Are we the soft touch?

[Nelly]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while now but postponed the post until the weekend passed.
I have got to thinking that we are being looked at as some kind of money making machine. I did the first 2 ride of respects and helped at the base of the 3rd. But it has occurred to me that this sort of event looks like becoming some kind of cash cow. Sadly, successive governments’ failings have ensured that charities are having to work harder in order to get a slice of the pie. However, it would appear that the pie is getting bigger. It would appear that “bikers” being asked to “go for a ride” to generate some cash is on the increase. Events like Ride of respect, Martha Care, Ride to the wall, Hogging the bridge and now the ring of red which it appears, will become an annual event, are increasing. Now, I understand the value of these events but are they necessary? The ring of red at the weekend saw up to 15000 bikes going around in a circle on the M25. Not something I wanted to do to be honest. That’s a personal choice. I can think of lots of better ways to spend a Sunday. This event was Bourne out of respecting the fallen, Surely that’s what remembrance Sunday is for?
I’m not trying to court controversy here but wanted to see what your feelings are about them. Are we being “taken for a ride”?
Before any of you go off on one about me being selfish etc etc I want to point out that I have a charitable nature. I am the first to dig in my pockets. It just seems to me that when someone wants some cash these days, they turn to the good ol’ British Biker?

[WR6133]

I question sometimes the intent behind some of the events organised. I've seen a few bandied about that I don't think entirely had charity in mind.

There is a 125cc riding club up north that have lately been spamming a lot of forums asking for donations for a Lands End to John o Groats run. They seem to want to use some of the "sponsorship" to pay for fuel, a support van and other costs to cover their 3 day jaunt....... but they are doing it all for "charity".

As to the remembrance/forces ones as an ex serviceman who had some very hard times after I got out and still have PTSD issues to this day, the only charity I have any respect for is the British Legion. Those guys got me on my feet after I did some prison time shortly after becoming a Civilian, put money in my hand to get a roof over my head and did it all with understanding and a smile, the other "forces" charities (in my experience) are a shower of ****e and I wouldn't donate a single penny if I was a billionaire.

Milking bikers I think is just a savvy business move, it's relatively easy to mobilise large numbers, many have disposable cash and it is a great way to grab a headline (this being the main thing as headlines equal more donations).

I'm deeply cynical of Charity in General though. My brothers ex worked for a reasonably well known one and I was told in detail about the high end entertaining and 5 star hotel jaunts that were all paid for, alongside the tactics they used to get their name associated with successes that they actually played very little part in.

[wiltshire builders]

I totally agree with you.
"Charity" is big business. Think of it as a government with the minions doing all the work "for the greater good" while the management sit around barking orders, skimming off of the top.
Why are there so many charities collecting for the same thing? Why don't they join forces and create one big charity?
Because there is money to be made and pockets to line but they ease their social conscience by giving some of it to the needy.

A good example is the charity skydive/jungle trek/2 weeks in the maldives etc. You want people to basically pay for you to do something that you've always wanted to do and whatever is left over give to charity.

I know it's an effective way of getting charity but it does leave a bad taste in the mouth.

[QB1]

I was only chatting with my other half about that yesterday.

I dont do the charity rides myself, doesnt mean I dont give to charity, but just dont mix the two.

I cant help feeling bikers are targeted for money making BUT no one is forced to go along and lots of bikers do so they must be happy doing them. Each to their own :)

If I wanted to raise awareness of a charity/fund raise to be honest it would be one of the first ways I'd look at doing it.

[Nelly]

Here's the thing that is Bugging me about the ring of red.
According to the organiser the cash donated was "£2348.64 plus a washer and a button". I think we can agree that's a fair sum. Now sadly we can almost guarantee that out of 15000 bikers there were one or two "offs" either on the ride or in the journeys to and from. If the air ambulance even had just one call out during the day in any area, that £2348.64 has been negated straight away. So effectively the £2348 is made by one charity at the cost of another!

[QB1]

To be honest I'm astounded they only raised that from 15,000 bikers - thats less than 16p from each biker! :confused:

I'd have been extremely disappointed as an organiser if that was all they raised.

I take your point but if you take that sort of view point about the potential of incurring the cost of calling out the Air Ambulance you wouldnt ever participate in any 'dangerous' activity.

15,000 bikers obviously wanted to attend the Ride and were happy doing so.

[WR6133]

That's about 15 pence donated by each biker..... is it a figure of what was in the collection buckets or a figure after any "deductions" have been taken because it seems awfully low for the numbers involved.

[QB1]

If you look on the latest BBC report it says ''The actual number of bikers that took part is not known, but Ms Stevenson had estimated that about 15,000 were needed in order to complete "the world's largest poppy".''

I reckon to have raised £2,300 for the RBL they either had a lot less bikes or some huge costs.

