View Full Version : Knee down/ riding position
leecooke1985
12-08-12, 08:13 PM
Right here's the dilemma. Ball of foot on outside of peg, foot pivoted in do heel on guard. Bum cheek off the seat. Right elbow towards floor left arm pretty straight, both arms relaxed. Trying to kiss mirror. Knee pushed out however only at about 45 degrees as leathers little too tight.
Result: my knee about 4-6 inches from ground, no "chicken " strips on tyre....
Why no knee down!!!?? As embarrassing as it is to admit.
How much lean angle does a k7 gsxr have? I feel at the limit.
The lean angle isn't the key thig, it's how far you can hang of the bike. If you hang off enough the bike can actually not lean much at all and you'll still get the result
That's my understanding from watching and reading - never tried it myself, don't really see the point :)
leecooke1985
12-08-12, 08:33 PM
Yeah I know what you mean, want to achieve this as I'd like to see the bike as a sport to enjoy not just a hobby.
I feel like I'm really hanging off but it's literally those last few inches. As weird as this sounds I tried my wife's leathers in and although I couldnt do them up I could bend and move my legs do much more than in mine.. Lol :)
I think I need some looser leathers. Or at least that'll be the excuse I'll use for now. ;)
Are you trying this on track or on the roads? The track is the best place for these fun and games, a far safer environment and you won't get nicked for your troubles either. If you are trying it on track the best thing to do is stop trying, you won't be concentrating on what you should be doing, which is getting round a lap as well as you can (not necessarily as fast as you can) Practice being consistent and hitting your braking and turning markers every time, you'll speed up and getting your knee down will then come naturally. Spending all your time and energy trying to get your knee down will have you riding more slowly, looking like a twat and possibly falling off! If you're trying on the road you're just making yourself a liability - knock it on the head and book a trackday 8-)
goz1960
12-08-12, 09:29 PM
The lean angle isn't the key thig, it's how far you can hang of the bike. If you hang off enough the bike can actually not lean much at all and you'll still get the result
That's my understanding from watching and reading - never tried it myself, don't really see the point :)
+1 what is the point?.
Conehead
12-08-12, 09:32 PM
I find it pointless and just showboating. I think on the road it is also dangerous. Dont see the point and not interested in doing this personally.
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
Each to their own, but i luurve a bit of scratching out, nothing to with showing off, just part of my biking, speed is the key, or the correct speed/gear for the corner or roundabout, its a bit like finding the balance point, mcn do a really good vid on utube worth a watch. :)
I used to struggle on the roads to get my knee down and found that on my first ever track day I was getting my knee down by lunch time. Ever since then it's just become natural. Never been back on the road since. Track days are the way forward :-)
leecooke1985
12-08-12, 11:07 PM
Thanks for all the comments, I am definitely in need of a track day.
The point to me is definitely just to add to the whole biking experience and be as proficient as possible.
Guess I'll maybe see some of you on the track :)
Thanks for all the comments, I am definitely in need of a track day.
The point to me is definitely just to add to the whole biking experience and be as proficient as possible.
Guess I'll maybe see some of you on the track :)
Or out and about mate, where are u based?
i was same as you wanted to do it spent hours going round a quiet roundabout couple inches of the floor till finally it happened then it just seemed so easy dont know why i had struggled. went out bought some sparky knee sliders wore them out the following night, and have never tried since. i know the roads not the place for it but its part of the biking experience have ticked the box and no longer need to do it nothing to prove, have done a few track days and dont even try there as concentrate more on the riding and enjoying the day. be patient while trying when it happens you will wonder why you struggled so long and what all the fuss is about :)
leecooke1985
14-08-12, 10:09 PM
Cheers vinny, think your definitely right. Wes I move to Wesbury in two weeks time. You know some good areas?
wiltshire builders
15-08-12, 02:06 PM
Any sportsbike rider who claims to have never thought about trying to get their knee down is a liar.
Cheers vinny, think your definitely right. Wes I move to Wesbury in two weeks time. You know some good areas?
Yes mate, more around the Bristol area really, but we can sort something out :)
leecooke1985
15-08-12, 10:03 PM
Sounds good I'll let you know when ive moved.
leecooke1985
16-08-12, 06:03 PM
To own and ride a sport bike and then say what's the point in getting knee down is like owning a 4x4 in London. Why have a 4x4 in the city when you'll never take it off road? Having something and not using its full potential is abserd.
