View Full Version : Gear engagement problem
I have a problem with changing into neutral or 1st gear from a standing start.
If I'm moving it doesn't happen but, if I come to a stop I sometimes cannot engage neutral or 1st gear unless I release the clutch about an inch and half from a full clutch depress.
It is an intermittent fault that is happening too often and at inappropriate times (on Mod 2 test)
I sometimes have to turn the engine off to engage neutral or 1st gear
Any ideas???
I have carried out the following maintenance in the last month:
Oil & filter change
New air filter
New iridium plugs
Carb balance
Clutch freeplay adjustment
Battery change
Any ideas on what this problem is caused by - and the remedy pls.
Did it only start happening after you adjusted the clutch? Had a similar problem when I over did the clutch adjustment! Try "unadjusting" it a bit :) just a thought
470four
27-09-11, 06:51 AM
Have you got the right free play on the clutch lever? Sounds like its dragging? Try rocking the bike backwards and forwards, usually frees it up! Failing that try "clicking" into neutral the other way IE down from 2nd or up from 1st?
What grade oil did you use, was it a motorcycle one?
Check the state of your chain.
I don't know what bike you have, but some bikes are prone to this, espcially older ones. Do you sit in neutral with the clutch drawn in?? You have to let the clutch out to spin the box then engage gear.
Did it only start happening after you adjusted the clutch? Had a similar problem when I over did the clutch adjustment! Try "unadjusting" it a bit :) just a thought
I have had the problem before however, it would only affect me going into neutral - (Not 1st gear)
I will try backing the adjustment off a bit - as you suggest.
Suggested freeplay is between 5 & 15mm (it's about 10mm now)
Check the state of your chain.
I don't know what bike you have, but some bikes are prone to this, espcially older ones. Do you sit in neutral with the clutch drawn in?? You have to let the clutch out to spin the box then engage gear.
If the gearbox is in neutral I don't depress the clutch.
Chain & sprockets are in good condition - 500 miles old 'ish
Have you got the right free play on the clutch lever? Sounds like its dragging? Try rocking the bike backwards and forwards, usually frees it up! Failing that try "clicking" into neutral the other way IE down from 2nd or up from 1st?
What grade oil did you use, was it a motorcycle one?
Freeplay is 10mm bang in the middle of the 5-15mm spec. (Haynes manual)
I will try rocking it & 2nd down e.t.c.
Power 1 Racing - 4 stroke motorcycle oil.
Mark_Able
27-09-11, 08:50 PM
Our GS's can suffer similar problems. Not getting neutral is because the clutch is dragging, and no amount of adjustment will cure it. If you do a lot of clutch slipping, as is required for the slow manouevres, the clutch over heats and partially warps the metals. It's the metal plates that cause the dragging. Only solution is new metals, and don't do more than about 10 minutes of slow stuff at any one time. ::)
Not going into gear is a completely different problem. Our GS's sometimes get stuck in neutral, normally resulting in the pupil kicking the crap out of the gear lever to try and get a gear. It never works. If you get the gear while still rolling, it will normally go in. If you're trying to get the gear while stationary, the only solution is to let the clutch all the way out, bring it back in, then it should go in gear. It also happens if you stop in gear, select neutral, then try to back into gear without letting the clutch out in between (normally because you're trying to double-check whether you're in first). So in other words, I don't think there is a problem with your gearbox, just your clutch. :-?
Our GS's can suffer similar problems. Not getting neutral is because the clutch is dragging, and no amount of adjustment will cure it. If you do a lot of clutch slipping, as is required for the slow manouevres, the clutch over heats and partially warps the metals. It's the metal plates that cause the dragging. Only solution is new metals, and don't do more than about 10 minutes of slow stuff at any one time. ::)
Not going into gear is a completely different problem. Our GS's sometimes get stuck in neutral, normally resulting in the pupil kicking the crap out of the gear lever to try and get a gear. It never works. If you get the gear while still rolling, it will normally go in. If you're trying to get the gear while stationary, the only solution is to let the clutch all the way out, bring it back in, then it should go in gear. It also happens if you stop in gear, select neutral, then try to back into gear without letting the clutch out in between (normally because you're trying to double-check whether you're in first). So in other words, I don't think there is a problem with your gearbox, just your clutch. :-?
Thanks Mark - what you have said makes a lot of sense.
I thought that you might know. I will look at the clutch plates as it's costing me a fortune in mod 2 tests. I will check for warping and replace if required.
Mark_Able
27-09-11, 09:13 PM
What bike you got mate? Air-coolies are more prone to it.
