Chain maintenance

[Swanny]

I've been using chain wax on my chain but it looks horrible now. I asked the bloke (nice older brother) in GM Stevens about different ways to lube the chain. He said wax is good because it doesn't fling off but you're supposed to clean it each time before you put more on. Oops :-/

He was explaining the difference between the different products and gave me too many choices :)
I quite like the sound of the dry coat one.

Basically I need to clean all the muck off of mine and re do it

So as some of you lot seem quite knowledgeable about bike stuff I thought I'd see what everyone else suggests.
What do you use??
And what's the best way to clean a chain??

Ta :)

[NoYou]

For cleaning it i use white spirit and an old tooth brush, then rub it over with a rag, then i use Wurth Chain lube, bout £6 from halfords, seems to do the job nicely

[wiltshire builders]

I found the wax to be crap. It gets all clogged up and it's hard to clean off. Put the bike on a padock stand. Get a good de-greasing spray and coat the chain and sprocket. Let it soak in then use a cotton rag to get the loose stuff off. Use a tooth brush to get the stuck on crud off then us your lube of choice. Like G3o said wurth do a good product. Put it on the inside of the chain (the bit that touches the teeth) and leave for as long as possible.

[Senna(Dan)]

I use silkolene, an old electric toothbrush and an old tshirt to clean the chain. Doing commuting miles means alot of love is required to keep the swine clean!
I have used loads of different products and Wurth seems to be the best stuff for me. Castrol was the next best stuff.
It's a minefield, but stick to dry lubes because the other stuff is more graft when it needs cleaning.
Like Dan said, leave it for as long as possible because otherwise you will spending forever getting your wheels clean again.

[Dan505]

oil your chain after a ride as the old crude and oil will be warmer and slightly easier to remove plus i guess due to the heat and expansion the links will be a little further spaced between the o-rings allowing the new oil to penetrate between the links.

my personal method is go for a ride (any excuse) clean crap off with rag and tooth brush, spray oil along rear sprocket and lower half of chain, avoiding over spray on your rear wheel and leave to dry over night to minimise chain fling, i do this ever 200 miles and use Rock oil as it's slightly thicker than others i've seen :)

[Scotty]

I had a can of Wurth dry lube a couple of years ago - no fling on the rear wheel because there was bugger all on the chain, it wore out during the use of that can so never again. >:( I've managed to find some PJ1 blue label lube, brilliant stuff; spray the chain after a ride (as described, but it doesn't penetrate the O-rings) leave overnight and it won't need doing again for ages. Very little rear wheel cleaning needed too. Top stuff , recommended 8-)

[Mitch9128]

Scottoiler, ignore the naysayers, i've seen 30k miles on a sportsbike with one.

[wiggy]

Old bit of diesel on a rag or soke it if possable i use normal grease and work it vinto my chain , i clean my chain with a rag every time before i tighten and relube , i get a little fling but not a much as chain lube and seems to work very very well ,as i have only adjusted my chain teice in 12 months and my sprockets are still like new iv done 3.500 miles on them since fitted .hope this helps ohh and my way is alot cheaper and better for the enviroment . ;D

[Jon_W]

I had a can of Wurth dry lube a couple of years ago - no fling on the rear wheel because there was bugger all on the chain, it wore out during the use of that can so never again. >:( I've managed to find some PJ1 blue label lube, brilliant stuff; spray the chain after a ride (as described, but it doesn't penetrate the O-rings) leave overnight and it won't need doing again for ages. Very little rear wheel cleaning needed too. Top stuff , recommended 8-)

Same here. Found the dry stuff useless. I have silkolene chain lube. Applied to the chain after a ride, it soaks in and dosent fling. Works on non o-ring chain as well.

[big_bird]

Scottoiler, ignore the naysayers, i've seen 30k miles on a sportsbike with one.

