View Full Version : London riots
I am horrified by what is happening in London.
I feel so sorry for all those that are affected.
Truly shocked!
Rabb.
Kicked off in Brum to ain't they Rabb ?
The wringing hand wet weekend lot are out bleating.
A plod was shot at with, I guess, an illegal firearm and fortunately survived but the alleged attacker is taken out.Wonder what would've happened if the plod was killed and the attacker had escaped ? :-?
Remember what happened to PC Keith Blakelock [R.I.P.] and the subsequent legal debacle and silence from 'community' last time at Broadwater Farm plus the £millions thrown at the area ever since...these places are a tinderbox that have been allowed to grow.
:( :(
Kicked off in Brum to ain't they Rabb ?
The wringing hand wet weekend lot are out bleating.
A plod was shot at with, I guess, an illegal firearm and fortunately survived but the alleged attacker is taken out.Wonder what would've happened if the plod was killed and the attacker had escaped ? :-?
Remember what happened to PC Keith Blakelock [R.I.P.] and the subsequent legal debacle and silence from 'community' last time at Broadwater Farm plus the £millions thrown at the area ever since...these places are a tinderbox that have been allowed to grow.
If I were a politician - now is the time to bring in batton rounds, tear gas, gazer guns and the army!
Rabb.
:( :(
Yes Col - I saw on the news yesterday that shops in the town centre of Brum were attacked last night. I would also get the water cannons out - that will drown their enthusiasm for violence and robbery. There should also be a curfew in all areas concerned! Mobile phone systems in certain areas should be turned off so that these criminals cannot organise.
Rabb.
470four
09-08-11, 07:20 AM
Seconded... we have become an Anarchy state - in Europe etc they would be out there with gas & batons knocking heads together, we are apparently too scared of more retribution to do anything about our major cities running riot??!
Our children are in a lot of cases undisciplined, overeducated & too lazy to work - why should they when we have the dole??
"Hey, dont smash that window or we will send you to a remand centre for 3 months where you can smoke weed and play x-box all day!"
"Mr Jones grabbed my arm too hard because I threw something at his head, look - a slight red mark! How dare he!"
Save me... take me back a decade or two when we all had discipline & something to fear, I was terrified of my parents & the Police! Now we are turning into some sort of laughing-stock emergency bank for countrys nothing to do with us??
Seconded... we have become an Anarchy state - in Europe etc they would be out there with gas & batons knocking heads together, we are apparently too scared of more retribution to do anything about our major cities running riot??!
Our children are in a lot of cases undisciplined, overeducated & too lazy to work - why should they when we have the dole??
"Hey, dont smash that window or we will send you to a remand centre for 3 months where you can smoke weed and play x-box all day!"
"Mr Jones grabbed my arm too hard because I threw something at his head, look - a slight red mark! How dare he!"
Save me... take me back a decade or two when we all had discipline & something to fear, I was terrified of my parents & the Police! Now we are turning into some sort of laughing-stock emergency bank for countrys nothing to do with us??
+1
Totally agree.
Squashed_Fly
09-08-11, 07:44 AM
Seconded... we have become an Anarchy state - in Europe etc they would be out there with gas & batons knocking heads together, we are apparently too scared of more retribution to do anything about our major cities running riot??!
Our children are in a lot of cases undisciplined, overeducated & too lazy to work - why should they when we have the dole??
"Hey, dont smash that window or we will send you to a remand centre for 3 months where you can smoke weed and play x-box all day!"
"Mr Jones grabbed my arm too hard because I threw something at his head, look - a slight red mark! How dare he!"
Save me... take me back a decade or two when we all had discipline & something to fear, I was terrified of my parents & the Police! Now we are turning into some sort of laughing-stock emergency bank for countrys nothing to do with us??
+1
Totally agree.
+2
470four
09-08-11, 07:58 AM
Perhaps if they dropped petrol/diesel prices to an acceptable rate then the people wouldnt be so p!ssed about things?? ;)
I'll get my lighter... :D
Disgusting behaviour, violence, mindless looting and arson by those who, because of so many loopholes, laws and 'human rights' seem to think they have a right to do it????. What happened to respect for where you live and who you live around. I am appaulled by all of this.
Send in the armed forces to back up the police and fire fighters, use water canons etc to stop it all. I'm sick of some people thinking it's perfectly acceptable to behave in this matter. What is this country coming to when we just let them get away with it? >:( Nice to see Mr Cameron enjoyed a few more days holiday before flying back to 'sort' this crap out! PAH
Those 'in charge' who have passed all these laws protecting the 'human rights' of people are far too soft and frightened of repercussions by those in society who run riot and cause mayhem because they know they will get away with it ...it's a crazy way to live.
rant over, sorry.
Roxy
Perhaps if they dropped petrol/diesel prices to an acceptable rate then the people wouldnt be so p!ssed about things?? ;)
I'll get my lighter... :D
Ohhh that'll be expensive at current prices.... ;D
470four
09-08-11, 08:45 AM
High unemployment / redundancy, high cost of food, fuel in general, motoring - Government p!ssing money away to countries we have nothing to do with even though we must be in the verge of bankrupcy ourselves -
OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO KICK OFF!
It gives them some excitement in their lifes, keeps them off the streets and gives them a brand new telly.
They have nothing better to do? A tinderbox situation... Croydon had like 28 coppers avalaible last night & what the hell were they expected to do??! Get lynched??
Agreed a massive show of force would persuade them not to do the same again tomorrow night - get the army back here and give them some Big Sticks... its better than fighting roadside bombs. ;)
Last Train
09-08-11, 09:20 AM
I'll have a flat screen TV and a pair of trainers thanks
Just shoot them they are no use to society. If they get caught they get a slap on the hand or a couple of months in prison at our expense. If they shoot them. Job done. Innocent people won't have to worry about being burnt alive.
None of this is about the current position the country is in just them getting there jollies from destroying, stealing and creating mayhem.
SHOOT THEM
Terrible state for our country to get into. I just heard someone say it's political protest. Is it hell!
These scotes are just tearing around nicking what the bloody hell they want, destroying businesses, homes, property and lives. This half-arsed government and successive governments have it made it all possible by being utterly spineless and letting Brussels and the namby pamby liberal do gooders have the sodding way all the time. A sad time indeed when thugs can roam the streets at night taking what they want, beating the crap out of people and robbing from injured people with little or no fear of ever being stopped. Unbelievably, at the same time all this is happening, the same weak wristed so-called government are going to huge lengths to get us to wear high viz!!!!! What the hell happened to common sense?????
I gotta stop now because i am beginning to rant.... >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Send in the armed forces to back up the police and fire fighters, use water canons etc to stop it all.
Sorry but no.
The Armed Forces are on a pay freeze, facing redundancies and massive cuts and currently engaged in two major overseas operations. We/They already had to step up and cover for the fire strikes - meaning added time away from home and families, doing a job with poor equipment before returning overseas to continue the "day job" on operations. Many of the Army lads who covered the fire strikes were earning less than the Firemen they were covering for.
If we don't have enough policemen on the streets then we need more policemen, not to further burden other public servants.
DaytonaDog
09-08-11, 03:39 PM
Read these. Very enlightening.
http://wintsays.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/tottenham-enfield-brixton-polcing-and-public-disorder/
http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/
wiltshire builders
09-08-11, 05:11 PM
Heard an interesting interview with a Turkish restaurant owner on R2 today.
He and the other Turkish businessmen in his area banded together to protect their shops/restaurants.
The mob aproached them and said they only wanted to target the blue chip companies like Nandos and Vodaphone (Nandos is a franchise so effectively a pivate business)
They stood their ground until someone broke a window, then they charged. The brave mob crapped themselves and legged it even though they out numbered the shop owners.
I've spent a lot of time in Turkey and you quickly realise that although friendly, if you threaten a Turks livelyhood you're gonna lose a f*cking arm.
Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire.......but not if you're a fireman.
Heard an interesting interview with a Turkish restaurant owner on R2 today.
He and the other Turkish businessmen in his area banded together to protect their shops/restaurants.
The mob aproached them and said they only wanted to target the blue chip companies like Nandos and Vodaphone (Nandos is a franchise so effectively a pivate business)
They stood their ground until someone broke a window, then they charged. The brave mob crapped themselves and legged it even though they out numbered the shop owners.
I've spent a lot of time in Turkey and you quickly realise that although friendly, if you threaten a Turks livelyhood you're gonna lose a f*cking arm.
Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire.......but not if you're a fireman.
I think there will be more of this if the situation carries on...
pilninggas
09-08-11, 06:32 PM
Seconded... we have become an Anarchy state - in Europe etc they would be out there with gas & batons knocking heads together, we are apparently too scared of more retribution to do anything about our major cities running riot??!
Our children are in a lot of cases undisciplined, overeducated & too lazy to work - why should they when we have the dole??
"Hey, dont smash that window or we will send you to a remand centre for 3 months where you can smoke weed and play x-box all day!"
"Mr Jones grabbed my arm too hard because I threw something at his head, look - a slight red mark! How dare he!"