I have a super intelligent child but I don't want him to do well at school...same as:
I have a sport racing bike but I don't want to ride it properly. Just saying... ;)
To own and ride a sport bike and then say what's the point in getting knee down is like owning a 4x4 in London. Why have a 4x4 in the city when you'll never take it off road? Having something and not using its full potential is abserd.
I have a super intelligent child but I don't want him to do well at school...same as:
I have a sport racing bike but I don't want to ride it properly. Just saying... ;)
Getting your knee down doesn't mean your riding the bike properly. It means your planting your knee on the floor :]
Don't get me wrong i'm all for getting on your knees for a play, but the act of getting your knee down doesn't make you go any faster or have better form through corners. Was out the other day and followed a CBR1000rr and 996 ridden by two people scraping their knee on the floor every corner, i proceeded to fly past them, on a CB500, still sat completely in line with the bike and disappear into the distance.
By all means go and play on a roundabout and knacker the sliders but don't try to justify it saying it will mean your using your bikes potential. When you can match lap times set by Rossi on the same bike you will be using its full potential!
Yes its fun, yes it looks cool, provided the bike isn't still bolt upright, and yes, by all means go and do it. But admit its purely because you want to get your knee down, don't wind all the crap about getting more from the bike and using it as it is supposed to be used around it!
Now!! Go find a roundabout!
Jonesy94
17-08-12, 12:39 AM
To own and ride a sport bike and then say what's the point in getting knee down is like owning a 4x4 in London. Why have a 4x4 in the city when you'll never take it off road? Having something and not using its full potential is abserd.
I have a super intelligent child but I don't want him to do well at school...same as:
I have a sport racing bike but I don't want to ride it properly. Just saying... ;)
Getting your knee down doesn't mean your riding the bike properly. It means your planting your knee on the floor :]
Don't get me wrong i'm all for getting on your knees for a play, but the act of getting your knee down doesn't make you go any faster or have better form through corners. Was out the other day and followed a CBR1000rr and 996 ridden by two people scraping their knee on the floor every corner, i proceeded to fly past them, on a CB500, still sat completely in line with the bike and disappear into the distance.
By all means go and play on a roundabout and knacker the sliders but don't try to justify it saying it will mean your using your bikes potential. When you can match lap times set by Rossi on the same bike you will be using its full potential!
Yes its fun, yes it looks cool, provided the bike isn't still bolt upright, and yes, by all means go and do it. But admit its purely because you want to get your knee down, don't wind all the crap about getting more from the bike and using it as it is supposed to be used around it!
Now!! Go find a roundabout!
haha i did chuckle when reading this,
you make a valid point G3o
it is purely for ****s a giggles, its fun, it looks cool and it gives you something to brag about. But your right, you can take that corner just as fast if your knees are gripping the tank as you can when your knee is dragging along-side you.
down to rider preference at the end of the day, personally, i enjoy watching people bank the bike right over scrapping their knee and i'd LOVE to be able to get it down, and wont give up trying until i succeed lol
leecooke1985
17-08-12, 10:36 AM
So when watching the professionals they are all getting their knee down as it aids them in working out how much lean angle they have left so as not to push the bike past it's limits.
Yes, anyone can ride equally as quick without getting knee down however they will not have a physical feeling as to how much they are leaning and therefor, could, lean the bike too far resulting in them dropping the bike.
To mention Rossi and the like, they all use their knee as a pointer to how far they are pushing the bike.
Obviously I will not be pushing the bike to its limit and am not making out that I want the knee down for any other reason than self gratification, however those that do race correctly all state that the knee down is safer as it allows the bike to be held upright thus allowing more acceleration out of the corners as the contact patch is greater.
I may be wrong but after reading racers testimonials that seems to be the common consensus.
Hanging off the bike allows you to reduce the amount of lean the bike needs to go round the corner. In normal conditions you are not pushing the bike to its maximum lean angle whether you are hanging off or not. This is why in wet weather you are better off moving a bit off the saddle so you don't have to lean the bike quite so much as you have less grip. Racers do it so they can get to the maximum lean angle for their bikes, but I would suggest its only a benefit for the track.
