Are things changing?

[FJ_Biker]

For people who think I am one of the moaners please save you time and read other posts. ;)

I'm begging to think we are starting to see a new type of revolution being born. It is in it's early stages at the moment.

There are a lot of protests staring around the world against the greed of the corporations and banks. Mainly peaceful protests started without the help of political parties and unions. It's like the system in place has failed them and they only have each other to turn to without any help from authorities or political parties. They do not have any political allegiances just want a to earn a fair days pay for a fair days work.

World
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15319924

Spain
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15315270

America
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15301200
http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

London stock exchange today also has protests
http://www.ukuncut.org.uk/actions/730

I have said this before I believe the politicians are acting in the interests of big business not the person on the street and I believe the world is starting to wake up to this fact. I dare say protests will slow down over winter because of the weather, but next spring I expect to see a lot more.

[Swanny]

The system is finished.

[redken1]

Veteran socialist firebrand Tony Benn used to observe that at left-wing demos people would wear badges against the bomb, badges against low pay and badges against racism. “But when will people start wearing badges against capitalism?” he asked. By the start of this century, more and more people across the globe were prepared to define themselves as ‘anti-capitalist’.

When you hear that the Big Six UK providers of gas and electricity saw their profit margins soar by 733 per cent in the last 4 months, surely a little moan is justified.? :P

[Mark_Able]

Bloody right Ken. Capitalism doesn't work, just as much as Communism didn't. All the time there are shareholders needing their pockets lined, average Joe is going to lose out. I hate the world we live in at the moment. But I particularly HATE banks... >:( >:( >:(

[R1CH]

What happens when people get scared

[NoYou]

What happens when people get scared
Is that a question or a statement?!
If its a question the answer is, chuck norris comes and tells them to man up!
If its a statement then... I agree. The masses have suddenly realized how many dodgy deals and backhanders go arround in new legislation and whatnot and they don't like it. Its been going on since the start of the civilized world but only now are people questioning it because this is the first time ever that you don't get hit with a massive "shut up or we'll shut you up" stick for asking the question!

[R1CH]

It's a statement.

So much uncertainty in everyones lifes people scared of losing their jobs and their way of life.
Having their life dictated by others having little control over anything that goes on and watch the rich get richer the poor get poorer, why wouldn't you be concerned?

Things have gone on for far to long and people have seen the effects around the world it has had when people stand up in order to make a change.
For to long people have just smiled and nodded and got on with it complaining in quiet.

[Nooj]

Going self employed has been a real eye opener regarding how many systems you have to comply with and pay for just to be allowed the privilege of working off your own efforts to earn a 'living'.

The banks and the insurance companies have stitched everything right up between them. Add tax to that and fees for 'specialist' services the banks and government have made mandatory for small businesses like accounting and legal help and you're lucky to make minimum wage even grossing a grand a week.

I earn well under minimum wage working for myself, constantly scraping a few quid together here and there, but if I put my prices up that'll drive off any existing customers. I've had to give back about a grands worth of equipment to get out of a contract because I couldn't afford legal assistance to fight my case and pay £300 to an accountant for perhaps two hour's work to finalise the arrangement, my van is falling to bits but I can't afford to repair or replace it because of the price of diesel and insurance.

Without winning the lottery I can't see how it's possible to start your own business without either doing a second full time job instead of sleeping or selling your soul to a bank who will then take every penny you have in loan interest.

I'm lucky that the Missus earns enough to (just) keep the house afloat while I try to build my business up, but she has to commute into central London every day to do that, so has no social life to speak of, perhaps having only two or three hours in the evening to keep up with her paperwork and then relax in. When her contract runs out in December there's a very good chance we'll end up homeless if nothing else turns up for her, even if I work full time for someone else I can't meet all our bills on my own as our mortgage and bills are now so high thanks to the greed of the banks, the utility companies, the council and the food shops.

December's getting very close now and we're both feeling the stress, even I can't sleep some nights and I've never had trouble doing that before.

