price difference on ordering 33000 litres a week is tangible compared to 16000. The retailers will see margins shrink and will need to make up for it by passing the cost on, the little independent places just won't survive.

Using my estate as a "straw poll", so by no means accurate but still illustrative. Most of the cars here 66%+ are 10 years old at most, now most new and first time used sales these days are on some form of PCP type plan. These "rental" type plans mean the initial buyer and the 2nd buyer don't care much on the ticket price, just the monthly. That renders alot of the "cost" of the EV moot. So if we say from 2030 onward (lets ignore earlier sales) all these new cars are electric, 3-4 years after that those enter the "approved used" market. Within a decade that is the majority of my estate in electric cars. Extrapolate that across all of Tidworth and I'd bet our Petrol station is closed down before 2040. That then pushes me to just outside Faberstown to fuel up, though that is a small independent so probably shorter lifespan than Tidworth, leaving me with a 20 mile round trip to fuel the car. At this point I say "balls to that" and buy a used EV.

I think bikes are different, most are toys and passions. If I'm going out for a ride on a nice day the extra mileage for fuel wouldn't bother me, neither would price rises. I can't see fossil fuel totally vanishing, agriculture, commercial and plant will need diesel for a significantly longer time than private vehicles and (I stand to be corrected) if you are refining diesel you are also making petrol.

Obviously all of my above thoughts are based on the assumption that the current issues around charging, power supply and the like are dealt with by our Government (I struggle to type that with a straight face).

and you never know, maybe in a decade electric bikes are so awesome we are all clamoring to get one!

[BB]

'and I'd bet our Petrol station is closed down before 2040. That then pushes me to just outside Faberstown to fuel up,'

Shouldn't that read 'That then leaves me to push to just outside Faberstown.... ' :rolleyes:

[WR6133]

Shouldn't that read 'That then leaves me to push to just outside Faberstown.... ' :rolleyes:

;) You can imagine the Electric drivers laughing as they pass, "Look at that poor Diseasal pleb". Though on the flip side I can sneer at them taking 3 days to get to Glasgow!

[Dazr]

Some things to make you think:
Trev - I remember seeing Hydrogen cars on Top Gear a while back, at the time i thought that's the way they will go. Like you say range and filling up much the same a petrol / diesel.
WR6133 - Thats a good point if fuel stations shut then it gets further and further to fill up, that will drive some to move across to EV.

The other week (pre lockdown 2) i met up with a mate who always had large engine petrol cars, he was now driving a second hand Hybrid car...and was raving about. I just could not get excited about it, must be my age seemed like and elaborate iPad / car :confused:

[Trev]

Some things to make you think:
Trev - I remember seeing Hydrogen cars on Top Gear a while back, at the time i thought that's the way they will go. Like you say range and filling up much the same a petrol / diesel.
WR6133 - Thats a good point if fuel stations shut then it gets further and further to fill up, that will drive some to move across to EV.

The other week (pre lockdown 2) i met up with a mate who always had large engine petrol cars, he was now driving a second hand Hybrid car...and was raving about. I just could not get excited about it, must be my age seemed like and elaborate iPad / car :confused:


I ran a Volvo V60 PHEV for 3 years (2014-17), 75k miles. lots of long trips (Scotland, Belgium and Dusseldorf twice a year), 0 - 60 in just over 6 seconds and it averaged over 100mpg over the 3 years I owned it, superb piece of kit now available for under £15k second hand. I also ran a BMW i3 all EV for 3 years 40k miles, 120 - 140 mile range, super quick off the line, under 7 seconds to 60, great fun. 5 hours for full charge from home wall point but hardly ever charge from zero so just plug in each night and full 'tank' every morning. Servicing only very 2 years and peanuts even at BMW stealer.
Now have a second hand BMW i3 range extender, (£21k 11,ooo miles, all the kit, 1 year BM warranty) same 130 - 140 mile range but 80+ miles from scooter motor if needed. In 5 months, 6k miles I've used the ICE engine twice as couldn't be bothered to stop on way back from airport run, 11 litres of fuel used so far, probably won't use any more for another year or so. Used it for Cornwall trip last month to see whether EV only viable for that, 213 miles one way. Charged it once on the way down, 55 mins while we had lunch ( it was fully charged in 42 minutes from about 15%) , twice on the trip back, 20 - 25 mins each while we had a coffee. Well over twice the price to charge from public charger than from home, about £10 for 120 miles, less than £4 from home.

Owning and running an EV is sooooo easy, the range thing is not an issue for the vast majority of UK drivers and the saving on fuel and servicing is huge ...... and whisper it, they're even fun ; )

[WR6133]

Charged it once on the way down, 55 mins while we had lunch ( it was fully charged in 42 minutes from about 15%)

That's where EV's fall flat for me (currently). In the 12 months pre-plague I did alot of business miles and adding hour long charging sessions to already long days, isn't an option, it would mean more nights in hotels and meals for 1.

[Trev_P]

Some things to make you think:
Trev - I remember seeing Hydrogen cars on Top Gear a while back, at the time i thought that's the way they will go. Like you say range and filling up much the same a petrol / diesel.