Save me... take me back a decade or two when we all had discipline & something to fear, I was terrified of my parents & the Police! Now we are turning into some sort of laughing-stock emergency bank for countrys nothing to do with us??
+1
Totally agree.
+2
+3
The same old pathetic excuses are trotted out too, no jobs for young men - bollox loads of jobs, plenty of grafters from eastern europe have no problem finding reasonably well paid work in the Smoke.
Bunch of chancers, scroungers and looters rioting again in Bristol last night - get the rubber rounds on them, and the paint guns.
As Wilts-Builder said heard the R2 interview with the Turks, fair play to them. I reckon lots of businesses with also be hiring heavies to send these scroates away.
Are they all really that bothered about a bloke the coppers shot? I don't think so...
The old bill should quit pussyfooting around, bring out the baton rounds and the water cannon, and the following morning haul all those they've arrested back to the scene, all wearing orange Guantanamo suits and chained together, and make them clear it all up in full view of the public...
What do the scrotes have to be afraid of? They're letting baby-killers out after a couple of years nowadays and besides, going inside isn't much of a punishment now is it? Three square meals a day, clean conditions, round-the-clock Sky TV and all the computer games (and drugs) they could want...
The old bill should quit pussyfooting around, bring out the baton rounds and the water cannon, and the following morning haul all those they've arrested back to the scene, all wearing orange Guantanamo suits and chained together, and make them clear it all up in full view of the public...
Agree entirely. I'd even pay to watch that!
470four
09-08-11, 07:59 PM
The old bill should quit pussyfooting around, bring out the baton rounds and the water cannon, and the following morning haul all those they've arrested back to the scene, all wearing orange Guantanamo suits and chained together, and make them clear it all up in full view of the public...
Agree entirely. I'd even pay to watch that!
It'd make a great film! Cameron is bound to be a bit p!ssed as he's had to come back early from his luxury holiday (bless), I have a feeling tonight they wont have the kid gloves on again...
Mr Cameron - NOW do you feel like a dick for making all those police "redundant"... :P
Last Train
09-08-11, 08:08 PM
I bet Gavin from Autoglass isn't looking forward to work in the morning....
Heard an interesting interview with a Turkish restaurant owner on R2 today.
He and the other Turkish businessmen in his area banded together to protect their shops/restaurants.
The mob aproached them and said they only wanted to target the blue chip companies like Nandos and Vodaphone (Nandos is a franchise so effectively a pivate business)
They stood their ground until someone broke a window, then they charged. The brave mob crapped themselves and legged it even though they out numbered the shop owners.
I've spent a lot of time in Turkey and you quickly realise that although friendly, if you threaten a Turks livelyhood you're gonna lose a f*cking arm.
Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire.......but not if you're a fireman.
If more 'normal' people did this then they'd be scared sh*tless.......yes it would be scarey but by god it would bring a sense of community back and support the police etc....lets face it they need our support.....bloody sort the little gits out !!!
The old bill should quit pussyfooting around, bring out the baton rounds and the water cannon, and the following morning haul all those they've arrested back to the scene, all wearing orange Guantanamo suits and chained together, and make them clear it all up in full view of the public...
Agree entirely. I'd even pay to watch that!
Just remember the mantra " We are all in this together "
It seems as though we are NOT in this together.
Rabb
It'd make a great film! Cameron is bound to be a bit p!ssed as he's had to come back early from his luxury holiday (bless), I have a feeling tonight they wont have the kid gloves on again...
Mr Cameron - NOW do you feel like a dick for making all those police "redundant"... :P
BladeTriple
09-08-11, 08:46 PM
Go out , hose them down with Smart Water, pick them up days / weeks later , you carry the brand that is more or less invisible you have no excuses for being there... You have foregone your human rights by setting fire to peoples homes, livelihoods and being a general dick... obviously this is what happens when you close the local youth clubs!!
Honestly Dex, I think many of us who are not on ops and sat back in camp would relish the chance to use our 'Public Order ' Training on these little scrotes.... A few rubber bullets , a bit of tear gas and bring over the water cannons from the province and give them a taste of what the Provo's and the Prods used to come up against when they decided to play up .... However we wouldn't be facing down armed terrorists at the same time.
It would only take one night on the streets of clashing with our Armed Forces to put this to bed and a few more nights of 'Peaceful' patrolling....
The riots over the last few nights have NOTHING to do with that lad being shot, who in all fairness did have a loaded pistol and that was enough to put officers lives at threat... You live by the sword, you die by the sword!
The riots now are about causing chaos, running wild, looting , getting away with whatever they like because they think they are untouchable ! Sorry kids but you're not .... Using, no jobs, nothing to do blah etc, poor backgrounds is no excuse, FGS I come from Teesside , one of the biggest unemployment blackspots in the country ... Have we seen the smoggies kicking off trashing Middlesbrough and the surrounding areas ? Nope , because we know the value of things even when we have bugger all !
Give the police the tools to do the job and if they are not up to it I'm sure theres plenty of soldiers will volunteer for that public order work, its a hell of a work out after all !
Squashed_Fly
10-08-11, 07:20 AM
The events over the past few days have made me ashamed to be English.
I mean how the hell did we let Swagger Jagger get to No. 1?
pilninggas
10-08-11, 10:07 AM
The events over the past few days have made me ashamed to be English.
I mean how the hell did we let Swagger Jagger get to No. 1?
What are you on-about? it's a brilliant 'song', i'm gonna go and loot me a copy.
1/4 million chavs can't be wrong.
Well the riots are moving toward where i lived 7 months ago Bromley/Orpington area there have already been some "minor" incidents there but the major stuff is moving that way! Just hope my mates don't get caught up in any of the violence!
Personally i think they should just give the police a big pile of guns and tear gas and let them go nuts! I'm sure these chavy little ****s would slouch off back to their council houses soon enough if they had guns shoved in their faces! This has nothing to do with anybody being shot, race or religion or anything else its about people thinking they can do whatever the hell they want and get away with it, and at the moment they're being proved right!
This country has become so bloody soft it can't even defend itself against... well itself! If the police use force to try and stop the rioters they get done for assault and accused of racism and police brutality and if they don't use force to try and stop it then they get harassed for not doing their jobs. Their hands are so tied up by red tape that they are completely unable to do anything but throw harsh language at people and even that is a contentious matter!
We need to rip up the rule book, throw away the labour party, make health and safety a criminal offense, remove "Politically correct" from the dictionary and start over!
Just saw this and spat water all over my PC :D
Employee from Waterstones Manchester: "We'll stay open. If they steal some books they might learn something."
470four
10-08-11, 04:26 PM
The events over the past few days have made me ashamed to be English.
I mean how the hell did we let Swagger Jagger get to No. 1?
What are you on-about? it's a brilliant 'song', i'm gonna go and loot me a copy.
1/4 million chavs can't be wrong.
Am I the only one to notice all "Swagger Jagger" is, is "Oh my darlin', oh my darlin', oh my daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarlin Clemantine!" with different lyrics and some drum machine??
Cher Lloyd easily makes my top six people I would like to Tazer until they uncontrollably soil themselves:
Tim Westwood (You are not a "gangsta". You are not "coloured". You are a Cock, and not a good one.)
Jedward (Somebody shoot them before they find someone equally retarded to breed with. The teenage gene pool is in enough of a state already)
Katie Price (No reason listing needed)
Ex-Wife (Oh yes)
JLS (You are no more "Men" or "blokes" than Action Man was, you over-pruned orange prancing Goons)
Cher Lloyd (Nice one, your sh!tbag "song" gets to number one and we have riots up and down the country)
470four
10-08-11, 04:32 PM
Well the riots are moving toward where i lived 7 months ago Bromley/Orpington area there have already been some "minor" incidents there but the major stuff is moving that way! Just hope my mates don't get caught up in any of the violence!
Personally i think they should just give the police a big pile of guns and tear gas and let them go nuts! I'm sure these chavy little ****s would slouch off back to their council houses soon enough if they had guns shoved in their faces! This has nothing to do with anybody being shot, race or religion or anything else its about people thinking they can do whatever the hell they want and get away with it, and at the moment they're being proved right!
This country has become so bloody soft it can't even defend itself against... well itself! If the police use force to try and stop the rioters they get done for assault and accused of racism and police brutality and if they don't use force to try and stop it then they get harassed for not doing their jobs. Their hands are so tied up by red tape that they are completely unable to do anything but throw harsh language at people and even that is a contentious matter!
We need to rip up the rule book, throw away the labour party, make health and safety a criminal offense, remove "Politically correct" from the dictionary and start over!
Too right mate. :)
We have become overrun by a bunch of feral TEENAGERS who we have no control over anymore??
Running around post-apocalyse raiding, burning & looting without fear of consequence or retribution...
Cameron needs to re-introduce corporal punishment, National Service & powers to the Police? I am sickened by the state our country has become, little more than some run-down ghetto?? >:( ::) >:(
Wheres my bike keys?
wiltshire builders
10-08-11, 05:50 PM
I laughed at Cooper Brown's column in I today (I know he's not real)
He suggested we close all fast food outlets so they have nothing to eat, then tell them that Nandos on the Isle of wight is open. When they all converge on it, drop it to the bottom of the sea.