I can beat that! Had my Blade from new and just had the original chain and sprockets replaced after 35,000 miles with a Scottoiler fitted. If you plan on keeping your bike for any length of time, they pay for themselves. And if you're a dumb blonde who can't adjust their own chain, it won't need doing between services either ;D

[Mitch9128]

Well i trashed my 9r with 32k on the clock, original c&s, it was heading for at least 36k tho' :P

[Swanny]

Thanks for all the advice :)

I just cleaned it with Wurth chain cleaner and then coated it with Scotty's favourite Wurth dry lube.
It seems to get massive amounts of positive feed back on other websites.
Been thinking about a scottoiler for a while now, now doubt they do a good job


It always amazes me how long chains are, they seem to go on forever :D

[Ducatista]

Scottoiler, ignore the naysayers,

There are downsides to scottoilers too although no doubt they are good for chains.
I have lube all up my back on most of my clothing and and sometimes on my tyre tread.
Anyone who tells you to ignore any bad points is biased.
You should look at both the pros and the cons before coming to a decisions.
Mines leaking at the moment, so the Scottoilers themsleves do need some maintenance themselves and set up and adjustment, although I would totally agree they are great for chain longevity.

[Last Train]

:question

[Ducatista]

A man of few words ;)

[Last Train]

A man of few words ;)

:)


Tis all a bit baffling this chain stuff


:D

[Mitch9128]

Scottoiler, ignore the naysayers,

There are downsides to scottoilers too although no doubt they are good for chains.
I have lube all up my back on most of my clothing and and sometimes on my tyre tread.
Anyone who tells you to ignore any bad points is biased.
You should look at both the pros and the cons before coming to a decisions.
Mines leaking at the moment, so the Scottoilers themsleves do need some maintenance themselves and set up and adjustment, although I would totally agree they are great for chain longevity.

Sounds like you need to turn it down, a badly setup one is worse than none, however a good setup gives none of the above.

[Thorkill_The_Tall]

Chains are sooo 19th century...

Get something with a belt or a shaft.

[Ducatista]

Sounds like you need to turn it down

I normally have it very low as I have a very short chain guard and unfortunately it's messy.


a badly setup one is worse than none

Good I'm glad you agree there can be some problems.
I believe the problem is with the chain guard and not the scottoiler set up.

Firstly I had mine professionally fitted.
They did an awful job for professionals.
They put the touring pack on a bike that was not recommended for it.
They moved the rear numberplate in front of the light (illegal and very stupid).
They put some sticky pads on which came off in a few days and the pipework fell onto the exhaust.
Fortunately the piework was cauterized so it wasn't messy at all.
And that was a professional job.
I got my money back on that.

I've had more problems than you can shake a stick at.
However I would never tell anyone to ignore the experiences or opinions of others as I'm sure lots of people have received many benefits and had good experience.

If you want to offer advice or take a look and let me know how to set it up properly on a bike with a short chain guard then that would be great.
In the meantime I think the fact that they can be difficult to fit and give a lot of problems on some models should be something that's taken into account.

Telling someone to "ignore the naysayers" is saying that no-one else's experience has any validity except yours.

[Jon_W]

I guy in a previous club had one on his show bike. He had huge problems stopping the oil going everywhere. In the end he found that a combination of two small oiling jets in a particular position kept the chan lubed and the bike clean. Basically scottoilers are all about setup and fine tuning. Even if porfessionally installed, the jet could still not be in the perfect place.

[Mitch9128]

Duc, sounds like you have had a bad experience, but at least you don't put it down to the product, but down to the ill fitting by mechanics. By Naysayers, i meant those the 'diss' the product, even though they have had no experience, but relied on the 'word' of others, not those that have one fitted badly. As for assisting in the setup, i can't, mine were both fitted at BIGCC in Wokingham, and were perfect, i always ran them on the lowest setting, apart from in winter/wet i would turn them up a 1/4.

[silly_simon]

I have run a scotoiler on all my large capacity bikes and all fitted by yours truly, taking one off one bike and swapping them over etc, as Mitch say's its all about correct fitting and upto now I have never had a problem apart from one reservoir that didn't work at all and scotoil replaced no questions asked :)

[Flying Half-Dutchman]

I've got a gizmo called a TUTORO. It's a cheap & chearful alternative to a scottoiler. It keeps the chain nicely oiled. But, the downside is that you have to turn it on and off again before & after riding. If you forget, you end up with a puddle of oil below your back wheel. I've done this several times.