[DC]

Couldn't agree more Neil , have felt this for some time now but not being an ex-serviceman was always reluctant to raise issues such as these for fear of being branded unsympathetic or disrespectful . Large charities are a gravy train and relieve our governments , in a way of the responsibility of supporting troops and their familes rehabilitation after traumatic experiences , the likes of which the vast majority of us luckily will never even get a glimpse of , sending them God knows where in the name of God knows what and then tugging at The Great British public heartstrings and expecting them , in the form of taxes and charitable donations to foot the bill because after all they take these decisions............ On our behalf.

[redken1]

Before I offer my views on this thread I wish to emphasise that it is not my aim to make political points. I do find it difficult however, to separate politics from issues relating to charities considering that some like ‘Help for Heroes’ exist as a direct consequence of decisions made by our politicians. I never attend biker or other organised events when there is a compulsory charge because I believe it goes against the whole spirit of the charitable ethos. This is unfortunate from my point of view because some of these events I would like to attend and would probably contribute more on a voluntarily basis. To answer Neil’s question I’don’t think the ever increasing size of the begging bowl is extended exclusively to the biking community, but is more widespread. Charities and Voluntary organisations are victims of their own success to a certain degree in terms of the more they raise and address their respective causes, the more the state will place a burden on them. Hmmmm! This brings me on to the ‘Big Society.’
I am not criticizing the vast army of kind-hearted volunteers who give up so much of their free time playing an active role in their communities. But and a big but, there is a price to be paid – in many areas and situations volunteers are now doing the work which was paid employment in the past. That’s fine if we wish to continue along this path as long as the charities are prepared to take on more and more. I know some may find this is a controversial view, but I cannot get my head round how it is as a nation we can find the money to send our armed forces to fight in wars, but they are forced to turn to charity when they come home with terrible injuries. Grrrrrrr!!!!!

[spudgun]

It's your choice who you give your money to!

Personally, a "Santa" or "Easter egg" run is a nicer feeling - you pick what you give knowing where it's going 100% and actually see some smiles from the kids when delivering them :)

[Dabz]

First of all, the Ring of Red amount raised is a disgrace. These bikers say they're riding to show their respect..so much respect that they couldn't average 50p per rider to make it up to £7500ish? And before anyone who went on the ride attacks me..I'm talking in general here, I'm sure some individuals did stump up more than the average 16p. If there really were 15000 bikes that could afford to tax, insure and maintain their bike and then choose to ride around a motorway on a Sunday, I fail to believe that each one couldn't have donated a pound each - raising a healthy £15k for charity. I wonder how much the various Costa Coffee shops at the services made from bikers? More than £2300 that's for sure. So to generalise, why were these respectful bikers more willing to donate to Costa than the cause they were so passionately supporting? It makes no sense.

Alternatively, perhaps the bikers donated lots but the organisers spent a great deal organising the event. If that's the case then that's just as bad if not worse - they would have been better to not organise the event and for the same bikers to have attended local events and donated the same amount, also using less fuel and saving the planet while they're at it :)

But back to the more general point, yes I totally agree. The thing is, we love an excuse to ride our bikes, and charities have picked up on this during times where costs are rising and general donations are falling. I'm not sure there's an answer to it, other than being personally selective on what you attend.

[Swanny]

It's your choice who you give your money to!

Personally, a "Santa" or "Easter egg" run is a nicer feeling - you pick what you give knowing where it's going 100% and actually see some smiles from the kids when delivering them :)


Poole bike night is a classic example of the charity bucket being used to make money for the wrong people.


As for the red ring ride the organisers may have only taken £2300 but looking at the riders there they spent a lot of money on poppies etc before hand. I didn't see a bucket going around and therefore didn't donate anything at the event but I did make donations for my poppies else where.

[Jon_W]

Ultimatly it's up to the individual what they do or do not do.

Is the motorcycle thing being milked a bit.... probably, but then how many show up to these events?... usually lots.

So the event orgonisers are holding events which motorcyclists want to go to....

[Kopite]

This is not a rant, just my take on it.....I agree with Jon W. Bikers, or motorcyclists, are being targeted for donations to charity and the recent charity of choice seems to be the armed forces.
It has been said by some people, maybe not on here, that bikers have a certain bond with the forces. I have never really thought this. Growing up I would have rather been a biker than a squaddie!, less rules and more freedom. The first " Mothers Day Ride" was to show support to the town of Wootton Bassett for all they had done during the repatriation of fallen service personnel. This did however come at a cost...donation to the charity Afghan Heroes. Since then it was noted that bikers are kind hearted and could spare a few quid. The yearly run has raised much needed cash and has improved the biker image in the public eye. There were always going to be offshoots of this sort of thing and many would attend. How many of you have been to the Kent Custom or Bulldog Bash ?
Money from these events have also gone to charity but is less publicised. It's all about freedom of choice. Do you want to give to charity? Do you want to ride your bike? Do you want to combine the two?
I was on the M25 on Sunday. There was no fee, there were buckets around but they were not waved in your face. If you wanted to give you could. There were patches on sale and profits would go to the RBL. The idea was to create a giant poppy on the M25 to show respect on the remembrance Sunday, after all not everybody goes to a church service! The "Ring of Red" was completed and we all went home! There was nowhere near the 15000 wanted to form the "ring" so the bikes spaced out a little more. I rode the bike for nearly 300 miles with some great company, was part of something different and went to a pub..........Cracking day out. My choice, freedom of choice and I would have done it even if no charity was involved. I do give to charity but on my terms...you wave a bucket at me and you get nothing. It was just a very big ride out!!!