That's the best suggestion i've heard yet.
Oh! Oh! Don't know if you caught this info in all the excitement but-
The Plod was hit by a bullet from a Plod gun NOT from the weapon held by the bloke which was not fired apparently.
This is the worst possible info about the initial incident.
Plenty of work now to investigate but what can be said if over exhuberant plod is responsible or at the very least 'lit the touchpaper' so to speak. No one really knows the full details yet of the actual circumstances and orders given in response to what actions.
Not good at all :(
On the subject of feral yuffs and the disadvantaged I have thought for a long time now that any government isn't going to do much about them as 'they' create huge amounts of employment and paper shuffling as in courts, social workers, plod work,more edukatting,yuff workers,etc. As for National Service don't even think it cos the last thing we want is these wasters trained up or even the taxpayer having 'em on the state payroll.
It also defies all logic that society/the state actually encourages them to breed and literally is paying for the next wave, but bigger, of dysfunctional humans ::)
Have a nice day :)
pilninggas
10-08-11, 09:09 PM
Oh! Oh! Don't know if you caught this info in all the excitement but-
The Plod was hit by a bullet from a Plod gun NOT from the weapon held by the bloke which was not fired apparently.
This is the worst possible info about the initial incident.
Plenty of work now to investigate but what can be said if over exhuberant plod is responsible or at the very least 'lit the touchpaper' so to speak. No one really knows the full details yet of the actual circumstances and orders given in response to what actions.
Not good at all :(
On the subject of feral yuffs and the disadvantaged I have thought for a long time now that any government isn't going to do much about them as 'they' create huge amounts of employment and paper shuffling as in courts, social workers, plod work,more edukatting,yuff workers,etc. As for National Service don't even think it cos the last thing we want is these wasters trained up or even the taxpayer having 'em on the state payroll.
It also defies all logic that society/the state actually encourages them to breed and literally is paying for the next wave, but bigger, of dysfunctional humans ::)
Have a nice day :)
Surely if the dead bloke had a gun, it is a case of live by the sword, die by the sword. The police rightly should not have to take chances, and those of us 'normals' who don't travel everywhere with a gun will be okay.
Nice to see an e-petition pushing for anyone found to be involved to lose their benefits - they sure as hell never deserve another penny from taxpayers after what they have done; it's at 78,000 signatures already. I would love these toe-rags to never get anything from those of us contribute again, and maybe realise how good this place is to them compared to most of the rest of the world.
it made me chuckle that now DC has authorised rubber bullets and the police can even use a water canon.....but 24 hours notice is required to get it...uh hello nearly a week not enough notice???
by the way,what the hell is a swagger jagger anyways? :)
pilninggas
10-08-11, 10:59 PM
Watching Diane Abbots on Newsnight; she is completely barmy, seems to want to find a get-out clause for the rioters in her constuency. Apologists like her, need to wake-up and stop trying to blame the rest of society.
wiltshire builders
11-08-11, 07:18 AM
Watching Diane Abbots on Newsnight; she is completely barmy, seems to want to find a get-out clause for the rioters in her constuency. Apologists like her, need to wake-up and stop trying to blame the rest of society.
Diane Abbots is an out and out racist! There, I said it! >:(
Last Train
11-08-11, 08:10 AM
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq129/headallfire/come-on-then.gif
Blackandchrome
11-08-11, 12:27 PM
;D
AndytheCat
11-08-11, 01:40 PM
Kicked off in Brum to ain't they Rabb ?
The wringing hand wet weekend lot are out bleating.
A plod was shot at with, I guess, an illegal firearm and fortunately survived but the alleged attacker is taken out.Wonder what would've happened if the plod was killed and the attacker had escaped ? :-?
Remember what happened to PC Keith Blakelock [R.I.P.] and the subsequent legal debacle and silence from 'community' last time at Broadwater Farm plus the £millions thrown at the area ever since...these places are a tinderbox that have been allowed to grow.
:( :(
R.I.P Keith Blakelock.
paddy came round today, he went looting in argos...... said he has about 500 catalouges and 6 stubby pens going cheap ;)
Squashed_Fly
11-08-11, 08:46 PM
paddy came round today, he went looting in argos...... said he has about 500 catalouges and 6 stubby pens going cheap ;)
That Paddy must be doing ok for himself then.... I heard he smashed in his laptop screen trying to loot ebay as well ;D
BladeTriple
11-08-11, 09:53 PM
I just heared that Scousers are refusing to travel to London on Saturday for the Spurs Vs Everton match due to fears that all the best stuff has already been stolen
;D ;D ;D
BladeTriple
11-08-11, 09:58 PM
On a serious note , the lad who got shot was carrying a short barrelled weapon... The police have a split second to react, it's a case of 'is it real, is it a replica?' ' is it loaded? is there a round in the chamber?' 'is his safety off and will he use it' in this time the guy who is a potential threat to anyone near him could fire a shot and wound or kill anyone....
The police made a judgement call, there is no info to say how or in what way he was challenged and if the guy was a genuine threat , if the police rules of engagement are similar to that of the armed forces guarding their bases in UK , there will be no need to issue a challenge prior to opening fire , as in the time it takes to say 'POLICE STOP OR WE FIRE' the assailant could have 3 shots or more from a self loading weapon....
The Police Officers actions potentially saved the life of his comrades and of course his own.
It's sad that anyone loses a life , but as has been said before, you live by the sword.... you die by the sword!
Saw a bit of the commons debate last night..... I have to say it seems hypocritical to me for MP's to lecture and postulate about the morality of theft when that bunch claimed tens of thousands of pounds for duck houses, moats, televisions, etc.... and then blocked attempts by the police to investigate fully.
Then to compound the felony they allow the likes of vodaphone and other city tycoons to avoid millions in tax and go un-punished. They then have the nerve to stand there and rant about the full weight of the law being applied to the looters. I say this, the worse looter in this country are located in wesminster! And they will never feel the weight of the law!
Squashed_Fly
12-08-11, 08:20 AM
Saw a bit of the commons debate last night..... I have to say it seems hypocritical to me for MP's to lecture and postulate about the morality of theft when that bunch claimed tens of thousands of pounds for duck houses, moats, televisions, etc.... and then blocked attempts by the police to investigate fully.
Then to compound the felony they allow the likes of vodaphone and other city tycoons to avoid millions in tax and go un-punished. They then have the nerve to stand there and rant about the full weight of the law being applied to the looters. I say this, the worse looter in this country are located in wesminster! And they will never feel the weight of the law!
+1
pilninggas
12-08-11, 09:50 AM
Saw a bit of the commons debate last night..... I have to say it seems hypocritical to me for MP's to lecture and postulate about the morality of theft when that bunch claimed tens of thousands of pounds for duck houses, moats, televisions, etc.... and then blocked attempts by the police to investigate fully.
Then to compound the felony they allow the likes of vodaphone and other city tycoons to avoid millions in tax and go un-punished. They then have the nerve to stand there and rant about the full weight of the law being applied to the looters. I say this, the worse looter in this country are located in wesminster! And they will never feel the weight of the law!
I am not condoning the expenses scandal, the phone tapping, police corruption etc, however by-and-large politicians, journalists, [bent] coppers will have helped to bring some civility and wealth to this country.
A load of lazy, work-shy drug-users who shun every attempt at becoming useful members of society and then riot, bring nothing and infact reduce the quality of life for all of us.
In fairness to politicians (god, i'm selling my soul), I am aware of none that set fire to a family business with a family asleep above.
Squashed_Fly
12-08-11, 10:14 AM
In a non direct way, they probably have. The probs they've caused will have driven more than a few to torch their businesses for insurance, only to end up getting caught & jailed.
Their hands are by no means clean, however it is much easier to deal with a direct issue than an indirect one...
I am not condoning the expenses scandal, the phone tapping, police corruption etc, however by-and-large politicians, journalists, [bent] coppers will have helped to bring some civility and wealth to this country.
A load of lazy, work-shy drug-users who shun every attempt at becoming useful members of society and then riot, bring nothing and infact reduce the quality of life for all of us.
In fairness to politicians (god, i'm selling my soul), I am aware of none that set fire to a family business with a family asleep above.
It's not the statements condemming the actions taking that I think are hypocracy. It's the false morality of these people. Low payed workers are facing a cut in living standards because of the deficit, but at the same time, the rich and Mp's can claim lavish expensise and avoid taxes legally. Prehaps I'm morally misguided, but is seems so wrong to me.
I'll ask anyone. What does a Eton and Oxford educated minister know about poverty?? What does the same person know about avoiding tax??
Answers on a poastcard.
Squashed_Fly
12-08-11, 10:44 AM
Poverty has nothing to do with the issue.
I watched an interview with one of the business owners who's company got torched. He also runs a charity for children in real poverty in 3rd world countries. These kids have nothing, and are grateful for their communities, and they want nothing more than the opportunity for an education.
Whereas these kids in 'so called poverty' in London - have free schooling, free healthcare, a benefits system that they abuse and they're running round with the latest mobiles, have big screen teles and designer label clothing. They don't know what real poverty is, other than an excuse to behave how they like.
