steering damper

[Iceman]

I'm keen to know more about steering dampers.I had a few"headshakes" years ago but have since not had the problem as my abilities improved.Nevertheless I hear it's better to have one than not If it happens! I seen this one advertised for £20, 2nd hand, and wondering how it actually attaches,ie, is this complete? Thanks

[Uber Dave]

For starters it would appear that specific one is for a 2007/08 model Yamaha R1 and you have a ZX6R so it wouldn't fit your bike.

Depends on the bike and model as to what parts you need, for example my 2009 R6 needs the damper and a mounting kit to mount it, but other bikes are different.

[Squashed_Fly]

You wouldn't really need one for the zx6. It's a heavier bike, and doesn't have the same power etc that makes the front light enough for tankslappers. Not saying it couldn't happen, but extremely unlikely.

If you had an older R1/Gixxer thou then they had real issues with tankslapping as they were such nutters of bikes. But modern ones have solved a lot of these issues with cleverer geometry and power delivery.

[Mark_Able]

Never had a tank slapper with my original R1. That's not to say it didn't shake it's head from time to time, but that's all in the excitement if you ask me. The steering damper pictured is pretty pathetic anyway. It does the job (on an R1), but it's not adjustable, and not very up-to-date. When I raced my R1, I went for a Harris adjustable damper, with 15 settings. It takes more effort to steer the bike, but it does make it extremely stable. It really is only worthwhile if you ride like a twat on bumpy roads, on an unstable bike (Suzuki GSXR750SRAD)... ::)

[Beamer]

Tank-slappers!!!!.......takes me back to the training session Mark.....didnt actually know what one was....but made Scardey Cat chuckle when i said i thought it was when your 'chest area' slaps about on the tank hehehe.....I will always have visions of the more 'well endowed' people (men included) slapping their anatomy against their tanks hehehehe ;) ;) ;) ;)

[Squashed_Fly]

.I will always have visions of the more 'well endowed' men ;) ;) ;) ;)

Tina, I've told you before, you're going to have to stop thinking about me in that way...

[Iceman]

I had a couple of "headshakes" on a CBR600 years ago on 2 occasions while accelerating hard over bumpy road while overtaking,but the bike recovered quite quickly,but enough to scare me! Then I had a proper "tankslapper"on a ZZR600 while accelerating in the wet.The back must have fishtailed first then the handlebars started shaking.Within a second or so the whole bike started oscilating violently and I came straight off the seat with the handlbars hitting side to side.I prepared to hit the deck and then somehow it calmed down. Needless to say I slowed down and never had that happen again like that! My wrists were really sore too and I thought I had broken one of them! I've now worked out how each one happened and avoided repeating the same habits by feeling the bike.But I suppose track days are much more agressive and you're more than likely pushing the envelope to induce oscilations,especially on the litre class!
..anyway,I ask questions as that's how I learn from more seasoned riders on here!
:)

[KP]

if you dont ask questions,you`ll never learn, im learning more and more as time goes by, and thats down to the guys on here, and peeps at meets, always willing to share there knowledge, and to help others :) :) :) :)

[Beamer]

..anyway,I ask questions as that's how I learn from more seasoned riders on here!



Hehehe...me too, me too......and theres an awful lot of them on here...bless them all......taught me all i know (maybe not alot at the mo) but they are all excellent and always so helpful :) :) :) :)

[Scotty]

If you ever want to experience "headshakes" I'd suggest riding a 2004 ZX-10R in standard trim (NO steering damper and rock hard rear suspension) down a bumpy road at speed... :o :o :o Quite an exciting ride I must say ::) Still exciting after fitting an Öhlins damper and rear shock, but I spend less time wondering which bit of the adjacent scenery I'm about to get launched at... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[Iceman]

If you ever want to experience "headshakes" I'd suggest riding a 2004 ZX-10R in standard trim (NO steering damper and rock hard rear suspension) down a bumpy road at speed... :o :o :o Quite an exciting ride I must say ::) Still exciting after fitting an Öhlins damper and rear shock, but I spend less time wondering which bit of the adjacent scenery I'm about to get launched at... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Headshake aside, I would love to own the ZX10R one day when I save up enough! Of course I also like the R1 and CBR litre classes too!
;)

[Jon_W]

"Head shakes" are nothing to worry about. Your a long way from a full on tank slapper!!