Couple that with things like subsidence issues with our house because of poor repairs before we moved in (Halifax who sanctioned the old repairs are just ignoring all my letter, thieving bastard insurance companies again!) and things aren't a lot of fun here at the moment. But neither of us can afford to go out and escape it even for a couple of hours because the TV license and house insurance is due which will take all our spare money meaning out tiny safety net won't be there if Debz doesn't get her contract renewed. Yeah, we could do without TV, but it's all we have to take our minds off the problems for a few hours a night.

We've tried to sell the car, but even for a few hundred quid, despite working well enough, no-one wants it so it looks like it'll just go for scrap. I'm even trying to give up my one bottle of beer a night, which is my only real luxury (The bike is sat in the garage gathering dust again, can't afford to replace the tyres or run it, would get a pittance if I sold it) as it'll save me just about enough to buy some materials with in a few weeks.

Every time I manage to get enough money together to improve either the van, or the house, or even have a night out, something happens that requires exactly that amount of money so I am nearly always constantly broke.

I try and go three days at a time without a shower to save money, I exist mostly on cornflakes, bread and cheese as anything else is out of my price range. Facebook is my social life as I can't afford to travel to see my friends in real life and I am absolutely sick to ****ing death of it!!

But that seems to be the price to be paid for having a job I enjoy and trying to get by on my own. I've spent years working for clueless middle managing pricks in dirty factories and if have to deal with someone like that again I may well end up in court on an assault charge, or in an institution as a drugged up zombie with acute depression.

I don't need to be a multi millionaire, all I want to do is get by and maybe see a bit of the world once or twice a year with my friends, that can be done quite cheaply so why does that have to be so difficult to achieve?? How come I can't do that, yet the companies in the building my Missus works in can afford to fly flowers in from Africa to put on their reception tables every friday?? How can an accountant at the bottom of the road earn more in a day than I earn in two weeks?? How can utility companies post record profits year after year when I can barely afford to buy myself food every week.

I don't think I'm alone in this situation either, there are plenty of seemingly comfortably-off middle aged, middle class people who are getting frighteningly close to developing world living conditions in what is supposed to be a rich country. But what can I do?? Write a letter to my MP? Go rioting and smash up TK Maxx? What will that achieve? I've never in my life felt so utterly wrung-out and powerless, there seems to be no respite from this financial and mental drain, and the people who we're supposed to take guidance from and be looked after by are the very people taking all our money away!

But again what can we do? Protest and get beaten by the Police? Write letters and get ignored? Withhold payments and get fined more money for doing so, then get arrested AND beaten by the Police? I don't know.

[redken1]

Today, Greek riot police have fired tear gas and fought running battles with protesters, amid a 48-hour general strike that has paralysed the country.
Some protesters hurled petrol bombs and stones at the police, as a march by tens of thousands of people in central Athens turned violent.
Many Greeks are furious at austerity plans being discussed in parliament.
EU leaders and global finance chiefs have flown to Germany to discuss the eurozone crisis.

Unless the politicians across Europe start listening to the voice of the people I fear that we could see such scenes replicated across the continent?

Nooj, it feels like we exist to serve the state and not vice-versa anymore.

[Swanny]

Youtube has been told by the governments not to show any Occupy Wall st videos. But there are still some out there.
They don't want us to know what's happening. Funny that when they were all up for us knowing about protest in Libya etc :-/


Italy has riots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93m2UCCN5qI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjhzVjbK4WM&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o-1TdemR7_Q#!

The people have had enough

[Swanny]

The police didn't attack him though :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9HvJhilJzo&feature=player_embedded

[FJ_Biker]

Youtube has been told by the governments not to show any Occupy Wall st videos. But there are still some out there.
They don't want us to know what's happening. Funny that when they were all up for us knowing about protest in Libya etc
This is hypocrisy of the first degree, protesters are basically asking for the same thing a fairer society.

