braking in the corners

[Dan505]

Hi peeps,

whats the best way to slow down when in a corner?
was out yesterday and got caught out by a car cutting the bend on a B road and perhaps i was slightly overcooked going into it (within the limit tho) but i swerved to avoid and back again to stay on the road and ended up with a bit of a tank slapper that thankfully sorted itself but wouldn't want to repeat it, anything i could have done to avoid this as really didn't want to brake on the turn.

[Ducatista]

It sounds like you made things worse by trying to avoid using the brakes. It certainly is possible to use the brakes safely.

Maybe you should consider one of the Rider performance days at Castle Coombe. You can learn this kind of stuff and practice it in the safe environment of a track without worrying about on-coming traffic.

[newnut]

na, you jumped in the deep end,best way to learn I was always told. lol. you avoided the colision and didnt come off, good enough in anyones book! you can trail brake etc but in an emergency a lot comes down to just don't panic and jump on the brakes hard, which you did. well done. Josh brooks had a tank slapper last week, put a hole in his tank and smashed his screen, he didn't come off either, now thats incredible!!

[Nikki]

Hi peeps,

whats the best way to slow down when in a corner?
was out yesterday and got caught out by a car cutting the bend on a B road and perhaps i was slightly overcooked going into it (within the limit tho) but i swerved to avoid and back again to stay on the road and ended up with a bit of a tank slapper that thankfully sorted itself but wouldn't want to repeat it, anything i could have done to avoid this as really didn't want to brake on the turn.

I'm certainly not qualified to give you a better answer than Ducatista but maybe think about the way you are approaching corners?

No excuses for the bad driving from the car but could you have done more to help yourself before getting to the bend - considering speed and positioning. Maybe some advanced training would help - it certainly has for me.

[Dan505]

I understand the road positioning POV and how i'm partly responsible for what happenend but i'd like to know whats the best way to lose the speed in a bend, how do i slow safely? should i have accelerated into the swerve? Basically how do you rescue a bend when things go wrong?

[Wes]

Theres a very good guide to cornering on utube, i will try to find it as it covers a lot of different situations, i would use a little rear brake but try to avoid using the front as it will make the bike stand up, limiting your options, keeping the throttle on will keep the rear compressed, and therefore improve the grip level.

[voodoo]

http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp177/scrappinkym/Smiley%20Emoticons/agree.gif some good advice. lifting off the throttle will shift the weight onto the skinny front tyre which obv gives you less contact with the black stuff. I got away with a very mild tank slapper when doing the hazard avoidance on my mod 1 as I grabbed the brake half a second too early - a feat that I won't be repeating again in a hurry so I try to stick with using the rear brake to bring the back end round whilst shaving speed off slowly

[Mitch9128]

It's important to relax when cornering, tensing up can cause target fixation, running wide and hedge surfing. Therefore i suggest having a few beers before going out for a ride.

[NiteW4tcher]

It's important to relax when cornering, tensing up can cause target fixation, running wide and hedge surfing. Therefore i suggest having a few beers before going out for a ride.

;D

[Mitch9128]

Oh and http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/corners/

[Ducatista]

I don't really think a forum is the best place to get this kind of advice because techniques need context.

If you can lose speed by closing the throttle and using the rear brake then that's best.
If you need the front brake then that's going to make the bike "stand up" and go straight on. To counteract that you could brake, lean, brake, lean. You could try both together but you'll then be pushing the limits of your traction.
That sort of thing is really best practised and ideally on a track. If the first time you do it is in an emergency and you grab a handful of front brake then it might not go so well.

As already said, going in at the right speed is the main factor.
I don't always get corners right, in fact I messed up two bends on my recent Rospa retest (which didn't affect my grade) but it wasn't so far off that I couldn't correct it without a drama.

What you need to be learning correctly is "limit point analysis" and the best place to fully explore that safely is on a track.
There are some really good days offered to do that sort of thing, like the Rider Performance days offered by Somerset Road Safety Partnership.

I know where you are coming from but personally I think it's better to concentrate on the observation/planning and going in at the right speed rather than trying to dig yourself out of a problem because you are then putting yourself at the mercy the road surface and your bike performing as you expect.

[Kevinb]

Get some big fat sticky tyres, lean and get your knee down. I piled into the Westbury cement works corner outside Trowbridge too fast two up and got away with it. New underpants required but fun.

[Geordie Stu]

Get some big fat sticky tyres, lean and get your knee down. I piled into the Westbury cement works corner outside Trowbridge too fast two up and got away with it. New underpants required but fun.

I know that corner well :D :o

[Ducatista]

BTW - you might be interested in this company
http://www.i2imca.com/
Which have some training course to do the kind of things you want.
They also hire bikes on some of their courses which gives you more confidence to try the techniques without being worried about pranging your own pride and joy.
The problem is that you do need to practice the techniques to retain the muscle memory etc. so you can't just go once and forget it.

Sorry to harp on about it but that's another reason to concentrate on the planning side, because you can safely practise that ALL the time every time your ride your bike and drive your car.

[wiltshire builders]

If it wasn't lock to lock, then it wasn't a tank slapper!

By the sounds of it there wasn't a lot else you could've done. It's all very well people saying 'slow down' but would that have really made much difference? I'd rather choose good technique over slowing down to cover up loads of mistakes.
Your biggest enemy is being surprised. Your natural instincts take over and it's them that'll get you killed.
Once you're committed to the corner that's pretty much it. If you can't see around it, stay away from the white line.
Only you know if you approached the corner badly and you can't avoid every muppet on the road hell bent on killing you.
From the sounds of it you did ok so don't beat yourself up. Keep it smooth and controlled, gather as much info about the road ahead as possible and you won't go far wrong.