My Sv will shake the bars quite happily when ridden hard on uneaven roads (what! I hear you cry, there are no such things in this coutry!!) but it's always gone in the direction I've been pointing, even the cub will shake it's bars in excitement occasionally....

I'd ride the kawa first and then decide.

[Mark_Able]

I had a couple of "headshakes" on a CBR600 years ago on 2 occasions while accelerating hard over bumpy road while overtaking,but the bike recovered quite quickly,but enough to scare me! Then I had a proper "tankslapper"on a ZZR600 while accelerating in the wet.The back must have fishtailed first then the handlebars started shaking.Within a second or so the whole bike started oscilating violently and I came straight off the seat with the handlbars hitting side to side.I prepared to hit the deck and then somehow it calmed down. Needless to say I slowed down and never had that happen again like that! My wrists were really sore too and I thought I had broken one of them! I've now worked out how each one happened and avoided repeating the same habits by feeling the bike.But I suppose track days are much more agressive and you're more than likely pushing the envelope to induce oscilations,especially on the litre class!
..anyway,I ask questions as that's how I learn from more seasoned riders on here!
:)

Nothing wrong with asking questions, and gaining knowledge. I'd always take what the magazines and More Crap than News says with a large pinch of salt.

I once had a full blown tank-slapper on a 1995 GSXR750, partly due to the radical steering head angle, partly due to road conditions (bumpy corner exit), partly due to throttle position (on), and partly due to my seated position on the bike. Sitting slightly too far back in the seat, whilst giving it the beans, seriously unloads the front end. Add in all of the above, and something is going to go wrong. But as with pretty much all tank slappers, it sorted itself out in a few yards. The following year they fitted a steering damper as standard, along with fuel injection.

The problems you've incurred on the CBR were probably more down to riding style. As regards the ZZR, they had a squidgy rear shock that probably contributed to your problems (along with road conditions).

Scotty's right about the ZX10. It's like riding an ironing board. But I've found similar problems with a lot Kwackers. They are often over sprung, as if they're going to ridden by fat Americans or something... :)

[Mark_Able]

Tank-slappers!!!!.......takes me back to the training session Mark.....didnt actually know what one was....but made Scardey Cat chuckle when i said i thought it was when your 'chest area' slaps about on the tank hehehe.....I will always have visions of the more 'well endowed' people (men included) slapping their anatomy against their tanks hehehehe ;) ;) ;) ;)

You're letting the cat out the bag about our 'training sessions'... ;) ;D

[wiltshire builders]

The stock dampers on bikes are crap. Get a decent one with some adjustment. Crank it up until it stops shaking, then take it back one click. You'll get alot more confident knowing that it's there to save you. Then you can lean it off as much as you like. Don't forget you'll need a fitting kit too. Expect to pay between £250-£350 or around £100 second hand. You might also have to change the srceen brace depending what year your Zx6 is.

You can limit the chances of a shake by changing your riding. Being stiff doesn't help.
Try not to grip the bars too tightly or pull back on them. It will make the front wheel unstable when it goes light. This is probably the cause of the problem.