If these kids abroad treated their communities in the same way, they would be beaten by their parents. Children are no longer frightened of consequence, because there isn't one.
We've destroyed our society with political correctness, human rights for all and all these other things that sounds so wonderful, and forgoten that children need discipline and to understand the consequences of breaking rules.
pilninggas
12-08-11, 12:53 PM
I am not condoning the expenses scandal, the phone tapping, police corruption etc, however by-and-large politicians, journalists, [bent] coppers will have helped to bring some civility and wealth to this country.
A load of lazy, work-shy drug-users who shun every attempt at becoming useful members of society and then riot, bring nothing and infact reduce the quality of life for all of us.
In fairness to politicians (god, i'm selling my soul), I am aware of none that set fire to a family business with a family asleep above.
It's not the statements condemming the actions taking that I think are hypocracy. It's the false morality of these people. Low payed workers are facing a cut in living standards because of the deficit, but at the same time, the rich and Mp's can claim lavish expensise and avoid taxes legally. Prehaps I'm morally misguided, but is seems so wrong to me.
I'll ask anyone. What does a Eton and Oxford educated minister know about poverty?? What does the same person know about avoiding tax??
Answers on a poastcard.
Ir's the nature of politics in this country - who was the last Prime Minister came from a humble background?
Not Cameron, possibly Brown (son of a Padre, worst PM of modern era), def. not Blair, so probably Major (who grew up in post-war Brixton) - who did not attend Eton, but is despised by the left and blair-voters. Will be totally unknown to the bone idle classes.
Surely more and more MPs are coming from working class backgrounds, so maybe some will eventually come from the can't-be-arsed classes (or maybe that is contrary).
I live in one of the toughest estates in Bristol, this week i've been building a garage - i really want to get back to work, as i can't believe the amount of men not much younger than me who are sat/stood on the street drinking and doing nothing. Quite rightly I find their lack of motivation pretty insulting. They don't care about politicians (or who they are) they just want their benefits, their addictions of choice and to do as little as possible - they will be idolising the scum who riot. >:(
Crosbie
12-08-11, 02:44 PM
Change the laws regarding guns - if caught with a fire arm that is illegal with or without live rounds, subsequent shooting of said person by an officer should go unchallenged - If you have an illegal fire arm you have it for a purpose of illegal use regardless of whether you fire it. It WIL take someone’s life, you are a serious threat to society if you believe it is acceptable to carry with you. Goodbye!
Change the law for benefits - commit a crime and have your benefit halted for a period related to the cost of your crime including the cost involves in setting up your community service and/or prison sentence. It really frustrates me that people believe it is their god dam given right to benefits including housing at the expenses of tax payers, even more so when they have the luxuries of Sky TV, 50”led TVs, surround sound systems, iphones on £40 monthly bills, Nike trainers need I go on.
It seems that people aren’t really being held accountable for their actions currently which is fundamentally wrong. Prisons are to homely which doesn’t give the right mid set to petty criminals that may have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time and made a bad decision. Make them accountable, give a sentence, serve the length regardless of good behaviour or overcrowding (if there isn’t enough space make space by putting 3 or 4 in a cell). Make it very uncomfortable for them and the likely hood is they won’t reoffend. Those that do should receive an extend sentence based on the fact it’s a second, third, fourth offence!
Introduce some basic laws which on the whole should not worry you unless you are criminal and we might just start to see an improvement in today’s shoddy excuse for a modern society.
Rant done.
wiltshire builders
12-08-11, 04:00 PM
Change the law for benefits - commit a crime and have your benefit halted for a period related to the cost of your crime including the cost involves in setting up your community service and/or prison sentence. It really frustrates me that people believe it is their god dam given right to benefits including housing at the expenses of tax payers, even more so when they have the luxuries of Sky TV, 50”led TVs, surround sound systems, iphones on £40 monthly bills, Nike trainers need I go on.
Crosbie, that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard! If you have a 50" LED tv you'll get motion blur. Always go for plasma above 42" ;D
Seriously though, I agree but unfortunately we signed up with europe and all of those things would be classed as an infringment of human rights, even though I would barely class these animals as human.
Crosbie
12-08-11, 04:24 PM
Change the law for benefits - commit a crime and have your benefit halted for a period related to the cost of your crime including the cost involves in setting up your community service and/or prison sentence. It really frustrates me that people believe it is their god dam given right to benefits including housing at the expenses of tax payers, even more so when they have the luxuries of Sky TV, 50”led TVs, surround sound systems, iphones on £40 monthly bills, Nike trainers need I go on.
Crosbie, that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard! If you have a 50" LED tv you'll get motion blur. Always go for plasma above 42" ;D
I stand corrected. I wouldnt know tho as i only have a 32" lcd from 4 years ago. My wages wont stretch at the moment to buying a 50" plasma, thus i am angry at the government for not giving me money to buy a new one. After all mine is really old now and i feel hard done by coz my neighbours next door have a new big spangly one and i dont. :'( lol.
Squashed_Fly
12-08-11, 05:03 PM
Have they been to Tottenham recently? ;)
pilninggas
12-08-11, 05:59 PM
Change the law for benefits - commit a crime and have your benefit halted for a period related to the cost of your crime including the cost involves in setting up your community service and/or prison sentence. It really frustrates me that people believe it is their god dam given right to benefits including housing at the expenses of tax payers, even more so when they have the luxuries of Sky TV, 50”led TVs, surround sound systems, iphones on £40 monthly bills, Nike trainers need I go on.
Crosbie, that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard! If you have a 50" LED tv you'll get motion blur. Always go for plasma above 42" ;D
I stand corrected. I wouldnt know tho as i only have a 32" lcd from 4 years ago. My wages wont stretch at the moment to buying a 50" plasma, thus i am angry at the government for not giving me money to buy a new one. After all mine is really old now and i feel hard done by coz my neighbours next door have a new big spangly one and i dont. :'( lol.
What is galling is that of you weren't taxed to the hilt to pay for bone-idle scum, you would have more money in your pocket, that you earned for things you want and that really is the crux for me. I did not choose my place of birth, and don't have a say on the amount the HMRC want to subtract from my wages because other people choose to sit on their assholes.
The riots have moved on to new levels
http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/the-london-riots-are-getting-worse
470four
13-08-11, 11:16 AM
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337/signature/new
Please put your names on the above - damned if my hard-earned taxes will be paying all of their little smash-my-own-town-up mission.... >:(
redken1
13-08-11, 08:19 PM
Just returned from a two week holiday in the sun abroad, to be welcomed by rain and a nation recovering from unprecedented civil disorder. Like all law abiding citizens, I was appalled and felt a sense of shame as I watched the ugly riotous scenes on Sky news last week. Before I offer a contribution to this emotive debate, I wish to make it clear that I am not an apologist and unequivocally condemn all the criminal behaviour that occurred. My heart goes out to all the victims and especially Tariq Jahan and to all the relatives who lost loved ones to these mindless acts of violence.
In the short-term order needs to be restored and our city streets reclaimed. Thankfully, relative calm has returned due in part to a high police presence on our streets. Current levels of policing cannot be sustained and it’s clear to me that PM Cameron will be forced to revisit his proposed 20 per cent cuts in the police budget.
I believe that the police shooting in Tottenham was a trigger (not the underlying cause) for the riots that ensued. As events unfolded it became apparent that those involved in the looting and violence came from all social backgrounds and were motivated by many different reasons. In the long-term all sections of our society need to consider rationally all the contributing factors which led to this infectious sickness, if we are to find a cure. Knee-jerk reactions will not solve the problem in the long-term. One example, councils serving eviction notices on suspects (not convicted yet) have a statutory obligation to care for their homeless innocent offspring.
We live in one of the most unequal societies in the world and year on year under the red Tories and the blue Tories the gap between the rich and the poor has widened. We now have the highest number of unemployed among the 16 to 25 year old age group since records begun. A good time to cut the education maintenance allowance, which at worst helped to keep thousands of 16 to 19 year olds off the streets and gave them hope? I left school in 1975 with no qualifications and could leave a job on a Friday and start a new one of my choice (within reason) on the following Monday. My daughter left school recently with 3 A levels and she has applied for twenty jobs, receiving 2 replies. I am not making excuses for last week’s sickening scenes but, I am trying to make sense of why it happened and what can be done to prevent a reoccurrence.
Can we afford to keep building prisons? The prison population also reached a record high this week with a population of 85 thousand and a mere 1500 places remain.
Is it now time that a reality check is made that quite simply the population is too large with diminishing jobs and due to this fact an increasing reliance on benefits made available by excessive taxation of the employed making employment less than attractive for those on low salaries.
Think it's a bit of a joke that Camoron [of the wisteria ;D ] wants some yank plod to come over -- jeeezus ain't we got some plod capable of doing the job [called 'policing' I believe ] especially the excessively paid wafflers and jobsworths behind a desk or are they non essential high cost posts to move paper about and turn out at posh 'dos'---value for the taxpayer :-? every one that turns up is nothing less than an Inspector--are there any actual plods or they all promoted ::)
redken1
13-08-11, 10:31 PM
Col, who should the young unemployed look to for moral guidance? The Bankers? The Law-makers who stole from the public purse? The Law-enforcers who allegedly took bungs for information? The media who allegedly hacked in to the phones of murdered children? Or what about their so called role models, footballers - champion's of morality on £250 thou a week?