[QB1]

This is not a rant, just my take on it.....I agree with Jon W. Bikers, or motorcyclists, are being targeted for donations to charity and the recent charity of choice seems to be the armed forces.
....

I wonder if its possibly due to us being in Wiltshire which has such a large connection with the Armed Forces and so many current and ex service personnel here?

I dont have any connections whatsoever with the Forces and mean absolutely no disrespect but to me the British Legion etc are just another very worthy charity competing for peoples hard earned cash.

[QB1]

First of all, the Ring of Red amount raised is a disgrace. These bikers say they're riding to show their respect..so much respect that they couldn't average 50p per rider to make it up to £7500ish? And before anyone who went on the ride attacks me..I'm talking in general here, I'm sure some individuals did stump up more than the average 16p. If there really were 15000 bikes that could afford to tax, insure and maintain their bike and then choose to ride around a motorway on a Sunday, I fail to believe that each one couldn't have donated a pound each - raising a healthy £15k for charity.....

I think its fairly apparent that they didnt have anything like the 15,000 bikes the organiser(s) had hoped for.

[Senna(Dan)]

A difficult subject to discuss Neil but a good point to broach.

As has been said previously bikers tend to get targeted because of the disposable income.
As most know I volunteer on a regular basis for The Bike Experience, this costs me fuel to and from Silverstone which is minimal. I don't donate money to this charity because of the volunteering that I do, my view is that if it were somebody being employed to do this they would be getting paid in the region of £60 a day for it.

I do however donate to various charities throughout the year. It is not that I am flush with cash, but my £40 donation to a couple of charities may well help somebody in dire need.

The ring of red had 15,000 bikes will have been an overstatement, the same happened with the Ride of Respect. Apparently 10,000 bikes turned up but they only had 8 batches of bikes and maybe 4,000 was more accurate.

[Dabz]

Even so, you'd hope that 4000 bikes might at least raise £4000 given the fact that some will have struck £5, £10 in the pot..

[Snowy]

So everyone spent maybe £10 to £20 in fuel (nice for the chancellor) and put in a few pence for the charity. Have I got that right?

[wiltshire builders]

It's a good way to ease your social conscience. The "I've done my bit" attitude is rife lately.
Riding in a big circle doesn't pay for prosthetic limbs, housing or psychiatric care.
I blame the Facebook culture. You are constantly bombarded with "like this and the child will get a life saving op" last time I checked doctors still got payed in cash.
I genuinely believe people think they've made a difference when in actual fact they're basking in the reflective glory of the real good Samaritans.

[Dabz]

Brilliant post, agree totally WB

[redken1]

I find myself in total agreement with you too Dan. And how many has been so called celebrities are advised to associate themselves with high profile charities as a vehicle to advance their failing careers.

[Grey haired bloke]

Fair post Kopite, I also rode the M25 Sunday and enjoyed the day, if I may quote a part of your post,

I was on the M25 on Sunday. There was no fee, there were buckets around but they were not waved in your face. If you wanted to give you could. There were patches on sale and profits would go to the RBL. The idea was to create a giant poppy on the M25 to show respect on the remembrance Sunday, after all not everybody goes to a church service! The "Ring of Red" was completed and we all went home! There was nowhere near the 15000 wanted to form the "ring" so the bikes spaced out a little more.

If I might add,
on the day £6,579.04 was raised in donations from riders and members of the public and they had no idea of what we were doing, the money is still coming in from sales of patches etc. We all have a choice in what we do in our spare time and with a few spare quid we have, at no time did I intend to spend the day riding the M25, we did our stint, M4 Reading to M25 South Mimms services, 12.30pm until 1pm after that it was a bomb burst to carry on to do what and ride where you wanted, I spent the rest of the day riding the city area of London always an experience :)
As Kopite said this wasn't a money making ride, it was a record attempt and this was a way to show our respect while doing it, we rode our bikes in a somewhat bigger than average ride out and tried to set a new world record of the biggest poppy ever, this was achived so we were told and without a doubt the majority of riders found the whole day most enjoyable and many are looking forward to next years attempt to re-set the record.
As for 15,000 bikes, that was a hoped for number and there's not one person who thought that number had been achieved not even from the organisers but then the whole thing was organised in less than 4 weeks so for it to of happened at all was something of a miracle.

So there you go, a ride out that WASN'T put together to raise funds, it was to set a record and if a few quid was raised while doing it then all well and good, the only requests from the organisers were that riders all wore something red and we each had a poppy, I can't see anything to knock there.