[Ducatista]

Duc, sounds like you have had a bad experience, but at least you don't put it down to the product, but down to the ill fitting by mechanics.

I think it's fair to say I've had a fairly bad experience especially as I had professional fitting.
I think it's a great product, but as usual experiences vary for a number of reasons.

I don't think mine is fitted badly now, but it still doesn't work very well i.e. is either very messy or under lubricating the chain.
I'm think it's just the short chain guard, so rather than ill fitting I'm not sure they fit well on all models of bike.

We do have one on a second bike and that is currently leaking as well.

Perhaps I've just been unlucky with them :-/

[cerruti]

Ive been reading this thread with interest as I am undecided over whether to get a scotoiler fitted as I do a lot of commuter miles.

What I am gathering so far is that they can be a disaster if fitted incorrectly, but a godsend if you are lucky with the fit?

[Ducatista]

I wouldn't go as far as to say disaster.
I've still had longer than normal chain use with mine.

But everyone I know personally says they can be mucky (and that includes several professional fittings) and they still need re-filling regularly (unless you get the touring reservoir) so it doesn't save you from that. So for me it's not as clear cut as it is for other people, but I would never dis-regard other people's experiences or opinions.

[Mitch9128]

500 miles avg between fills, and it take literally no more than a minute to fill. Yes you also get some splatter on the rear cowl chain side, depending on flow rate, there are gives and takes, but 33k on the oem chain on a zx9r with one fitted, no adjustment needed in 20k i owned it, outweighs any downfalls for me.

[Ducatista]

and it take literally no more than a minute to fill

Only on the generation game :-)

Find keys
take off seat (find somewhere safe to store it where it won't fall on a spade and get scratched :(
get scottoil bottle
attach feeder tube if not already on bottle
Remove cover from cylinder
Attach bottle to cylinder
Squeeze it in (you cannot do this too fast - like putting oil into a car via a funnel you have to wait for it to go down)
refit tube back on cylinder hole
find rag
wipe up any spilt oil including awkward places behind/below cylinder
put seat cover back on
hang up keys

As usual a bit of exaggeration going on about the pros unless of course Mitch has the McClaren put crew in his garage :-)

It's not a big deal, I wouldn't say it's massively more effort than sticking some wax/oil/spray on a chain either and we all agree both have to be done regularly (unless you buy the touring reservoir but that does not fit on all bikes - I know because I got it put on and then had to had it removed).

As it does require regular refilling - which takes about the same time as oiling/waxing/spraying a chain then this detracts from the benefits IMO.

[Mitch9128]

LOL i had mine on the subframe, not under the seat, easily filled in under a minute. Pull off breather, attach bottle and squeeze hard, pull off and re-attach breather. No mess at all, if you pull off the bottle squeezed it's sucking up oil back in? As the scottoiler cleans your chain as it oils, no need for cleaning either. 1 min every 5-6 hundred miles, versus oiling and cleaning which takes 20-30 if you do it properly, you make it sound a lot harder than it is Duc!

[Ducatista]

you make it sound a lot harder than it is Duc!

No I'm being realistic and have listed all the steps there for you to see. Not everyone can fit the reservoir in the same place as your bike.
My bottles are a little bit oily so I have to wash my hands.
I usually spill a bit so have to clear it up and it's quite difficult to get a rag underneath the reservoir in the space underneath the seat as the oil runs to hard-to get places.

It's perfectly realistic.
Oh and I did knock over either the seat or a spade (can't remember which) and get a scratch on a brand new seat cowl, so there is no point rushing around as then things get damaged and knocked over.

This is entirely realistic and all true.
Do you think I'm making it up? Why would I do that?
Please don't try to dismiss the REAL experiences of other people.
That simply means you think your experiences are somehow "right" and everone else's experiences are somehow "wrong".
If you want to disagree that's fine, but my set up is real and my experiences are real and not made up.

The Honda one is also under the seat as well, so it's not a one-off unusual fit. That one was done professionally so I don't think it's an unusal pace to put the reservoir.