Moral guidance Ken---think we should say 'Parents' first and foremost plus the fact that parents are legally responsible for their kids until 18. This point is missed time and time again--it isn't the taxpayers liability the damage and grief the scrotes cause.
Time for parents to be responsible and if there is some question over the parents moral integrity and ability to teach their kids basic 'right from wrong' then we are bringing into the equation the freedom to breed without scrutiny from the state/society :-?
Absolutely no doubt that discipline in school needs firming up considerably---the teaching profession and their associated political windbags of the last c.15 years have much to answer for---controversial ? I think not --- they[a generalisation] have seriously undermined the kids perceptions and understanding of authority and behaviour to societies detriment :'(
One other thing [maybe not ;) ]---- the culture around drugs has got to be destroyed--not helped by increased production in prehistoric Afghanshoiteland --ridiculous ::)
redken1
14-08-11, 12:36 AM
Col, I could not agree more but, unless we (Society) can offer our young generation hope for the future I fear that things will get worse. On the day our troops invaded Iraq a journalist asked the then chancellor Gordon Brown, how much the war would cost? Brown replied, “Whatever it takes.” I just wish the same level of political will was applied in trying to fix broken Britain. I have brought my daughter up in what I hope was a caring and loving environment but she still can’t get a job. There are tens of thousands of youngsters out there who really want to work. We always find the cash to fight wars; we always find the cash to bail out banks. It’s about time we invested in our young generation.
Moral guidance Ken---think we should say 'Parents' first and foremost plus the fact that parents are legally responsible for their kids until 18. This point is missed time and time again--it isn't the taxpayers liability the damage and grief the scrotes cause.
Time for parents to be responsible and if there is some question over the parents moral integrity and ability to teach their kids basic 'right from wrong' then we are bringing into the equation the freedom to breed without scrutiny from the state/society :-?
Absolutely no doubt that discipline in school needs firming up considerably---the teaching profession and their associated political windbags of the last c.15 years have much to answer for---controversial ? I think not --- they[a generalisation] have seriously undermined the kids perceptions and understanding of authority and behaviour to societies detriment :'(
One other thing [maybe not ;) ]---- the culture around drugs has got to be destroyed--not helped by increased production in prehistoric Afghanshoiteland --ridiculous ::)
completely agree about discipline in schools, having been in school/college until about 18 months ago there was no discipline in the classroom and, this really gets me, all the kids who were constantly screaming, shouting, abusing teachers etc. got put in special classes and got to go on trips all the time and go paint balling, take days off to go off with a social worker to the beach because they "have a bad life at home" only to come back to school the next day and laugh and joke about how easy it is to BS these people and get loads of free stuff, do what they like and get rewarded for it... while i'm sat at the back of the classroom being completely bored because all the classes are have been dumbed down to the point of stupidity, being completely ignored by the teacher when i do actually need to ask something because they're trying to stop all the idiots throwing the smallest kid in the class out the window with harsh language! Bring back the cane and actually teach something interesting and worth while, don't dumb it down because Fred and Boris don't have the mental capacity to understand it, there are 30 other kids in the class who do understand it and want to move on, if Fred and Boris don't understand it and want to learn tell them to come back after the lesson so they can learn it, i guarantee they wouldn't because they're the first ones out the door at the end of the lesson because they're life ambition it is to have 10 kids and live on benefits! If the punishment for not doing the set work were a lash on the hand then people might think twice about not doing any work, as it is you can do fek all work be told to stay behind after the class, ignore it get told to go and see the headmaster ignore that too and it all goes away! What the hell kind of good is that?! If they get away with that at school is it any surprise they think they can get away with it in real life too?!
Rant over >:( really gets on my tits!
PS. there was actually a girl on my college course who's life goal was to have 3 kids, get a council house, live on benefits and die by the time she's 40!
and the worrying thing... is I'm not even joking!
pilninggas
14-08-11, 09:39 AM
Col, who should the young unemployed look to for moral guidance? The Bankers? The Law-makers who stole from the public purse? The Law-enforcers who allegedly took bungs for information? The media who allegedly hacked in to the phones of murdered children? Or what about their so called role models, footballers - champion's of morality on £250 thou a week?
Ken, as a kid i looked to my parents, extended family and neighbours for guidance. The idea that others should provide it is nonsense. As a teacher, i provide tons of support and guidance, but my primary role is as an educator.
Not sure what football team you support, but Bristol Rovers (my team, my local team) pay modest wages yet remain heroes for local young supporters.
pilninggas
14-08-11, 09:47 AM
Moral guidance Ken---think we should say 'Parents' first and foremost plus the fact that parents are legally responsible for their kids until 18. This point is missed time and time again--it isn't the taxpayers liability the damage and grief the scrotes cause.
Time for parents to be responsible and if there is some question over the parents moral integrity and ability to teach their kids basic 'right from wrong' then we are bringing into the equation the freedom to breed without scrutiny from the state/society :-?
Absolutely no doubt that discipline in school needs firming up considerably---the teaching profession and their associated political windbags of the last c.15 years have much to answer for---controversial ? I think not --- they[a generalisation] have seriously undermined the kids perceptions and understanding of authority and behaviour to societies detriment :'(
One other thing [maybe not ;) ]---- the culture around drugs has got to be destroyed--not helped by increased production in prehistoric Afghanshoiteland --ridiculous ::)
completely agree about discipline in schools, having been in school/college until about 18 months ago there was no discipline in the classroom and, this really gets me, all the kids who were constantly screaming, shouting, abusing teachers etc. got put in special classes and got to go on trips all the time and go paint balling, take days off to go off with a social worker to the beach because they "have a bad life at home" only to come back to school the next day and laugh and joke about how easy it is to BS these people and get loads of free stuff, do what they like and get rewarded for it... while i'm sat at the back of the classroom being completely bored because all the classes are have been dumbed down to the point of stupidity, being completely ignored by the teacher when i do actually need to ask something because they're trying to stop all the idiots throwing the smallest kid in the class out the window with harsh language! Bring back the cane and actually teach something interesting and worth while, don't dumb it down because Fred and Boris don't have the mental capacity to understand it, there are 30 other kids in the class who do understand it and want to move on, if Fred and Boris don't understand it and want to learn tell them to come back after the lesson so they can learn it, i guarantee they wouldn't because they're the first ones out the door at the end of the lesson because they're life ambition it is to have 10 kids and live on benefits! If the punishment for not doing the set work were a lash on the hand then people might think twice about not doing any work, as it is you can do fek all work be told to stay behind after the class, ignore it get told to go and see the headmaster ignore that too and it all goes away! What the hell kind of good is that?! If they get away with that at school is it any surprise they think they can get away with it in real life too?!
Rant over >:( really gets on my tits!
PS. there was actually a girl on my college course who's life goal was to have 3 kids, get a council house, live on benefits and die by the time she's 40!
and the worrying thing... is I'm not even joking!
As a teacher, it is really sad that you experienced this. I also find it really disgraceful that we indulge the kids who misbehave. Believe me, that i am very vocal about not rewarding the poorly behaved and anti-social kids where i teach. Sadly too many teachers forget that government policy has moved away from this (Gove's White Paper) and still think they are working under the wooly left-wing nonsense dreamed-up by 13 years of Labour. My approach is to reward those that work hard (i actually rank the highest of any teacher in the school for using the positive reward system), which is progressive and akin to mindset of self-accountability and free-enterprise.
redken1
14-08-11, 08:33 PM
Moral guidance Ken---think we should say 'Parents' first and foremost plus the fact that parents are legally responsible for their kids until 18. This point is missed time and time again--it isn't the taxpayers liability the damage and grief the scrotes cause.
Time for parents to be responsible and if there is some question over the parents moral integrity and ability to teach their kids basic 'right from wrong' then we are bringing into the equation the freedom to breed without scrutiny from the state/society :-?
Absolutely no doubt that discipline in school needs firming up considerably---the teaching profession and their associated political windbags of the last c.15 years have much to answer for---controversial ? I think not --- they[a generalisation] have seriously undermined the kids perceptions and understanding of authority and behaviour to societies detriment :'(
One other thing [maybe not ;) ]---- the culture around drugs has got to be destroyed--not helped by increased production in prehistoric Afghanshoiteland --ridiculous ::)
completely agree about discipline in schools, having been in school/college until about 18 months ago there was no discipline in the classroom and, this really gets me, all the kids who were constantly screaming, shouting, abusing teachers etc. got put in special classes and got to go on trips all the time and go paint balling, take days off to go off with a social worker to the beach because they "have a bad life at home" only to come back to school the next day and laugh and joke about how easy it is to BS these people and get loads of free stuff, do what they like and get rewarded for it... while i'm sat at the back of the classroom being completely bored because all the classes are have been dumbed down to the point of stupidity, being completely ignored by the teacher when i do actually need to ask something because they're trying to stop all the idiots throwing the smallest kid in the class out the window with harsh language! Bring back the cane and actually teach something interesting and worth while, don't dumb it down because Fred and Boris don't have the mental capacity to understand it, there are 30 other kids in the class who do understand it and want to move on, if Fred and Boris don't understand it and want to learn tell them to come back after the lesson so they can learn it, i guarantee they wouldn't because they're the first ones out the door at the end of the lesson because they're life ambition it is to have 10 kids and live on benefits! If the punishment for not doing the set work were a lash on the hand then people might think twice about not doing any work, as it is you can do fek all work be told to stay behind after the class, ignore it get told to go and see the headmaster ignore that too and it all goes away! What the hell kind of good is that?! If they get away with that at school is it any surprise they think they can get away with it in real life too?!
