Yamaha Yzf600r Thundercat gearbox fix thread

[supermancss]

I have started the mammoth task of getting my bike in pieces so I can first take a look at the gearbox then secondly, hopefully, fix it.

Few start off pictures shall we?
http://s15.postimage.org/k8oxuk58n/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/k8oxuk58n/)

http://s15.postimage.org/ygj7wy7bb/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/ygj7wy7bb/)

So got all fairings off that I need to. Ive got the sprocket cover off. Disconnected the battery and drained the oil.

Next session will be drain coolant, remove radiator, water pump, piping etc. Then remove the exhaust. Remove petrol tank and start to strip the Carbs down on the engine.

[Dan505]

safer/easier to take tank off now before you start messing with the rest?

good luck with it tho

[Scotty]

DON'T remove the water pump before dropping the engine out! That'll leave a big hole into your gearbox that any crap can get into, even if you're splitting the engine you still don't want anything untoward inside it.
Someone may have mentioned already somewhere, give your exhaust header clamp nuts a good spray with WD40 or similar and let them soak for a while, they may not have been disturbed since the bike was new and a snapped exhaust stud is a pain in the arse >:(
If there's a garage close by it might be worth asking if you could push it round there for them to use a rattle gun to loosen the clutch centre nut and your front sprocket nut too, you could struggle with them otherwise (ask first and if they will, take off the clutch cover and remove the pressure plate and all the friction plates, then refit the cover to push it round. Either that or borrow a compressor and rattle gun from someone)

[supermancss]

Will brute force work too? I am nowhere near pushing distance of a bike garage or any mechanics garage. I'll keep mister water pump on then but take his arms(pipes) off.

Anyone any idea how much the engine will weight roughly in KG? Bikes whole weight is 187kg.

[Scotty]

If you can get sufficient leverage then pure torque will do it, but you may need a breaker bar a metre long and maybe a lump hammer to assist by giving the back of the socket a tap when it's loaded up. Use a length of wood through the rear wheel to lock it against the swingarm.
The engine will probably be getting on for half the mass of the bike. Unless you're unfeasibly strong and dexterous it's a 2-person job to remove, refitting is easier with three.

RTFM will really help, do that first....

[Mitch9128]

You have a garage...yes? You're not doing this outside your house shirley?

[Jon_W]

Get the exhaust off. Soak it in WD40 for days, then tackle. Is going to be the worst bit.

Agreed with Scotty, wedge the read wheel and with a breaker bar and hammer, shock the sprocket nut off. If you can VERY carefully apply heat to the nut, it will break any thread lock in there.

As to the engine, I imagine that it is going to be the better part of 100kg. You'll need two or three people to get it out the bike safely.

[Dan505]

RTFM will really help, do that first....

Excuse the interruption guys but whats RTFM? Only ask cause might have to have mine in bits

[Mitch9128]

Really Tight Flux Manipulator.

[Dan505]

Aint that stupid Mitch.....an it aint a deloren either ;)

[Snowy]

RTFM will really help, do that first....

Excuse the interruption guys but whats RTFM? Only ask cause might have to have mine in bits


Read The Fxxxing Manual

[Dan505]

:-[ thanks :-[

[Beamer]

Considering this section is called Technical help etc etc RTFM is ummmm not a very subtle way of saying 'purchase the manual and have a read through'
Also, youtube is an excellent way of finding stuff out......but there are lots of people on here who like hearing about the challenges others face when trying to fix their bikes and turn to those of you who really do have some expert knowledge on different problems faced.
I know I turn to one or two of the clever bikey types who know loads in the hope of gaining a little insight into the problems a manual doesnt tell you about. :P :P :P

[goz1960]

Considering this section is called Technical help etc etc RTFM is ummmm not a very subtle way of saying 'purchase the manual and have a read through'
Also, youtube is an excellent way of finding stuff out......but there are lots of people on here who like hearing about the challenges others face when trying to fix their bikes and turn to those of you who really do have some expert knowledge on different problems faced.
I know I turn to one or two of the clever bikey types who know loads in the hope of gaining a little insight into the problems a manual doesnt tell you about. :P :P :P




WELL SAID.

[supermancss]

Today ive been out and bought lots of wood. Made myself a new work bench. Will post pics up. Decided I needed somthing to put the engine on when working on it!!

Im not exactly worlds strongest man but could lift it up onto a bench without major struggle at around 100kg.