Have a different opinion by all means, but that's how hard it is for me.
I admit to not being a terribly practical person, but I haven't set out to make up stories or make it deliberately more difficult than it needs to me.

BTW - my lock under the seat gets stiff quite regularly so that needs to be oiled/aprayed regularly as well in order to get acess.
I also wash my hands before doing cooking etc.
So that's two more steps that I didn't deliberately fantasize about either.
If I want to fantasize about something I can certainly think of more exciting things than a delilberately difficult scottoiler filling process for Mitch :-)

I'm happy to agree to disagree but it's best people get both sides of the story even if you do think you are the only one who is right.

I don't think most people spend 20-30 mins doing their chains. That IS unrealistic.
They spin the wheel round and spray.
Of course that's not the best way I agree, but your comparison is totally unrealistic.
I would spin my back wheel round and spray and that's it.
Of course I'd need a paddock stand, not because the manufacturer made the bike like that but because I have gone out of my way to make things especially difficult ;)

[Mitch9128]

Duc i am not trying to call you out, or dismiss your experience, your experience is nothing like mine though. That's not an opinion BTW, it's FACT.

[newnut]

when it looks dirty I clean with a hose, not too powerfull, soak with water dispersant for 5 mins and clean with a good degreaser and a rag and for all of about 5 mins. squirt it with copious amounts of dry ptfe chain lube by muc-off, go for a ride, then give it another blast for good measure when the chain is warm. works well for me. no splatter, chain looks clean for ages, well lubed but looks bare. win win.

[Ducatista]

your experience is nothing like mine though

I completely agree that our experiences are completely different, there are a variety of possible explanations for that, but the experiences are still genuine despite being different.

Just cos my epxerience isn't the same as yours doesn't mean it didn't happen or that it's somehow less valid.

Genuine experiences vary and that's why I think folks should see both ends of the range of experiences.

Here's a picture of "splatter" so you can see the extent.
Jacket recently washed in NickWax Tech Wash (but doesn't remove Scottoil).

It does bother me somewhat that I can't buy the nice looking expensive gear that I'd like to because it will just end in a mess. Maybe that's a bit superficial, but yes I'd like to look nice.

[Mitch9128]

Where have i said there is 'NO' splatter? I have in fact said there is splatter, opinions are just that BTW, i can and will dismiss them as bollocks, if i think they are.

[Ducatista]

Of course you can disagree with opinions.

However if you try to claim your opinions are the only ones that are right, valid or true, then I will disagree with you as I have that right too.

Why don't we simply agree to disagree :)

I think people have got the gist that our experience and opinions are at two ends of the spectrum and I think they've now probably received the benefit of the sum of our experience and opinions, so there is nothing more to be gained by continuing to argue.

I didn't come here to argue or score points, just to balance the discussion for the benefit of others and I think we're now done on that.

I appreciate it's very confusing when people have genuine but hugely differing opinions.
I have had the same experience myself when getting opinions on whether to repair or replace a tyre.
I got hugely varying opinions, but all were genuinely held beliefs based on genuine experience.
No-one made anything up or was trying to trick me (why would they?)
In the end I just had to make my own decision.

[Mitch9128]

I accept your apology.

[DC]

I accept your apology.


:)

[Rabb]

Does anyone clean their chain (the dangerous way) - as I do?

[Dan505]

yes Rabb, all those people that aren't fond of their fingers, you know the type...Darwin Award nominees :o

[Nikki]

Does anyone clean their chain (the dangerous way) - as I do?

OK I have to ask how do you clean yours? :-? :)

[Dan505]

OK I have to ask how do you clean yours? :-? :)

probably on the centre stand with the engine running i'm guessing...

[Nikki]

OK I have to ask how do you clean yours? :-? :)

probably on the centre stand with the engine running i'm guessing...