What bike you got mate? Air-coolies are more prone to it.
Suzuki GSXR 600 SRAD (2000)
Mark_Able
29-09-11, 05:52 PM
Gearbox should be fine. Clutch is another story... :(
wiltsdan
29-09-11, 06:22 PM
Try a bit more freeplay in the adjustment. Its worth experimenting before you go for the replacement . :-/
Haynes manual not always good advice, Also look for a gixer owners club and ask for advice.(worth a try)
alanTDM
30-09-11, 03:00 PM
Just out of curiosity where are you measuring from? that 5mm-15mm freeplay might be from where the clutch lever is fully out to where it feels resistant when pulled in ,that is roughly about 1mm-1.5mm freeplay at the cable adjuster..
SupeRDel
30-09-11, 11:52 PM
Is it a Hydraulic clutch?
Howz yer fluid level in the master cylinder? Take the top off - do not rely on the window.
Is it a Hydraulic clutch?
Howz yer fluid level in the master cylinder? Take the top off - do not rely on the window.
No - not hydraulic
Cable - wet system - uses the oil in the engine as lube.
[quote author=Mark_Able link=1317071187/7#7 date=1317153055]Our GS's can suffer similar problems. Not getting neutral is because the clutch is dragging, and no amount of adjustment will cure it. If you do a lot of clutch slipping, as is required for the slow manouevres, the clutch over heats and partially warps the metals. It's the metal plates that cause the dragging. Only solution is new metals, and don't do more than about 10 minutes of slow stuff at any one time. ::)
Not going into gear is a completely different problem. Our GS's sometimes get stuck in neutral, normally resulting in the pupil kicking the crap out of the gear lever to try and get a gear. It never works. If you get the gear while still rolling, it will normally go in. If you're trying to get the gear while stationary, the only solution is to let the clutch all the way out, bring it back in, then it should go in gear. It also happens if you stop in gear, select neutral, then try to back into gear without
letting the clutch out in between (normally because you're trying to double-check whether you're in first). So in other words, I don't think there is a problem with your gearbox, just your clutch. :-?
When I was being Mod 2 tested - this was the last hill start that I had to do (after 15 minutes of slow riding round very small roads on an estate in Bristol. The examiner takes you around this estate to check you reactions to quick turn instructions (ensuring you are fully utilising Mirror, Signal, manouvre routine with lots of left and right shoulder lifesavers)
If I have the same problem next time I will release the clutch and re-engage clutch again.
Failing that I will tell the examiner that I have a problem with the bike and turn the bike off and on again. Then I will try to engage neutral again.
As mentioned I had already completed a right turn adverse camber hill start and lots of slow work before.
wiltsdan
01-10-11, 08:29 PM
Thought they had a hydraulic clutch?
Thought they had a hydraulic clutch?
Not as far as I'm aware - no reservoir to fill anyway - bathed by engine oil as far as I am aware.
Thought they had a hydraulic clutch?
Your thinking of the 1000/1100. 600/750 is a cable clutch.
Does the bike select all other gears ok? Do you get false neurals?
The issue is the box is going "dog on dog", to coin an expression! This could be down to several things, including the inherent nature of the box. Problem is you don't know how badly the bike has been abused in the past 11 years.
What I would look at though is the clutch and also the cush drives in the rear wheel. Sometime if these are fubar it can cause funny changing. My GS can do this, but have always found that letting the clutch out a bit whilst finding first works and it will go every time. But in the case of the GS it is inherent as Mark says.
Am happy to have a looksee if you like.
Thought they had a hydraulic clutch?
Your thinking of the 1000/1100. 600/750 is a cable clutch.
Does the bike select all other gears ok? Do you get false neurals?
The issue is the box is going "dog on dog", to coin an expression! This could be down to several things, including the inherent nature of the box. Problem is you don't know how badly the bike has been abused in the past 11 years.
Hi Jon,
Just have problems with engaging Neutral and first.
Will not engage neutral (light on dash does not show neutral is engaged)
and indeed I have checked it and it's still in second gear. The gear will not move down unless as I have said previously I either let the clutch out about an inch and a half or I turn the bike off and re-start Releasing and depressing the clutch again.
I'll PM you about your kind offer of a look see.
What I would look at though is the clutch and also the cush drives in the rear wheel. Sometime if these are fubar it can cause funny changing. My GS can do this, but have always found that letting the clutch out a bit whilst finding first works and it will go every time. But in the case of the GS it is inherent as Mark says.
Am happy to have a looksee if you like.
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