[NiteW4tcher]

i lifted my engine into my van on my own ohhh eat weetabix ;D

[mick_benson]

If your stuck I do have large breaker bars,a toque wrench or two and compressor and knocking gun, not short of tools :-)

[alanTDM]

The clutch centre nut is torqued to 70nm (about 56ftIb) but there is a lock tab washer on it aswell.
i took my TDM clutch off few months ago no problem got a clutch holding tool to do the job.
Where are you i got a Haynes manual you can have for the Thundercat,plus i think the clutches are the same if im correct
It will be easier to undo the torqued nut ie clutch with engine in the frame

[stretchie_]

Have a read of this mate

http://www.offwidth.co.uk/bike/cat/engine.html

It's what I followed the first time I took my Thundercat engine out.

I've lost your number by the way because I'm a tool so drop me a text and we'll sort something out if you want some help, it's not the weight of the engine it's the shape that's the killer, I got mine in and out of the boot of a Yaris on my own but to drop it out and put it back in the frame I'd say you want two or three people. You really want someone on the jack, someone taking the weight of the engine and another watching so they can spot if you've forgotten to undo anything and to tell the Jack person to stop.

Oh, I have a rattle gun too that will probably come in handy

; ) Especially on the nut holding the rotor on

[goz1960]

Hows it coming on ash, no update this week?.

[supermancss]

Ended up buying a new car so the bike took a step back, Will be getting back onto it this weekend and hopefully getting the engine out fully!

Bench picture http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/527709_10150624414426493_602861492_9371016_1811849 342_n.jpg

Sturdy as a rock!

[supermancss]

few issues with taking the carbs off. Cant get my fat hands or fat head to see where the allen holding the clasp on numbers 3+4. (far right and right center)

tempted to just lift the engine out with them still attached and then take it off if required after ive got the engine out??

Any issues with doing this, ie damaging the carbs or anything else if any spilled (presuming there will be fuel still in the carbs.)

Thanks.

[njl]

There will be fuel in the float chambers at the bottom of the carbs. The main issue would be clearance / access to lifting points when removing the engine - I would say if you are happy they are not in the way or will get damaged when hoisting the engine out they could stay in place. Make sure all the lines and cables going to them are detached before seprtating of course.

The fuel in them will gum up over time. Going over into other angles while engine out may let some of the fuel run into the top end and thin out the engine oil. Given what you have coming up that'll be changed anyway. There should be drains on the bottom of each float bowl if you want to drain the fuel out of them first.

Once you have them off the engine of left on with the airbox off get some plastic bags, or paper towel to fill the openings (venturi?)'s so any dirt or dropped nut, washer etc doesn't go find a new home near your inlet valves or top of piston.

[stretchie_]

Alright Ash, how's it going?


Don't forget I have stuff I could bring around to help you out, like a rattle gun ; )

[supermancss]

Engine out :
http://i46.tinypic.com/14joxnp.jpg

Carbs off:
http://i49.tinypic.com/1zoayvr.jpg

Bottom sump casing off for a sneak peak:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2ps2grc.jpg

F*ck. Gears completely nackered and snapped to pieces, no idea what has caused it!!
Pieces of the cog that I managed to scrape out the bottom of the sump.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2evxocn.jpg


Anyone know if this is worth repairing, should that be the only part thats damaged?

[NiteW4tcher]

ouch :o would it not be easier/cost effective to source a new engine? and just drop that in

[Jon_W]

Ooooeeerrrrr...... that looks nasty.

You'll have to take the sump off to fully assess that. If the damage is only there and the gears are easy to source then I'd repair. If not a new engine gearbox is your best option. Just check that this isn't a known weakness with these as you could buy another engine and find it's lunched!

Bet your learning loads from this though!!! :)

[supermancss]

Started last night to strip top of the engine down. I will take to pieces before thinking of buying any other parts. Got a manual to help take apart and few kind offers should I get stuck!

[supermancss]

Down to splitting the very last cases. I can't get it apart. I may have missed a bolt but can't find number 19 from the lower casing.

[supermancss]

Finally got the bugger apart.

Pictures of internals:

http://www.picoolio.com/show/57101/5ayc5

Not sure if this link is working?

[supermancss]

if not, this is the main culprit with the opposite gear's teeth sheared off too. Just working out how much each gear costs, mixed with £120 gasket set, 4litres oil, 3litres coolant...
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/55105010150797243916493.jpg/
I am VERY worried about putting it all back together.. around the side parts. Proper FML as I got anoyed and didnt label or bag the last sets of screws.