Squashed_Fly
17-08-12, 12:11 PM
It is big, it is clever, and it is a rite of passage. However it isn't so that you can find the bikes limits. If you were close to doing that, you'd already be racing. On the track, your knee will go down without trying as the tarmac is grippier and you can take the right lines as no oncoming traffic. On the road, you have to overcompensate for the fact your bike isn't being pushed at all. Ideally, you'll bein 3rd gear, at about 30-35mph.
Rossi is banked over, practically lying it down at well over 120mph.... If you can take highworth roundabout that fast, you won't need to ask how to get your knee down! ;D
So when watching the professionals they are all getting their knee down as it aids them in working out how much lean angle they have left so as not to push the bike past it's limits.
Yes, anyone can ride equally as quick without getting knee down however they will not have a physical feeling as to how much they are leaning and therefor, could, lean the bike too far resulting in them dropping the bike.
To mention Rossi and the like, they all use their knee as a pointer to how far they are pushing the bike.
Obviously I will not be pushing the bike to its limit and am not making out that I want the knee down for any other reason than self gratification, however those that do race correctly all state that the knee down is safer as it allows the bike to be held upright thus allowing more acceleration out of the corners as the contact patch is greater.
I may be wrong but after reading racers testimonials that seems to be the common consensus.
I know the science of it. That wasn't my point. You were trying to justify your antics based on "using its full potential". The real reason, as you've just said, is for personal gratification. Which is fine. On the road if you reach the very limit of a bike, frankly, you're a muppet! If anything were to happen you've left nothing in reserve to get out of the situation.
I wasn't condemning you for wanting to KD I was merely saying, don't try and wrap it in crap, you want to get your knee down to say "I got my knee down". Absolutely nothing wrong with that, crack on!!!
I don't think its clever, cool or a rite of passage to being a biker. Anyone who knows the whys and wherefore's about it won't be impressed at all. You can do it on a Goldwing so why is it such a big deal on a sportsbike? The racers do it on track for a reason, there's no advantage in doing it on the road. Too many people get sucked into believing its the thing to do. It is'nt.
All my opinion of course before the blinded masses shout a deluge of arguments back :D ;)
Nico_babe
17-08-12, 02:07 PM
I think you all need to grow up and just ride cause its fun and we enjoy it. If you get your knee down bonus, if not.......... bonus, your still on a bike riding.............
Squashed_Fly
17-08-12, 04:22 PM
I don't think its clever, cool or a rite of passage to being a biker.
You ride a BMW. What would you know about cool? :P
Only joking of course! ;)
I don't think its clever, cool or a rite of passage to being a biker.
You ride a BMW. What would you know about cool? :P
Only joking of course! ;)
Your're so last century SF ;D ;D
goz1960
17-08-12, 07:15 PM
I think you all need to grow up and just ride cause its fun and we enjoy it. If you get your knee down bonus, if not.......... bonus, your still on a bike riding.............
I think this just about says it all.
I don't think its clever, cool or a rite of passage to being a biker.
You ride a BMW. What would you know about cool? :P
Only joking of course! ;)
Surely the easiest comeback was "and what do you ride SF?" :p
Your're so last century SF ;D ;D
cerruti
17-08-12, 07:27 PM
Why have a 4x4 in the city when you'll never take it off road? Having something and not using its full potential is abserd.
Why is it absurd? :o
I drive a 4x4, it never goes off road, never tows anything - it's mostly used for school runs and shopping (and the occasional long distance outing)... why is that a problem?
Off topic I know, and Im not wishing to start a 4x4 debate either, Im just curious why you think its relevant ;)
Squashed_Fly
17-08-12, 07:33 PM
Currently, I'm riding a 2011 gator... I've inherited it from one of the pro riders
leecooke1985
17-08-12, 11:18 PM
Why have a 4x4 in the city when you'll never take it off road? Having something and not using its full potential is abserd.
Why is it absurd? :o
I drive a 4x4, it never goes off road, never tows anything - it's mostly used for school runs and shopping (and the occasional long distance outing)... why is that a problem?
Off topic I know, and Im not wishing to start a 4x4 debate either, Im just curious why you think its relevant ;)
I ride a gsxr but I don't ride it like pros. Nothing wrong with owning 4x4 but the only point I was making is I own a bike that I want to use the way it was designed to be used.
