who's at fault?

[napalm]

I've watched this video and can't figure who makes the mistake, or at least the worst one! bear in mind it's the TT. No limits and one way. I think the car driver may be the only person not at fault. Thoughts?
Warning, scenes of disintegration follow:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=313369348811199&id=156207517860717&__tn__=H

[SupeRDel]

The rider made the mistake by assuming the road in front will always be clear.

When you leave Ramsey the road over the top becomes one way with open speed limits. This crash is going up the first part of the mountain after the Gooseneck.
The police on the island will paint vehicle crash position on the road with white paint and I can remember seeing this marked out

Basically they man all junctions up the mountain waiting for a crash to happen to clear up.
They were regular when I was there - mountain was shut everytime I went to go over it. I was stuck on top for 2 hours when a crash happened after Hailwood rise.

I chatted to a copper on the top while watching the bikes pass. All vehicles have the same rights on the mountain. As well as bikes there are cars, vans and big campervans (doing 30mph)
All the intelligent drivers of slow vehicles will keep to the left. I was doing 80 on my RD400 (which is slow on the mountain) and had bikes passing me at 150

The copper said to me, what people do not realise is that every vehicle can use the racing lines on corners. See the first part of the video. The rider passes a car on a right hand bend.
The car driver was well within his right to use the race line and pull over pushing the bike off the road.
Copper told me it was a regular type of crash - thats why there is big signs at the bottom saying use your mirrors.

[SupeRDel]

Racing was delayed on Mad Sunday - This procession was bringing down a wrecked bike. The lady who owned our house said there was so many accidents on mad sunday in 2012 that the police asked for a race to be held on the sunday too close the roads

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%202%20-%20Mad%20Sunday/119_zps475f687c.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%202%20-%20Mad%20Sunday/119_zps475f687c.jpg.html)

[SupeRDel]

This is the junction at the top of Hailwood rise - the copper I was chatting too was stood next to me. Some bikes are coming past at 150mph

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%203%20-%20Crosby%20Hill/326_zps66a344c8.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%203%20-%20Crosby%20Hill/326_zps66a344c8.jpg.html)

Then in the fast bikes, slow bikes, classic bikes you will get this........... a campervan

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%203%20-%20Crosby%20Hill/281_zpsb94ecc06.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%203%20-%20Crosby%20Hill/281_zpsb94ecc06.jpg.html)

You also get some seriously fast car driving around as well going it welly (Ferrari's / Porches, etc)
Don't expect them to wait either, they will dive thru like Marquez in the Motogp

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%203%20-%20Crosby%20Hill/274_zps503b41c9.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%203%20-%20Crosby%20Hill/274_zps503b41c9.jpg.html)

[SupeRDel]

This is taken at the Bungalow (a pull off at the top) looking up Hailwood Rise - the previous photos were taken at the junction at the top of Hailwood rise looking back towards this.

Its a busy stream of bikes and cars all day - some people go around and around all day.

Note the 2 police cars by the junction. Shortly after I took this there was a crash farther on. One waiting copper stops the flow and the other attends

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%204%20-%20Ramsey%20Sprint/058_zps7ee9e4c3.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%204%20-%20Ramsey%20Sprint/058_zps7ee9e4c3.jpg.html)

[SupeRDel]

Not forgetting the tourist bus that drive the circuit. Might you if you cannot see a bus........need I say more?

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%204%20-%20Ramsey%20Sprint/071_zps409c86a9.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%204%20-%20Ramsey%20Sprint/071_zps409c86a9.jpg.html)

Knew I had a photo somewhere.

This was actually outside a garage but on the mountain circuit they mark accidents the same and clear the roads quite quickly to get it open
Its not like the Uk where a minor accident has to be inspected for hours...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%206%20-%20Calf%20of%20Man/1106_zps411dcb13.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%206%20-%20Calf%20of%20Man/1106_zps411dcb13.jpg.html)

[QB1]

I've watched this video and can't figure who makes the mistake, or at least the worst one! bear in mind it's the TT. No limits and one way. I think the car driver may be the only person not at fault. Thoughts?
Warning, scenes of disintegration follow:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=313369348811199&id=156207517860717&__tn__=H

Cant see how or why the car driver is at fault.

I reckon it's the bike coming up too fast not assessing the speeds of everyone in front of him/her.