I also have a small ballbearing which literally appeared from nowhere. Any ideas anyone? Its about 6mm in diameter silver ball

[supermancss]

would this fit my bike? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRANSMISSION-GEARBOX-2001-YAMAHA-R6-YZFR6-600-/140618620892?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash =item20bd85dfdc

[Jon_W]

No. Yours is an FZR engine, that is a R6. I think you need to find an old Genisis.

[supermancss]

Cheers chaps, will go with the gaskets then.

GEAR, 3RD PINION (22T) £146 ..
GEAR, 4TH WHEEL (28T) £90
Starter crankcase gasket £7.60
Clutch crankcase gasket £12.20
Cyclinder Gasket £14.10
Headcover gasket is still looking good.
Cylinder head gasket £37.30
Water pump gasket £0.60
Sump Gasket £11.50
Total £320.81 posted

Oil filter £6
Spark plugs £22.50
Oil 4litres 10/40 £25
Coolant 3litres £21
Total £74.50


Cant find the gasket for the main crankcase, if there is one?

http://www.yamahamotorcyclespares.co.uk/spares/epc2.asp?ModelID=9575&pageID=14&m...

£395.31

buying parts from Ajsutton site, Cant really find anywhere else thats got any parts available!

[Scotty]

There isn't a main crankcase gasket - there isn't a complete gasket face around the entire cases and the surfaces have to mate directly to maintain the correct clearance on all the main bearings in addition to the gearbox bearings. Usually a sealant is used, in this case Yamabond, in moderate quantities - Read the manual!
As said previously, use the regular gaskets elsewhere.

[stretchie_]

Have a butchers here

http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/yzf_600_r_thundercat/98-01/picture/gasket_set_-_full_-_athena_italy/

Don't forget, look at both 2nd gear and 3rd gear cogs at the dogs and don't forget the 6th gear cogs that they connect with, you want to chack to see if the recesses that the dogs go into are worn on the edges.

[supermancss]

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZ6-FZ-6-600-FZ600-Fazer-05-Engine-Transmission-Set-Tranny-06-07-F-2005-/380439034680?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash =item5893eefb38#shId

from a fazer, maybe not quite the same as its an 05 fazer from US? Would this fit?!

[supermancss]

or this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-FZR600-FZR-600-1998-TRANSMISSION-TRANS-GEARS-COMPLETE-SET-SHAFT-LAY-OEM-/120853083209?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash =item1c2367b449

[alanTDM]

Cheers chaps, will go with the gaskets then.

GEAR, 3RD PINION (22T) £146 ..
GEAR, 4TH WHEEL (28T) £90
Starter crankcase gasket £7.60
Clutch crankcase gasket £12.20
Cyclinder Gasket £14.10
Headcover gasket is still looking good.
Cylinder head gasket £37.30
Water pump gasket £0.60
Sump Gasket £11.50
Total £320.81 posted

Oil filter £6
Spark plugs £22.50
Oil 4litres 10/40 £25
Coolant 3litres £21
Total £74.50


Cant find the gasket for the main crankcase, if there is one?

http://www.yamahamotorcyclespares.co.uk/spares/epc2.asp?ModelID=9575&pageID=14&m...

£395.31

buying parts from Ajsutton site, Cant really find anywhere else thats got any parts available!

Have you tried Fowlers of Bristol they have next day delivery,
I use to be a member of the MSN Thundercat group but here is a link to the new site will have lot of info on there http://www.yamaha-thundercats.org/f39-the-workshop.
Might be worth joining

[alanTDM]

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZ6-FZ-6-600-FZ600-Fazer-05-Engine-Transmission-Set-Tranny-06-07-F-2005-/380439034680?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash =item5893eefb38#shId

from a fazer, maybe not quite the same as its an 05 fazer from US? Would this fit?!

You need parts from a 1996 - 2002 fazer 600 they are the same engine only detuned with slight differences to carbs and camshafts.When they updated the Fazer 600 they then used the R6 engine

[supermancss]

Managed to rejig figures etc,

Got gaskets, oil, filters, coolant etc with the new transmission (used) from a low milage fazer from the USA.

All in £215.

£37 for the transmission and £40 for postage!!

few weeks till all the parts arrive and i can get going

[Snowy]

Managed to rejig figures etc,

Got gaskets, oil, filters, coolant etc with the new transmission (used) from a low milage fazer from the USA.

All in £215.

£37 for the transmission and £40 for postage!!

few weeks till all the parts arrive and i can get going

Hopefully you will be lucky, but be prepared to get charged 20% VAT on top when it gets imported into the EU from the USA.

[stretchie_]

I use to be a member of the MSN Thundercat group but here is a link to the new site will have lot of info on there http://www.yamaha-thundercats.org/f39-the-workshop.
Might be worth joining

I'll see you there kidder, I'm on with the same forum name...