[Dan505]

i know my positioning was pants :-[ but being so close to car whilst leaning was a bit :o

if it banged from side to side so much i still feel the twist in my back 2 days laters i call it a tank slapper or maybe a back slapper :-/

[wiltshire builders]

Maybe you're the slapper....... ;D

[Ducatista]

you can't avoid every muppet on the road hell bent on killing you.

You can certainly have a jolly good go at looking for the right things and being in the right position, gear, speed etc. all of the time.

[Dan505]

Maybe you're the slapper....... ;D

that wishful thinking? :o

[470four]

By the sound of it the only thing you did wrong was to feed the bike a series of strange commands that made it try to go forwards, backwards & sideways all at the same time. :D

I have ridden a series of '70's & '80's steel-framed bikes that would pull the old twangy rubber-frame ass-twitcher in most corners where you were going Too Fast - it was simply a reminder that you were taking the piss & to slow down before you hurt yerself. ;)

That end result of that first few seconds where you are aware that a car/bicycle/future roadkill is heading straight for you depends on your reaction times, and your natural reaction to such a situation?

Brake?

Turn?

Turn the other way?

Slur a Polish-sounding swearword wide-eyed whilst trying to decide between the hedge or on-coming traffic?

Fate will decide if you have made the right choice. DONT ride beyond your own capabilities or you will get found out! One day that corner you know so well will have gravel,diesel, tree branches or an animal sat in the middle of it? The roads are far from predictable & given the tragically poor standard of todays road users we do well to keep ourselves alive.

Whatever you did - it was the right thing and nobody got hurt! Your bike may have tried to stick its head up its own ass but who can blame it? ;)


Ride safe. 8-)

[Mark_Able]

I have to agree with Mr Wiltshire Builders. We all cock up our line from time to time, and know we could have done a better job of corner judgement, but it's how you get yourself out of trouble that counts. Although you can get away with a certain amount of braking when the bike is tipped in (front included), it has to be done with care and be progressive. Any snatching of the brakes will have the tyres struggling to keep traction, and at the same time, the bike will react more violently. But smooth progressive braking is probably the last thing your body is trying to do, when you've got a muppet driver heading towards you on your side of the road. Most folks will panic and snatch. Disaster. What you did was to take evasive action, which if it had been a bit smoother, was probably the right course of action. The 'slapper' was probably triggered by an over-enthusiastic hazard avoidance, maybe coupled with another control error, like on/off throttle, or dabbing the brakes, or possibly pulling the clutch in (many people do when they panic). I would be more inclined to practice taking evasive action in a bend. It can be practiced safely on the road, just by counter-steering one way then the other. Pick a nice empty bend, that maybe has something like a drain cover half way round. Aim towards it as if you were riding normally, then take a swerve to avoid. Best to do it when there's no other traffic around... :)

[Mark_Able]

Oh, and you can brake in corners progressively, as long as you're prepared to keep counter-steering to keep the bike leant over. Because bikes have a tendency to 'stand-up' when braking mid corner, you have to be prepared to apply more pressure to the inside bar to keep the bike leant over. It should not be tried with any serious lean-angles, but maybe with gentle lean angles to begin with. Incidentally, when racing, a lot of riders (me included) would 'turn in' on the brakes, as the steeper steering head angle would aid the bike to turn quicker. When braking, the front of the bike dives, and the rear rises, steepening the angle the forks meet the road, leading to a quicker steering bike. When the bike is leant over to a serious angle, the only way to reduce speed safely is by closing the throttle. Even then, it has to rolled off and on extremely smoothly, as sudden off/on throttle will have the tyres losing traction.

[Dan505]

Thanks for the advice guys & gals. Thanks for the explanation Mark, think maybe i did roll off a bit? :-/

At least i now feel comfortable that i did the right thing but could have been less aggresive with the bars. Seriously thanks, i'm feeling bit happier with the bike now

[Gamer]

"Twist of the wrist 2" - good movie explaining a bit what not to do. Very hard in real life to repeat.
I am still learning, but adding throttle is better than braking, but our instinct say otherwise :(
When braking (front or rear/brakes or gears) weight goes forward and bike goes wide. You can't cheat physics and that's why we train our "survival reactions" to avoid danger by moving load to bigger, rear tire. With this in mind approach next turn and try convince your mind to not panic, but use physics to save you.
Like I said I am still learning. 8-)

[Conehead]

very usefull link I thought you might like. Not exactly braking but same principle. :D :D :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlfN9Z6IlI0&feature=g-vrec

[Swanny]

Cheers Conehead that was interesting

[Conehead]

Dan505, got it sorted. Just do what the link does. Easy as pie. ;D ;D ;D ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCGaQMgkzw8&feature=related

[Dan505]

holy sh#t! thats mental! :o

[Swanny]

My mate used to do slow speed circles and figures of 8 in the pub car park on his superdream :o
Amazing to watch

[470four]

My mate used to do slow speed circles and figures of 8 in the pub car park on his superdream :o
Amazing to watch

I used to do slow EVERYTHING on my Superdream, lol ;D ;D

[Mark_Able]

Finally something a Superdream is good at... ;D