[SupeRDel]

The coppers just sit and watch and clear the carnage.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%206%20-%20Calf%20of%20Man/183_zps42d9c4a1.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%206%20-%20Calf%20of%20Man/183_zps42d9c4a1.jpg.html)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%206%20-%20Calf%20of%20Man/177_zpsbf84967a.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%206%20-%20Calf%20of%20Man/177_zpsbf84967a.jpg.html)

[QB1]

The first bike that pulls out to overtake the car should also take some blame, he must have (or should have) seen the bike coming up behind at speed and yet does such a slow overtake.

[QB1]

Nice photos SupeRDel

[SupeRDel]

Had to get a photo of my self coming over Ballaugh bridge

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%206%20-%20Calf%20of%20Man/126_zpsdea13165.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%206%20-%20Calf%20of%20Man/126_zpsdea13165.jpg.html)

This is back on the normal 2 way roads with speed limits. Some people do jump the bridge hoping a copper is not there when they do it.

Bar for the unrestricted mountain part of the course the speed limits were strictly enforced
Coppers there are not against bikers (they all ride bike) but they will not tolerate dangerous riding

[Crosbie]

Great photos! Nasty video!

My view would be both riders involved in the crash are to blame and no others.

The slow overtaker did not use his mirrors - I think this is fairly apparent as he did not see the second party approaching with speed, he also did not see the video taker as im sure he had to brake pretty dam hard (hence a bit of wobble on the vid). He also did not check his blind spot otherwise he would have seen the video taker.

The second party was (although on an open speed limit road with other super fast riders) riding too fast for the traffic on the road full stop and was just unlucky there was a numb nut pulling out.

Hopefully both were able to make a fully recover and take something away from such a nasty crash.

[SupeRDel]

I think you will find the camera bikes wobble was caused by the fast bike hitting on the way past - you can hear the glancing blow on the video sound.

Riders on the mountain course cannot blindly expect the road a head to be clear or that slow moving car/bike in front is aware they are coming.

I would hazard a guess that part of this is the old follow my leader syndrome.
First rider eases off, Second rider slows, third rider is braking. fourth rider is emergency braking last rider is crashing.
Have seen this happen on many runs.

Bikes approach on the mountain course going very fast - working speeds out by glancing in the mirror is not easy.
I went around one left hand bend and could see a car behind. Half way around the bend I was surprised to be past by a AMG Smart car that was going seriously fast.
He flew past the couple of cars that I was preparing to pass as well

[napalm]

I agree with a lot of the above, I can't help feeling the camera bike was also at fault for not going through. I'm not sure there was a need to slow to the speed of the overtaking bike and if he'd passed the speeding bike would have maybe had space to get through without incident.
It's a complex one alright.
Superb photo's btw. Really nice insight into what it's like over there.

[wiltshire builders]

100% the bikers fault.
Riding over the mountain (they got rid of mad Sunday years ago) during TT week is one of the most frightening things I've done on a bike.
The roads are full of ass*oles who think they can ride. Much like our friend in the video.
In 2012 five people were killed, some of them locals.
Racing was delayed nearly every day and like super del said the evidence could be seen by the markings on the road.
One morning just before mountain mile I saw a black tyre mark and a hole through a grass bank that lead to a 20ft drop from the night before.
It's a tough way to learn that you're not as good as you think you are.

[SupeRDel]

On the "mad Sunday" the roads are so full that from Douglas to Ramsey and the start of the mountain its hard to get over 30mph anyway.

But basically its madness on the mountain everyday and as soon as the racing stops and the roads are declared open.

People pull into laybys just to watch the bikes hurtling past. Some of the german riders are really scarey.

Stopped going up the mountain to take a few shots (This is not far from the accident on the video) - at this point the bikes are really beginning to go for it

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%204%20-%20Ramsey%20Sprint/042_zps5d15c123.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%204%20-%20Ramsey%20Sprint/042_zps5d15c123.jpg.html)

You may also note the road over the mountain is not that wide so it leaves little room for mistakes.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l109/superdel/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%204%20-%20Ramsey%20Sprint/043_zps8483e72a.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/superdel/media/Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%202013/TT%202013%20-%20Day%204%20-%20Ramsey%20Sprint/043_zps8483e72a.jpg.html)

Pulling out of these stop places is much like joining a motorway from a T-junction with the traffic coming at you at over 100mph