Rant over >:( really gets on my tits!
PS. there was actually a girl on my college course who's life goal was to have 3 kids, get a council house, live on benefits and die by the time she's 40!
and the worrying thing... is I'm not even joking!
As a teacher, it is really sad that you experienced this. I also find it really disgraceful that we indulge the kids who misbehave. Believe me, that i am very vocal about not rewarding the poorly behaved and anti-social kids where i teach. Sadly too many teachers forget that government policy has moved away from this (Gove's White Paper) and still think they are working under the wooly left-wing nonsense dreamed-up by 13 years of Labour. My approach is to reward those that work hard (i actually rank the highest of any teacher in the school for using the positive reward system), which is progressive and akin to mindset of self-accountability and free-enterprise.
Merv, with respect I disagree – we (Society) must stop writing these youngsters off and engage with them. We have still not learnt the lessons of the national riots of 1981 (on Thatcher’s watch). You keep referring to the past Labour administration as socialist and left-wing. Labour positioned itself right of centre and abandoned its socialist principles long before the party came to office in 97. Tony Blair has always been an admirer of Mrs T. Who was responsible for introducing the Public Private Partnership (PPP), to fund the building of our schools and hospitals? Who held the reins of power with a massive majority when the gap between the rich and poor widened year after year? I could go on and on, but the fact is that give or take a few minor differences in policies, the Labour and Tory party can both be likened to two peas in a pod.
Perhaps it would be fitting the next time Mr Blair and Mr Cameron attend one of Mr Murdoch’s BQs for all 3 men to end the evening with a rendition of “Land of hopelessness and gory.” :P
I agree don't write them off, but equaly don't molly coddle them, take them on trips, give them treats and generaly reward them be being little ****s! If they want to dick about and generaly disrupt the education of 25 other people in the classes, then have them do somthing to benefit society like cleaning the toilets, mopping the floors, clearing up the lunch hall after lunch. They would soon decide that they'd rather sit quietly and do their work!
Well there is some damning evidence from G30!!.
Seems that 'ability streaming' has been abandoned which ,from what G30 says, is impacting on the majority. Roll this scenario out through the country and it could be an immense problem. Surely kids are assessed throughout schooling and are provided suitable curriculae to challenge and educate pupils of all abilities. This was the case years ago and for the brighter examples Grammar schools existed which worked together with Secondary schools. Is it conceivable that we have failing schools, pupils, and importantly teachers in these modern times - some kids can't even read by 11 :o
These 'unruly' kids cost the taxpayer a fortune with their lack of discipline and the state provision of 'speshul' schools/schooling-fact. The state should not be pandering to them in this way or how G30 describes. Some more straight talking needs to be done especially to the parents ;D Is a state financed education a 'right' or a 'privilege' ? -another topic :)
A quite recent report by some education bods,whom I have forgotten, made the, not unsurprising, statement after their research that the majority of these 'attention deficit' 'hyper-actives' were not suffering from any such ailments but were actually not too bright - shock, horror.
These riots have opened up a huge debate about virtually everything :D
This is the thing col, they do assess you to "ability stream" as you put it, but only the first year you start secondary school. They then decide what "set" your in and that's that's until your GCSE year when they have a bit of a reshuffle. This is also assuming that these disruptive kids are all idiots, which unfortunatly isn't the case! Some of them are very smart but due to a lack of discipline and an emmense boredom throughout their school lives don't have any respect or self control! There were 1 maybe 2 teachers in the whole of my school that could control a class, both of them from an older generation of teachers where discipline wasn't frowned upon and somthing to avoid at all costs. There were also the only teachers who engaged with the class and made the class content interesting and even somtimes enjoyable. When working with these teachers some of the kids who were disruptive and belligerent at other times came through as some of the smartest kids in the class!
Now I'm not saying its all the teachers fault, although you do have to wonder if one teacher can do it, why can the rest?!
pilninggas
15-08-11, 09:47 AM
[/quote]
Merv, with respect I disagree – we (Society) must stop writing these youngsters off and engage with them. We have still not learnt the lessons of the national riots of 1981 (on Thatcher’s watch). You keep referring to the past Labour administration as socialist and left-wing. Labour positioned itself right of centre and abandoned its socialist principles long before the party came to office in 97. Tony Blair has always been an admirer of Mrs T. Who was responsible for introducing the Public Private Partnership (PPP), to fund the building of our schools and hospitals? Who held the reins of power with a massive majority when the gap between the rich and poor widened year after year? I could go on and on, but the fact is that give or take a few minor differences in policies, the Labour and Tory party can both be likened to two peas in a pod.
Perhaps it would be fitting the next time Mr Blair and Mr Cameron attend one of Mr Murdoch’s BQs for all 3 men to end the evening with a rendition of “Land of hopelessness and gory.” :P
[/quote]
I have never wrote kids off, and i don't think it is a case of that happening. Being a practical teacher, in my career i have taught many disengaged kids (boys in particular, many who are already heavily involved in crime/drugs), and have always tried to give them something to take on as a platform for further education or a skilled trade. One lad i taught a few years back was from a single-parent background and was involved in TWOC, he usually arrived late and would either sit and abuse myself and other students or try to procure chisels etc to vandalise stuff or steal for his TWOC'ing. We managed to get him a qualification (he seemed to hate coursework ;D, so it was tough going). Anyway 6 months later i'm in town and he came up to me, shoke my hand and burst into tears. He then apologised and said he realised that it was tough trying to get a job etc. As he had no guidance at home (his mother was on benefits, dad long gone) it needed him to go and see real-life to know this. The great thing for him was he realised it was down to him to show initiative and take repsonsibly for his own success. A year or two ago he won a young apprentice of the year award. He turned it around, no one else, he did demand respect, he learned to command it through his hardwork. Sadly he is a rarity.
The tutor group i had last academic year, were all hardworking and totally adorable 8-), however they often said to me how galling it was that the kids who misbehaved were allowed to go and do special activities or were bribed with sweets by my woolly, lefty colleagues. Really pissed me off, i usually made any extra effort to praise them or do a little buffet as a treat for them at the end of every term.
Even after i graduated, i did some really crappy jobs, i remember having to hand-dig a sewage pipe that had leaked on a building site and getting covered in ****. I did not expect a brilliant job on day 1, i also took responsibility for myself.
As for PPP, or any of these things, a total joke (one thing i dislike about thatcher's socialism), let's build a country on the never-never, d'oh >:(, still less paid in benefits and we might have some money in the public purse to do it debt free (fat chance now).
pilninggas
15-08-11, 09:48 AM
random double post
redken1
15-08-11, 06:58 PM
Merv, I really enjoy engaging with you in a sensible debate and I apologise if I have offended you with my comments relating to writing off our youngsters. I was referring to society in general and my comments were most certainly not directed at you.
pilninggas
15-08-11, 07:57 PM
Merv, I really enjoy engaging with you in a sensible debate and I apologise if I have offended you with my comments relating to writing off our youngsters. I was referring to society in general and my comments were most certainly not directed at you.
Ken, no bother, it takes a lot more than that to offend me- and in fairness i didn't think you meant i personally write them off. If i did write off any kids at work, i would not be fit to do my job [in fairness i gave-up on one kid in my first year of teaching, when he physically assaulted me, but i think that was a pretty fair reaction] ::)
I also enjoy the banter...... :P
wiltshire builders
15-08-11, 09:15 PM
Forget all that, did you hear David Starkey on Newsnight?
I get what he meant and kind of agree but bloody hell, don't say it on national tv if you're planning on getting any more work.
As soon as he mentioned Enoch Powell it was game over.
redken1
15-08-11, 09:59 PM
Watched Starkey a few times on the Question Time panel. A touch egotistic like Simon Cowell perhaps? I don't take him too seriously because I think he enjoys being controversial for the sake of it.
Forget all that, did you hear David Starkey on Newsnight?
I get what he meant and kind of agree but bloody hell, don't say it on national tv if you're planning on getting any more work.
As soon as he mentioned Enoch Powell it was game over.
Yeah WB I was pmsl !!!! nearly died when he started reading out what the girl had said - innit ;D
p.s. I think , in history, you'll find that Enoch Powell was originally in favour of encouraging immigration to bolster the work force----clearly later on his views changed ;D
p.p.s. Got to admit at least he had the nuts to say it on national tv---plenty just waffle to placate the sensibilities of vocal and ,sadly, influential minorities.
My uncle is a police officer in London and he is normally on the desk! He is quite a big fella...