:o :o :o ooh err...not for me!! I love my fingers ;) :)

[470four]

Scottoiler, ignore the naysayers,

There are downsides to scottoilers too although no doubt they are good for chains.
I have lube all up my back on most of my clothing and and sometimes on my tyre tread.
Anyone who tells you to ignore any bad points is biased.
You should look at both the pros and the cons before coming to a decisions.
Mines leaking at the moment, so the Scottoilers themsleves do need some maintenance themselves and set up and adjustment, although I would totally agree they are great for chain longevity.

+1 on Scottoilers lubing everything bar the chain... had two on two differents bikes & found them to be very good at oiling the rear of the bike, frame, plastics, tyre side, numberplate etc...

Tried to reach a happy average between just enough without the chain running dry & too much - still went everywhere... >:(

Even had to make a guard up for my VFR VTEC to stop it lubing the rear disc??!

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n61/santav10/Big%20Blue%20Bus/DSC03479.jpg

FACT: if you drip oil onto a chain wizzing around at christknowswhatspeed it can and will fling off EVERYWHERE.

RUBBISH. Sold the kits and never looked back. They will only benefit people who do a max.60mph, anything approaching spirited riding will see an Environmental Disaster happen on the back of your bike.

Now running Wurth High Performance Dry Chain Lube, the bike gets a quick squirt on the inside and outside of the chain after every run. :)

[SimmyDerbi]

Ive recently been Boiling mine in oil seems to do the job just fine. Cant remember the Name of the oil. but its soild then you heat it up and place into the oil.

[Dex]

I've had scottoilers on my last two bikes.

Fitted by me, setup by me. There is a small amount of oil gets on the rear of my number plate but certainly nothing on my clothing.

The majority of issues seems to be caused in the fitting and the setup. On mine the reservoir needs filling nearer to every 1,000 miles and my chain only seems to need adjusting once between services.

The chain stays clean but sufficiently lubricated, without getting covered in sticky chain lube that attracts detritus and needs cleaning before re lubing.

Duc - if you want to pop round to me in North Swindon I'm more than happy to have a go at tweaking yours and see if we can get it to play ball.


After, literally, years of spraying chain lube I'm now absolutely converted to scottoiler.

[@bj]

I recently fitted a scottoiler after promising myself one for years - and I'm very pleased with it...

So far only getting some very light fine splatter on the wheel rim - I'm thinking that with a bit more fine tuning it may be possible to get this close to zero...

[Conehead]

I've been told to use chain saw oil. It lasts longer, stays cleaner longer and handles well at higher temperatures with minimal mess. Never tried it but this info was provided by local biking school and he did it with his machines.

Any opinions or was he taking advantage of my gullible nature. ;)

[cerruti]

I decided to go for a scottoiler on my ER6. It's early days and Oldfatboy has done some tweaking and fine tuning on it for me....

Fingers crossed, its going to be ok

[Rabb]

I've been told to use chain saw oil. It lasts longer, stays cleaner longer and handles well at higher temperatures with minimal mess. Never tried it but this info was provided by local biking school and he did it with his machines.

Any opinions or was he taking advantage of my gullible nature. ;)

This would make sense -
Chainsaw guide bar oil has the right viscosity and anti-fling properties that are needed.

[Mitch9128]

Chainsaw oil is thick enough, BUT you must invest in the semi-synthetic one NOT the bio chainsaw oil, that one DOES wreck your O rings.

[Ducatista]

Duc - if you want to pop round to me in North Swindon I'm more than happy to have a go at tweaking yours and see if we can get it to play ball.

Thanks Dex, that's very kind of you and much appreciated.
I have quite a lot on my plate right now (Rospa retest and leaking clutch cylinder), but I really appreciate your offer and will bear it in mind.

[lizand]

Scottoilers are definitely the business. Worth every penny!

[Dex]

Duc - if you want to pop round to me in North Swindon I'm more than happy to have a go at tweaking yours and see if we can get it to play ball.

Thanks Dex, that's very kind of you and much appreciated.
I have quite a lot on my plate right now (Rospa retest and leaking clutch cylinder), but I really appreciate your offer and will bear it in mind.

Not a problem - the offer is there anytime. After all, you introduced me to RoSPA and I learned a lot from Paul M! Since I don't get a chance to check every thread all the time feel free to PM or whatever if you want to come visit.