You can get live coverage from St Pauls London here (the cam is not on-line at the moment, but the last three mornings it been working)
http://occupylsx.org/?page_id=11

Some truth on an American news program
http://www.youtube.com/embed/XB7PwcC9qzw

More from the military man from Swanny's clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5_dZez-OTw&feature=player_embedded

I know I've posted this link before but reading people info brings a tear to your eye
http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

Two of the above video's were link's from
http://occupyeverywhere.blogspot.com/

I am hoping that this is the start better things for the 99%

[Nooj]

I am hoping that this is the start better things for the 99%

You and me both, but I think it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Not normally a miserable git, but this is really grating one me.

One of the Missus's friends that she used to work with a couple of years ago has been made redundant today. Amgen, at one time the biggest pharma IT company in the world is now laying people off. Bet their directors will still get massive bonuses come the year end though >:(

[redken1]

The richest people in Britain have seen their fortunes soar by a fifth in the past year despite the fact that much of the UK is struggling to recover from the recession. >:(
The 2011 Sunday Times Rich List, published recently, reveals that the 1,000 wealthiest people in the country are now worth a combined £395.8 billion, equivalent to more than a third of the national debt. :o
The number of billionaires has risen from 53 to 73, while nine people have seen their fortunes rise by £1 billion or more during the past 12 months alone.

Don’t despair; seek comfort in our Leader’s words, “We are all in this together.”
[smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

[Nooj]

From a recent financial report on Amgen, who the Missus' friend worked for until today:


Its net profit last year totaled $4.63 billion
(http://www.biojobblog.com/2011/10/articles/biojobbuzz/big-changes-in-store-for-amgen-employees/)

Yet they are making redundancies world-wide as they can't afford to keep employees on?


We are all in this together.
Absolute crap.

[Toph]

Remember a person called Neil Kinnock ken?
Socialist, leader of the Labour party, indeed very nearly a labour prime minister. man of the people, working class hero??
look at him now.... SNOUT FIRMLY IN THE TROUGH.... joined the Euro freebie money fest at the earliest possible opportunity, lined his pockets with taxpayers hard earned cash, indeed, got his family involved... nice bit of nepotism, wife and kid's snouts in the trough as well, nice work if you can get it.
Blair's now happily feathering his nest, on the lucrative "diplomatic " earner.
politicians, which ever social leaning , are , in my opinion, only in it for one thing... the enhancement of themselves, it's not just Torys, Lib Dems, or Labour, if the opportunity of big bucks drop in their lap....nom nom nom.

[redken1]

Remember a person called Neil Kinnock ken?
Socialist, leader of the Labour party, indeed very nearly a labour prime minister. man of the people, working class hero??
look at him now.... SNOUT FIRMLY IN THE TROUGH.... joined the Euro freebie money fest at the earliest possible opportunity, lined his pockets with taxpayers hard earned cash, indeed, got his family involved... nice bit of nepotism, wife and kid's snouts in the trough as well, nice work if you can get it.
Blair's now happily feathering his nest, on the lucrative "diplomatic " earner.
politicians, which ever social leaning , are , in my opinion, only in it for one thing... the enhancement of themselves, it's not just Torys, Lib Dems, or Labour, if the opportunity of big bucks drop in their lap....nom nom nom.

Chris, could not agree more. In my earlier post I was making the point that politicians across Europe are just not listening to the voice of the people. Blair was never a socialist and I have about as much respect for Kinnock as I do for Thatcher. Putting political leanings to one side, I have no doubt in my mind that the time will come, sooner rather than later, when ordinary people will say enough is enough. Millions of people around the globe are finally waking up to the fact that politicians are merely puppets of Big Business. The Dam of wealth has been fortified and the “Trickle-down effect” is drying up.

[Swanny]

The police are getting nasty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eOmKyS7Wik

[Swanny]

I love this marines way with words :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hT2r78OZwns

;D


This is the best speech I've heard at OWS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM59MxsYh1w

[Nooj]

Shell = £54,000,000 profit PER DAY! WTF???