And he had to go out in riot gear on the streets!
My couzin works in the call centre and before these riots she was due her four day rest needless to say, she wasnt allowed them and had to work over a week of 12 hour shifts....
Its terrible and gives people my age a bad name I an disgusted by it and when I saw the 12 year old boy swearing when he went to court then his mum swearing too, its no wonder why this happens...
This country is too soft!
billinom8
16-08-11, 08:43 PM
no point in sending in the armed forces, it's not like they can use their toys on the scum.
no point in seding in the police as they aren't allowed to use their toys on the scum.
send in the boys with the tranq darts, go round with a container lorry and scoop them all up. dump them on anthrax island and forget about them.
no riots will ever happen again in this country - nuff said.
human rights ? gotta act like one before you earn the rights of one. >:(
FJ_Biker
16-08-11, 09:41 PM
After reeding this thread and watching various news I have this to say, I believe there was only one riot and the rest was consumer looting.
For the people who complain about the European bill of human rights this question sticks in my mind about Europe, why is it only Britain, well England in this case that has been the only country to do this? Surely this points to thing(s) wrong in our country. The only other Western country I know that this happens (Consumer looting) is America and the cops there are not afraid to shoot.
I am not sticking up for the rioters (or Consumer looters) I hope the get punished for there actions and not a slap on the wrist, people died last week, lost their homes and possessions, businesses were damaged, peoples local town centres destroyed, the list goes on. I just feel by using violence on this situation you are burying the problems, last thing we want is looters on the street with guns, after all a gun was part of the catalyst that started this.
Just my thoughts.
Agree Taffy! Look today on the news they think that the rioters/looters got a harsh prision sentence! Come on!!!
Nothing harsh about it....
This country is too soft....
I would say try this in America and look at the prision sentence, it will be massive!
redken1
17-08-11, 07:35 PM
Problem is our prisons are full - that's Why Ken Clarke proposed to reduce sentences. Do we pay for more to be built?
Last Train
17-08-11, 07:39 PM
The rioter’s prayer:
Our father, who art in prison,
my mum knows not his name,
thy Riots come, read it in the Sun,
in Birmingham, as it is in London,
give us this day our Welfare bread & forgive us our looting,
as we're happy to loot those who defend stuff against us,
lead us not into employment but deliver us free housing,
for thine is the teles, the Burberry & the Bacardi,
forever and ever...
Innit....
The rioter’s prayer:
Our father, who art in prison,
my mum knows not his name,
thy Riots come, read it in the Sun,
in Birmingham, as it is in London,
give us this day our Welfare bread & forgive us our looting,
as we're happy to loot those who defend stuff against us,
lead us not into employment but deliver us free housing,
for thine is the teles, the Burberry & the Bacardi,
forever and ever...
Innit....
haha, that is ace xD
wasted_ace
18-08-11, 12:42 PM
According to Prince Charles..all these assholes in gangs are just "crying out for help"....wonder how he would feel about the hooded crim scum if they burned "The Palace" to the ground..mugged his mum and nicked all her fancy Jewellery ?
Some people like Charlie and that fat twat Ken Clarke are detached from reality >:(
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/08/18/prince-charles-joining-gangs-is-a-cry-for-help-115875-23352124/
wiltshire builders
18-08-11, 12:58 PM
According to Prince Charles..all these assholes in gangs are just "crying out for help"....wonder how he would feel about the hooded crim scum if they burned "The Palace" to the ground..mugged his mum and nicked all her fancy Jewellery ?
Some people like Charlie and that fat twat Ken Clarke are detached from reality >:(
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/08/18/prince-charles-joining-gangs-is-a-cry-for-help-115875-23352124/
Prince Charles called them assholes? +1 for Charlie boy! ;D
I'm really enjoying the look of shock on the looters faces as they get dragged out of bed by the cops. I honestly believe they think that it was ok because "everyone else was doing it"
All they've done is reduced our rights to protest and given the government more powers to push us around.
FJ_Biker
18-08-11, 02:29 PM
wasted_ace wrote
Some people like Charlie and that fat twat Ken Clarke are detached from reality
The sad thing is most of parliament and the House of Lords are made up of Public School boys and girls who don’t know what it is like to be a normal person in Briton. Where are the MP’s in parliament who have had run of the mill normal jobs and went to comprehensive school, very few and far between I know that much. We are represented by people who do not know much about our life styles that’s for sure.
Mini rant over
redken1
18-08-11, 07:58 PM
I’m not a Ken Clarke fan by any means but, he knows that the UK has one of the biggest prison populations (85,000) in the western world and that our prisons are full to capacity.
It costs £65,000 to imprison a person in this country once police, court costs and all the other steps are taken into account. After that it costs a further £40,000 for each year they spend incarcerated. If the growth in the prison population is not reversed then more prisons will have to be built, at a huge expense.
Jordan Blackshaw and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan were both convicted of inciting a riot on Facebook and jailed for 4 years each. If both served the full term the cost to the tax payer equates to loose change shy of half a million quid.
The country is bankrupt – it’s ok to keep calling for stiffer sentences, but would we accept a rise in taxes to pay for it?
redken1
18-08-11, 08:27 PM
Just heard that Tottenham signed a new Italian striker - Grabatelli
FJ_Biker
18-08-11, 08:34 PM
Ken Wrote
Jordan Blackshaw and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan were both convicted of inciting a riot on Facebook and jailed for 4 years each.
Normally getting someone to court and sentencing take ages, how come this has gone through so quick and by doing so will the evidence hold up later when some smart legal eagle goes through the case notes.
I have a feeling this is the government bowing down to the press again haven't they learnt lesson from Murdoch, they will end up with egg on their faces if someone finds faults in the case notes.
redken1
18-08-11, 08:42 PM
Ken Wrote
Jordan Blackshaw and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan were both convicted of inciting a riot on Facebook and jailed for 4 years each.
Normally getting someone to court and sentencing take ages, how come this has gone through so quick and by doing so will the evidence hold up later when some smart legal eagle goes through the case notes.
I have a feeling this is the government bowing down to the press again haven't they learnt lesson from Murdoch, they will end up with egg on their faces if someone finds faults in the case notes.
Taffy, I think an appeal will reduce the sentence by a cosiderable amount. One of the guys told the court he had too much to drink and was just having a laugh. An expensive laugh. You have to be so careful what you post on a public forum nowadays. I can’t believe what some people admit to on forums and social networks. Alot of people even tell you when they are on holiday - why not put an advert in the paper. :D
wasted_ace
19-08-11, 08:18 AM
I’m not a Ken Clarke fan by any means but, he knows that the UK has one of the biggest prison populations (85,000) in the western world and that our prisons are full to capacity.
It costs £65,000 to imprison a person in this country once police, court costs and all the other steps are taken into account. After that it costs a further £40,000 for each year they spend incarcerated. If the growth in the prison population is not reversed then more prisons will have to be built, at a huge expense.
Jordan Blackshaw and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan were both convicted of inciting a riot on Facebook and jailed for 4 years each. If both served the full term the cost to the tax payer equates to loose change shy of half a million quid.
The country is bankrupt – it’s ok to keep calling for stiffer sentences, but would we accept a rise in taxes to pay for it?
In short yes !..if crims are in the slammer then they aint looting,mugging or bundling your new R1 into the back of a transit ;)
Ken Clarke is a bumbling euro supporting waffler who, when Chancellor, introduced the ludicrous and ultimately crippling 'escalator' tax on fuel and baccy---total twat >:(
how the hell can it cost 40k p.a. to keep someone in nick :o can understand the £65k for excessively paid lawyers and state faffing about---are you paying too much tax ;D
redken1
19-08-11, 07:53 PM
Ken Clarke is a bumbling euro supporting waffler who, when Chancellor, introduced the ludicrous and ultimately crippling 'escalator' tax on fuel and baccy---total twat >:(
how the hell can it cost 40k p.a. to keep someone in nick :o can understand the £65k for excessively paid lawyers and state faffing about---are you paying too much tax ;D
Col, I can’t confirm whether or not the costs I quoted are correct – I sourced them from the Focus Prison Education (FPE) website. Like you, I have no time for Ken Clarke, I was merely pointing out that he was right about the prison population.
Interestingly, the number of prisoners reached an all time record high today of 86, 654 (Today’s Guardian), leaving only 1,439 spare useable places left in the jail system.
If the recent trend of 100 rioters per day receiving jail sentences continues, don’t be surprised to see prison officers calling last orders in two weeks.
I hope I am wrong, but as the prison population approaches full capacity, we could have another potential “Powder Keg” waiting to explode.
cornishbob
22-08-11, 08:25 PM
cure for the prison population - stop feeding them they die more space - simples
Last Train
26-08-11, 08:34 PM
Excellent article here, posted in another forum, which appeared in the Daily Telegraph shortly after the looting.
David Cameron, Ed Miliband and the entire British political class came together yesterday to denounce the rioters. They were of course right to say that the actions of these looters, arsonists and muggers were abhorrent and criminal, and that the police should be given more support.