You don't have a 4x4 because you like off roading, but because you like it which is fine. It was just an example.
I use 4x4 as example as they are so expensive to own compared to a large family car.
Hope you know what I mean. :)
camera.op76
24-08-12, 11:44 AM
Set yourself up before the corner. Arms relaxed, counter steer, and lay on the tank, may feel weird at first.
Years ago I didnt just get my knee down, I got the rest of me down too! ;D
+1 what is the point?.
None whatsoever but it makes the lads envious when grannies do it. ;D
I would never dream of getting the knee down on the roads though. I'm too aware of my own mortality at this stage to be messing about and would want to be in complete control if that car round the bend happened to be in my way. :o
Uber Dave
31-08-12, 06:15 PM
Again with the knees down thing.
To make a point I dont hardly move around at all on my R6 and ask anyone on here who knows me, I am anything but slow in the bends! Getting your knee down as Scotty said means you are not concerntrating 100% on the road and more on your body/knee. I need every split second of concentration I have for road riding when going quick, sod shifting around.
To make my point, this is me. I did the video to test the camera mounted where it was but it proves my point. I was hardly loitering and those are some quite impressive lean angles, but I dont move at all!
http://youtu.be/lKHPZSlVX38?hd=1
What camera did you use mate?
Uber Dave
31-08-12, 06:26 PM
What camera did you use mate?
Thats a Contour GPS http://contour.com/products/contour-gps
Mark_Able
05-09-12, 09:32 PM
The first bike I got my knee down on was a Honda CG125. I then managed it on a Honda MT50, MTX125 (both with nobblies), and then a Yamaha FZR1000. I used to do knee down everywhere, on every bike I owned, just for the hell of it. I even got my knee down turning in my driveway. Then I went racing, and found that I would hardly ever get my knee down, apart from the odd dab to determine lean angle. I've never 'saved' the bike on my knee (most mere mortals couldn't). Did it look good on the track? Of course. Does it look good on the road? Not to me anymore. Sorry, but it just looks like someone's trying too hard. However, along with wheelies, stoppies, riding side-saddle, etc, if it gives you a giggle then it's worth having a go. ;)
One word of warning though. I had a instructor that used to bragg about getting his knee down. Was always a bit mysterious as he never wore knee sliders. Then one day he turns up with some bright yellow shiny new knee sliders. He disappears lunchtime (unusual), then returns half an hour later. End of the day he says he can't get his knee down, could I tell him what he's doing wrong. So I follow him to the local roundabout, and find he's in too low a gear and not hanging off enough. I say this to him, and he asks if he could follow me to see how I do it. So I circulate a couple of times on my old Fazer 600, start scraping said knee, then am confronted with 'tother instructor lying in the road with his bike on top of him! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Couldn't stop laughing at the time, and still can't help myself now... :)
I have tried my knee down once or twice now, i can't tell you how close i came cause i was concentrating. Bad thing is my fav side for turning is going left where as we go right round the roundabouts.
I think my problem is carrying enough speed as i am concious about running wide if i don't get it right.
leecooke1985
14-09-12, 10:41 PM
I am about 4 inches away now... Lol. But to be honest I have just bought new leather pants and they don't have knee sliders on.however with my old trousers I can hardly get knee out. With new ones I can stretch it right out.
Now I'm left with dilemma. Do I try scraping knee in new leathers? Will it go terribly wrong without sliders? Or just push further with old leathers I can hardly move in with sliders probably ending up on my arse?? Lol.
Choices choices..
goz1960
15-09-12, 02:40 PM
If your that desperate to get your knee down (go to church)
If your that desperate to get your knee down (go to church)
and pray 8-)
leecooke1985
15-09-12, 06:11 PM
Haha, fair one, sounds like a plan.
Mark_Able
15-09-12, 09:12 PM
I have tried my knee down once or twice now, i can't tell you how close i came cause i was concentrating. Bad thing is my fav side for turning is going left where as we go right round the roundabouts.
I think my problem is carrying enough speed as i am concious about running wide if i don't get it right.