I agree with Mr Scott about the zx10. But it's also the reason I bought one. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[Iceman]

Yeh,I agree my riding style, or lack of proper control and inexperience led to the above shakes.I've since improved my riding,studied a lot and not had a single problem on the ZX6s' depsite pushing much harder. and relaxing on the bars is paramount! I've bough a copy of the "A twist of the wrist II",and it offers excellent tutorial guides! Well worth a purchase for those seeking more training! :)

[NiteW4tcher]

my 750 shook its head pretty violently once on the a303 about a mile or two after coming out of wincanton, being a lil inexperienced then, i remember being told to throttle out of a tankslap/headshake

problem was the bike had very little left in it ;D

i dropped off the throttle and prepared to hit the deck but somehow the bike just calmed down and came back inline, i had to pull over..............its lucky i dont smoke because id have bankruppted myself with fags ;D

to this day i dont know if the information of powering out of a tankslap is correct

[Mark_Able]

my 750 shook its head pretty violently once on the a303 about a mile or two after coming out of wincanton, being a lil inexperienced then, i remember being told to throttle out of a tankslap/headshake

problem was the bike had very little left in it ;D

i dropped off the throttle and prepared to hit the deck but somehow the bike just calmed down and came back inline, i had to pull over..............its lucky i dont smoke because id have bankruppted myself with fags ;D

to this day i dont know if the information of powering out of a tankslap is correct

Certainly is. And stay relaxed (yeah right)! Keeping your weight forward in the saddle helps a little. ;)

[Col]

Unnerving event for sure. Friends new Blade was terrible until he got sorted with a decent quality damper then with a bit of trial/error got a setting that apparently solved it.
There is a school of thought that tyre wear and unbalance after half life is also a contributory factor.
Always makes me smile when I see the Ducatis with dampers fitted at new.........an admission that, perhaps, all is not quite right :-/

[Scotty]

Always makes me smile when I see the Ducatis with dampers fitted at new.........an admission that, perhaps, all is not quite right :-/
Au contraire, doesn't mean that anything's wrong. You're dealing with the laws of physics (Jim), there's a trade-off between stability and agility - if you want something that's super stable, get a cruiser with a shallow rake angle and long wheelbase, it won't shake its head, but it'll steer like the QE2. Sports bikes have short wheelbases and steep head angles for quick steering, which means less stability meaning less effort required to make it change direction. A damper is needed to keep things under control at high speed - by your evaluation would you say that there's a fundamental design flaw with just about every race bike on the planet?

[Col]

Jim :-? Kirk ? anyways yeah that is a known and correct point made but the answer is probably 'yes'

[Mark_Able]

The only thing wrong with bikes that are set up for the track, is if they don't have a steering damper fitted as standard, i.e. Suzuki GRXR750SRAD as an example. Then there's the bikes that have a fundamental design flaw, i.e. Suzuki TL1000S or R. The SRAD had a chassis and geometry copied from Schwantz's GP bike. It should have been fitted with a damper. The TL had a revolutionary Rotary rear shock (damper) design. The shock worked ok if it had to deal with large pot holes and bumps, but couldn't react quick enough to a series of small ripples. Effectively the shock would seize up, transferring the suspension duties to the front end (which was already busy dealing with it's own issues). So it was felt through the steering on a bumpy road, and if allowed to go unchecked, would eventually lead to a violent tankslapper. Suzuki recalled all their TL's to fit a steering damper, but that was to correct a flaw in the bike (unlike the Ducati). :-?

Pretty much all modern sports bikes have dampers now, because they all want a bike that is going to out-handle the competition. Bikes maybe 10 years old and older, were designed to be more of a compromise. Headshakes are common, but tankslappers are rare. Hence not many had steering dampers. :)

[Jon_W]

Soichiro Honda once commented that steering dampers were there to cure a fault in the frame or suspension design. Who am I to argue!

The problem today is that there is a tendency to look at motorcycle spec sheets like a game of top trumps. who has the most powerful engine? Who has the steepest steering angle? Who has the shortest wheelbase? Who has the least un-sprung mass? For Valenteno Rossi and Co this is vital, but for you or I to go for a sunday ride this is, for the best part irrelivent.

The problem is the top trumps approach has bred a beast of a motorcycle unsuited to road travel which now requires "rider aids" to keep in on the black bit. If we return to Honda's dictum, there is a problem with the road going sportsbike....

[Mark_Able]

I agree. Have a look at Buell for clever design (shame about the motor). Extremely radical head angle, but stabilised by additional gyro effect from the rim mounted disc brake. No need for a steering damper. Clever.... :D