But there was also something very phony and hypocritical about all the shock and outrage expressed in parliament. MPs spoke about the week’s dreadful events as if they were nothing to do with them.
I cannot accept that this is the case. Indeed, I believe that the criminality in our streets cannot be dissociated from the moral disintegration in the highest ranks of modern British society. The last two decades have seen a terrifying decline in standards among the British governing elite. It has become acceptable for our politicians to lie and to cheat. An almost universal culture of selfishness and greed has grown up.
It is not just the feral youth of Tottenham who have forgotten they have duties as well as rights. So have the feral rich of Chelsea and Kensington. A few years ago, my wife and I went to a dinner party in a large house in west London. A security guard prowled along the street outside, and there was much talk of the “north-south divide”, which I took literally for a while until I realised that my hosts were facetiously referring to the difference between those who lived north and south of Kensington High Street.
Most of the people in this very expensive street were every bit as deracinated and cut off from the rest of Britain as the young, unemployed men and women who have caused such terrible damage over the last few days. For them, the repellent Financial Times magazine How to Spend It is a bible. I’d guess that few of them bother to pay British tax if they can avoid it, and that fewer still feel the sense of obligation to society that only a few decades ago came naturally to the wealthy and better off.
Yet we celebrate people who live empty lives like this. A few weeks ago, I noticed an item in a newspaper saying that the business tycoon Sir Richard Branson was thinking of moving his headquarters to Switzerland. This move was represented as a potential blow to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne, because it meant less tax revenue.
I couldn’t help thinking that in a sane and decent world such a move would be a blow to Sir Richard, not the Chancellor. People would note that a prominent and wealthy businessman was avoiding British tax and think less of him. Instead, he has a knighthood and is widely feted. The same is true of the brilliant retailer Sir Philip Green. Sir Philip’s businesses could never survive but for Britain’s famous social and political stability, our transport system to shift his goods and our schools to educate his workers.
Yet Sir Philip, who a few years ago sent an extraordinary £1 billion dividend offshore, seems to have little intention of paying for much of this. Why does nobody get angry or hold him culpable? I know that he employs expensive tax lawyers and that everything he does is legal, but he surely faces ethical and moral questions just as much as does a young thug who breaks into one of Sir Philip’s shops and steals from it?
Our politicians – standing sanctimoniously on their hind legs in the Commons yesterday – are just as bad. They have shown themselves prepared to ignore common decency and, in some cases, to break the law. David Cameron is happy to have some of the worst offenders in his Cabinet. Take the example of Francis Maude, who is charged with tackling public sector waste – which trade unions say is a euphemism for waging war on low[ch8209]paid workers. Yet Mr Maude made tens of thousands of pounds by breaching the spirit, though not the law, surrounding MPs’ allowances.
A great deal has been made over the past few days of the greed of the rioters for consumer goods, not least by Rotherham MP Denis MacShane who accurately remarked, “What the looters wanted was for a few minutes to enter the world of Sloane Street consumption.” This from a man who notoriously claimed £5,900 for eight laptops. Of course, as an MP he obtained these laptops legally through his expenses.
Yesterday, the veteran Labour MP Gerald Kaufman asked the Prime Minister to consider how these rioters can be “reclaimed” by society. Yes, this is indeed the same Gerald Kaufman who submitted a claim for three months’ expenses totalling £14,301.60, which included £8,865 for a Bang & Olufsen television.
Or take the Salford MP Hazel Blears, who has been loudly calling for draconian action against the looters. I find it very hard to make any kind of ethical distinction between Blears’s expense cheating and tax avoidance, and the straight robbery carried out by the looters.
The Prime Minister showed no sign that he understood that something stank about yesterday’s Commons debate. He spoke of morality, but only as something which applies to the very poor: “We will restore a stronger sense of morality and responsibility – in every town, in every street and in every estate.” He appeared not to grasp that this should apply to the rich and powerful as well.
..........
Last Train
26-08-11, 08:35 PM
continued here....
The tragic truth is that Mr Cameron is himself guilty of failing this test. It is scarcely six weeks since he jauntily turned up at the News International summer party, even though the media group was at the time subject to not one but two police investigations. Even more notoriously, he awarded a senior Downing Street job to the former News of the World editor Andy Coulson, even though he knew at the time that Coulson had resigned after criminal acts were committed under his editorship. The Prime Minister excused his wretched judgment by proclaiming that “everybody deserves a second chance”. It was very telling yesterday that he did not talk of second chances as he pledged exemplary punishment for the rioters and looters.
These double standards from Downing Street are symptomatic of widespread double standards at the very top of our society. It should be stressed that most people (including, I know, Telegraph readers) continue to believe in honesty, decency, hard work, and putting back into society at least as much as they take out.
But there are those who do not. Certainly, the so-called feral youth seem oblivious to decency and morality. But so are the venal rich and powerful – too many of our bankers, footballers, wealthy businessmen and politicians.
Of course, most of them are smart and wealthy enough to make sure that they obey the law. That cannot be said of the sad young men and women, without hope or aspiration, who have caused such mayhem and chaos over the past few days. But the rioters have this defence: they are just following the example set by senior and respected figures in society. Let’s bear in mind that many of the youths in our inner cities have never been trained in decent values. All they have ever known is barbarism. Our politicians and bankers, in sharp contrast, tend to have been to good schools and universities and to have been given every opportunity in life.
Something has gone horribly wrong in Britain. If we are ever to confront the problems which have been exposed in the past week, it is essential to bear in mind that they do not only exist in inner-city housing estates.
The culture of greed and impunity we are witnessing on our TV screens stretches right up into corporate boardrooms and the Cabinet. It embraces the police and large parts of our media. It is not just its damaged youth, but Britain itself that needs a moral reformation.
8-)
redken1
26-08-11, 09:01 PM
Brill Last Train, I agree wholeheartedly – reposted one of my earlier posts on this thread.
Who should the young unemployed look to for moral guidance? The Bankers? The Law-makers who stole from the public purse? The Law-enforcers who allegedly took bungs for information? The media who allegedly hacked in to the phones of murdered children? Or what about their so called role models, footballers - champion's of morality on £250 thou a week?
When I predicted unprecedented civil unrest six months ago on numerous forums (including WB) and platforms, I was shouted down. It’s not rocket science – all the ingredients were in place. I reiterate, that the shooting in Tottenham was not the cause, merely the catalyst that lit the fuse.
cornishbob
26-08-11, 09:32 PM
lumpen prols were identified many many years ago. remove them from society and society benefits
redken1
27-08-11, 07:41 PM
lumpen prols were identified many many years ago. remove them from society and society benefits
Throwing the “Proletariats" (underclass) to the proverbial lions is not a long term option for the morally bankrupt ruling classes. The capitalist system can never deliver social harmony and a crime free society because it is underpinned by greed. The Haves will always hold on to their wealth at any cost and the Have-nots will go to any lengths to secure their share. Before the political elite can even begin to re-engage with the millions of disenfranchised UK citizens, they will need to demonstrate transparency accountability and above all honesty, within the corridors of power. They should climb down from the high moral ground - which they have no right to occupy - and take a long hard look at their own behaviour if they are to govern with any credibility.
FJ_Biker
28-08-11, 01:10 PM
Last Train wrote
Charles Moore Telegraph article
This pretty much sums up my views on the British system, thanks for posting. Just a shame no-one is tackling this.
cornishbob
29-08-11, 04:58 PM
redken1 - i think you misunderstand me. LUMPENS was a german who at the same time as communist ideas were being developed identified certain social groups that would not or could not intergrate into a communist/socialist society. the groups included bankers right down to tramps ans vagrants. basically as i read it the paracites(?) that feed off the rest off us the true proletatiats. only difference again as i understand it he advocated a more severe way os dealing them but stupidly education was chosen as the way forward.
Last Train wrote
Charles Moore Telegraph article
This pretty much sums up my views on the British system, thanks for posting. Just a shame no-one is tackling this.
+1 Well it is about time these issues were looked into after the 'wake-up call' riots.
Problem is the 'governments' are in control and actively encourage, either by naievity,lack of expertise/knowledge, unwilling to reduce costs of state employment,blah, blah, etc.
A reformation of 'the state and society' in its entirety is , perhaps, the only real solution.
redken1
29-08-11, 07:33 PM
redken1 - i think you misunderstand me. LUMPENS was a german who at the same time as communist ideas were being developed identified certain social groups that would not or could not intergrate into a communist/socialist society. the groups included bankers right down to tramps ans vagrants. basically as i read it the paracites(?) that feed off the rest off us the true proletatiats. only difference again as i understand it he advocated a more severe way os dealing them but stupidly education was chosen as the way forward.
Sorry for the misunderstanding Bob. Although closely linked, there are two definitions for Proletariats.
1 Workers or working-class people (often used with reference to Marxism). 2 The lowest class of citizens in ancient Rome. Never mind, at least I got the opportunity to make my point.
;)
cornishbob
29-08-11, 07:53 PM
no mis understanding just a deviation in ideology me thinks
Rioting hit Calne!!!
http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/Small-town-gang-cause-bemusement-Tesco-Express/story-13120472-detail/story.html
In a half-arsed rubbish kinda way!!!!! :D
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