If you're worried about running wide, you're not doing it right. Get your body position sorted before you lean. Make sure you're hanging off a lot further than you think (I'd have the seat under my thigh, so my backside isn't even in contact with the seat). Settle into a nice big roundabout with little traffic. Keep in a higher gear than you think, to keep the revs lower than you think (you don't need loads of power). Get the bike over to a point you feel comfortable, then give it a little extra push on the right handle bar and it'll dip in for the knee-down experience. If you're worrying about running wide, you're not counter-steering (pushing the inside bar). To circulate continuously with knee on deck, keep the pressure on the inside handle bar. Keep looking well ahead, not just in front of your front wheel. You MUST have warm tyres. Don't go out and try it on the first roundabout you come to. Throttle control has to be gentle, just to maintain speed. If it goes wrong, don't blaim me... ;) ;D
wiltshire builders
16-09-12, 05:31 PM
If it goes wrong, don't blaim me... ;) ;D
You should use that quote as a motto for the school.
Mark_Able
17-09-12, 08:52 PM
If it goes wrong, don't blaim me... ;) ;D
You should use that quote as a motto for the school.
;D Yeah, good idea... ;D
billinom8
19-09-12, 12:11 AM
Just read this through and was surprised that not many mentioned Tyre warmth. But nnobody mentioned the fact that if old bill see you it's a fine and possible points depending if said bill is an asshole or not.
I have tried and failed to get knee down for years, I know my body position is bad and that I need to trust the tyres more. But when I am riding around the outside of people sliding their knees - on track- do I really need to do it ?
One day it will happen but I can see it being by accident and I hope not followed by elbow, helmet and arse.
Get your name down for Llandow :)
Got my knee down in wales on saturday :-D
A fellow gixer rider took me from on here, was amazing the roads, loved it
Mark_Able
24-09-12, 10:05 PM
Well done. Hope the advice helped... ;)
Actually i kinda just forgot everything and just did it, kinda took some tips from ben infront of me and looked at his body position. Was good, i crapped myself when i did it and nearly crashed haha
leecooke1985
04-10-12, 07:46 PM
Happy days!! Glad it's as important to others as it is to me... Good drills 8-)
StreetHippo
06-10-12, 05:47 PM
Billinom8s: why is it an instant fine? Never heard that before :-?
Stu
Billinom8s: why is it an instant fine? Never heard that before :-?
Stu
Its classed as riding/driving without due care which is a fixed peno and 3 pts, wheelies however are in a different league, dangerous riding/driving 1 yr ban :o
I have tried and failed to get knee down for years....
Get your name down for Llandow :)
Get your name down for some special coaching at Llandow Simon, it'll be free.. ;) 8-)
hmmmmm coaching or "sharking"?????? :-/
Coaching free of charge with a view to passing flick if you can get into the fast group ;) ;D
I'm just going to leave this here.....
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/teleSV650/leanage3.jpg
Yes that is a GS500.... proof that you can get yer knee down on anything!!! ;D
camera.op76
03-11-12, 12:36 AM
I'm just going to leave this here.....
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/teleSV650/leanage3.jpg
Yes that is a GS500.... proof that you can get yer knee down on anything!!! ;D
Knee down riding the celing I'm impressed ;D
getting the knee down or getting off on that last pic? :o
Mark_Able
06-11-12, 08:45 PM
Yeah, done a GS500... And a CG125, and a YBR125, and a MTX125, and a MT50, and a Fazer 600, and a ...
I think it's cooler to get the pegs down though. Even cooler is pegs and exhaust. Even cooler is pegs down on someone elses Dullville whilst turning up my driveway... ;D
gixxer you done it yet?? Never herd of anyone getting a fine for it, especially if you find a quiet roundabout like in an industrial estate on a Sunday. To some it is important when you can't do it, I hate the way people always jump in on this site with negative comments when someone asks a question. I for one was sooooo excited the first time my knee touched down! good luck with it! Oh and dont try it without sliders, they are designed to do what they say.... SLIDE. you'll rip anything else! lol
leecooke1985
22-12-12, 11:09 AM
Hey newnut not been on here for ages as been away on a horrible course at work. Not had much chance to get out on bike really. But back now so can get back in to it.
I'm running standard battlax bt014 and they're not great, looking to buy some Pirelli diablo rosso 2 for next year to have some fun on as heard they're awesome!
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