I remember when vauxhall was going to launch the Ampera many moons ago that was going to be Hydrogen but the lack of filling stations killed that off and it eventually launched as a hybrid.
for me i think the push to buy an EV is political in a similar fashion to the gov's BUY DIESEL with all its benefits
in the great scheme of things they are not the greenest alternative when you look at how and where the parts come from and how many globe miles they travel before they get assembled in the car.
And of course how long before the insurance companies realise the performance and say hang on you have an EV that has the acceleration/performance of a super car (some tesla's can do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds) https://www.0-60specs.com/tesla/
we will have to raise your premiums accordingly or have they already and this other shoe is waiting to drop !

definitely hydrogen for me, mpg and filling times comparable to petrol/diesel. hydrogen stations on the increase so looking more favourable BUT as they are still damn expensive as are EV's i can wait.
I am afraid that any EV just don't float my boat

most people especially in gov seem to think EV's are a new thing, well anyone here over a certain age may remember the 60's/70's where the milkman used to come up in his 3 wheeled milk wagon EV. all the kids used to jump on it for a ride even if it was only a few yards :D

[Badger-Roy]

well anyone here over a certain age may remember the 60's/70's where the milkman used to come up in his 3 wheeled milk wagon EV. all the kids used to jump on it for a ride even if it was only a few yards :D
I used to be a milkman at Avonmoor dairy straight out of collage (education money well spent :rolleyes:) I remember once a 38 ton HGV broke down over the loading dock so we slung a chain round the front into the back of a single electric milk float and it pulled it out the way as if it wasn’t there, unbelievable torque but 14mph was its lot , no heater or screen demister (but had a scraper on a string to scrape the ice of the inside screen :) ) always running out of power and the headlights were like tiny torches, not the best introduction to EV and maybe that’s where my intense dislike of them stems from.
I genuinely and honestly loved that job though.

[Trev_P]

I used to be a milkman at Avonmoor dairy.

Ernie ! ;)

[Last Train]

Ernie ! ;)


Hey Badger, I reckon you’re in need of a name change ;)

I know what you mean though mate. They were my alarm clock for years, the wurr of the float, (what a great name for it by the way) & the clanking of the bottles. I always fancied working on them though never did. I was a paper-rounder:)

[Badger-Roy]

I never had the fun Ernie had believe me :).
I actually turned one over on it’s side outside the old Bulford post office, jumped in and thought it was in forward gear but was in reverse and reversed it straight over the bank onto the road below, you can not begin to believe the noise and mess made by a couple of hundred milk bottles smashing, then of course the embarrassment as the fire brigade turn up as it turns out that much milk is classed as an environmental hazard. :o

[BB]

I never had the fun Ernie had believe me :).
I actually turned one over on it’s side outside the old Bulford post office, jumped in and thought it was in forward gear but was in reverse and reversed it straight over the bank onto the road below, you can not begin to believe the noise and mess made by a couple of hundred milk bottles smashing, then of course the embarrassment as the fire brigade turn up as it turns out that much milk is classed as an environmental hazard. :o

Magic, I bet you took plenty of stick for that :D

[Badger-Roy]

Magic, I bet you took plenty of stick for that :D
Oh yes, in fact last year I bumped into the old manager of the dairy and the 1st thing out his mouth was “learnt directions yet have ya”, that’s 25 years later and it’s still biting me on the arse :rolleyes:

[Trev_P]

Magic, I bet you took plenty of stick for that :D
i bet he had a lotta bottle as well :D
1869

[WR6133]

There's still one of those things does the rounds out of Devizes. When I had to commute early I had a few near misses with it in the dark due to its lights not working.

[Badger-Roy]

There's still one of those things does the rounds out of Devizes. When I had to commute early I had a few near misses with it in the dark due to its lights not working.
yep I know the one, I almost rode up it’s arse a while back bout 2 miles before Devizes, certainly woke me up.

[Scotty]

Back in 1987 I was driving a self-propelled crop sprayer along a dual carriageway near Milton Keynes when I encountered a milk float, cue a proper duel, with me and the milkman crying with laughter, neck and neck along the road. Mine had a bit more pick-up coming off a roundabout but ultimately his float pulled away up a long shallow hill. Reprehensible behaviour I know, technically racing on the public highway, reaching the reckless heights of 20mph!

[Dazr]

Back in 1987 I was driving a self-propelled crop sprayer along a dual carriageway near Milton Keynes when I encountered a milk float, cue a proper duel, with me and the milkman crying with laughter, neck and neck along the road. Mine had a bit more pick-up coming off a roundabout but ultimately his float pulled away up a long shallow hill. Reprehensible behaviour I know, technically racing on the public highway, reaching the reckless heights of 20mph!

I bet that was a sight to see....:D

[BB]

Back in 1987 I was driving a self-propelled crop sprayer along a dual carriageway near Milton Keynes when I encountered a milk float, cue a proper duel, with me and the milkman crying with laughter, neck and neck along the road. Mine had a bit more pick-up coming off a roundabout but ultimately his float pulled away up a long shallow hill. Reprehensible behaviour I know, technically racing on the public highway, reaching the reckless heights of 20mph!


Magic! LOL