Oh and just to mess with your head google "Thundercat 660cc build" (actually it might be american so try "YZF600r 660cc build", that'll get you thinking, mixture of use of conrods and pistons from FZR and FZS I believe and a different side casing will give you 660cc and a mid more mid range again... Apparantly.. Good write up if you can find it

[supermancss]

Hopefully wont be hit with the 20% tax, if I do its only £7 anyway. Still waiting for stupid paypal to clear my payment. didnt realise you needed to have a card on paypal for instant payment.

[Snowy]

Hopefully wont be hit with the 20% tax, if I do its only £7 anyway. Still waiting for stupid paypal to clear my payment. didnt realise you needed to have a card on paypal for instant payment.

That's OK then - I misread your post and thought the USA shipment was £215 in total. Good luck!

[supermancss]

Yeah the £37 for item and 40 somthing for postage. rest is from different UK sources at best rates I could find.

Hate this brilliant weather and not having the parts. I think I'll book a few days off work when I have all the parts.

[supermancss]

Got this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120853083209?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p398 4.m1497.l2649

and it isn't the same. majorly anoyed now, its from a 98 fazer in good condition too, but some gears/cogs too thin, the gear spacing isnt the same, and I dont think I can just drop it in and use it like I was told it would.

wasted £160 on the other parts I bought and £70 on the actual gears I ordered.

[jpssantos]

how did you get on with this?

shame I didnt see this earlier, could have given you a hand. my old thundercat had gearbox problems, jumping out of 2nd gear and then eventually out of 3rd...
I got the engine in and out so many times that I got to the point where i could do a full engine swap in about 2h..

in the end the cheapest, and easiest solution was to buy a second hand engine.
Got one off ebay for £200, and the bike is still riding around, sold her back in 2008 i think...

[ChrisJ]

Hi I'd love to know how you got on with this?? I think I may have to undertake it soon myself :(

[ozzy196]

Hi all,

I've got a '97 Cat. I'm also starting the strip down on mine tomorrow, jumped out of gear a couple of times the other day then got stuck in about 4th I think :S had to make do with that to ride home then after some fiddling can now go through the gears again just about but is far from right.

I'm kinda hoping that it could be something to do with the selectors as been as it has happened so suddenly... because until this point it didn't jump out of gear at all. if I do have to go for the big strip down ill sure be back and any guidance would be more than welcome as i'm dreading it!!! lol.

Ill post back with what I find.

[goz1960]

Ash44 seems to have gone missing would love to know how he got on with the rebuild?.

[Toph]

Are Thundercat gearboxes fragile then?? :-?
as there are 2 people on this thread with Thundercats with knackered gearboxes.. Jap bikes don't have gearbox problems do they??.. I've owned lots of jap bikes over the last 36 years.. I've never before had a gearbox problem.

only commenting because I ride a Thundercat.. :o

[alanTDM]

I heard in the past there are a few Yamaha bikes which seem to have gearbox problems and its seems to be 2nd or3rd gear.XT600's Thundercat and some TDM's.
Now if this is related to the way they are built or to rider abuse not sure.
Which brings me to say i have a Haynes Thundercat/Fazer Manual if anyone wants it for zilch.Pm me if any one is interested .

[Toph]

PM sent. :)

[Mitch9128]

'98 R1,ZX9 C1/2,Fireblade 954, all renound for dodgy gearbox's.

[supermancss]

Hello all I have returned lol

I managed to get the bike apart on my own and get the engine out. I ended up buying lots of tools and even a heap of wood to make a good work bench.

The bike is currently still all stripped down. I fixed the gearbox cogs and managed to get them all smooth again and all the fragments of metal out of the workings. I went to put the 2 cases back together and found it difficult.

I would use sealant to reseal but im unsure of how much to use and where to apply it. I ended up getting it on the bloomin cogs again so it wasn't smooth rotating again....!!!

Fixed that, and again found it really fiddly lining up the two cases and thats wheres its been for 6months.

Due to the nice weather and bike chat coming up again, Im going to get back onto it again. I'm really worried about how its going to go though as its been 6months and whilst most of the parts are bagged up and numbered, some screws and parts are not. I'm worried 'i'll miss some of the obvious things..

I will be giving it a go for 1/2hrs tomorrow afternoon after work and then on it at the weekend.

Does anyone have a service manual or a guide that would help me remind myself? I have lost the service manual I had downloaded.

[goz1960]

Download it again??????????? ;D