I know you need a good profit so you can keep developing new ideas, but £54million A DAY!!

[Swanny]

The police are forgetting that they are part of the 99%

http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/occupy-melbourne-riot-police-drag-protesters-from-city-square/story-e6frfkp9-1226172791776

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rxnQFO6048M#!

[FJ_Biker]

Looks like St Pauls have been leaned on

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15406865

This comment says it all really

The list of sponsors of the Cathedral include:
Lloyds TSB Group plc
City of London Corporation
The Schroder Foundation
Goldman Sachs International
UBS Investment Bank
McKinsey & Company
N M Rothschild & Sons Ltd
The London Stock Exchange
Not to mention their 5.3 billion hedge fund managed investments.
Symbolically St Pauls is an entirely appropriate place to occupy.

[NiteW4tcher]

i didnt pay enough attention at shcool and am really thick when it comes to politics and such like.

i wouldnt understand 90% of what is going on in this thread.

but all i know is im fed up with having my life made worse and worse and there are still ppl out there that get EVERYTHING FOR NOTHING.

sorry if this isnt the point that was being talked about here.

i called the council office otherday because im struggling to meet my council tax payments each month......i basically got told to f off and stop whinging. the woman was very rude aswell....she said i shoud do more and earn more. ( at this point my girlfriend ripped the phone from me incase i let loose my rage about what the woman had said)

rich get richer poor get poorer.............and i dont see how its going to change.

what i say needs to happen is the average joe should bring england to a grinding holt. and MAKE them listen.

is this likley to happen via politics alone? doubt it. if i had my way id grab the MP's lock them in a room of wild hyienas that have not seen food for 4 2 months!!!

[redken1]

A couple of years ago, Susan a good friend of mine who is a cleaner for a multi-million pounds profitable company, told me a story which sticks in my mind. As she was vacuuming the last couple of treads at the bottom of the staircase leading to the main offices, one of the directors of the company was making his way down.

Susan looked up and noticed that he was eating a cake and the crumbs were falling all the way down the stairwell. Looking up at the director, she said “I’ve just hoovered all that, could you not use a plate?” To her astonishment, he retorted, “Think yourself lucky, if it was not for people like me people like you wouldn’t have a job.”

I suggested to Susan, that the next time she sees her boss she should politely advise him that: One day, ‘people like me’ might just get fed up with watching ‘people like you’ eat your cake while we Hoover up your crumbs. I don’t know why Susan laughed because I wasn’t joking.

[FJ_Biker]

NiteW4tcher it looks to me like you understand what is going on

More links

It's important to get your news from more than one source
http://english.aljazeera.net/Services/Search/?q=occupy%20wall%20street

Live footage
http://www.livestream.com/guide/search?search_tag=occupy%20wall%20street

http://www.occupytogether.org/

[redken1]

Thanks for the link Taffy - gonna make contact with the organisers - would love to be a tiny part of the beginning of the end of profit before people world. :P

[Col]

The fact is these protests will diminish and nothing will happen simply because the majority of the 99% are too comfortable in their status quo.

Until a majority are in real poverty then the 'establishment' will remain and continue.

This has been repeated throughout history of which the most global example was the rise of Hitler in poverty stricken, high inflation, Germany. The mass poverty galvanised the Germans to support a man saying what they wanted to hear in a forceful and commanding manner and focussing blame on the Jews which in turn escalated to everyone else pretty much ;D The military, no more than a puppet army after WW1, saw this opportunity to regain lost honour and for Germany to become ,through acquisition of countries, the dominant power.

Is the pub open ?---ahhh yes it is ;D

[redken1]

Col, you must remember that protesters of the past never had such an effective communications link like the internet. I missed an anti-poll tax demo because I got the date wrong, but now I can make contact with anyone around the world at anytime. These protests may be small ('oak trees grow from acorns'), but when did we last see a global demo with a common aim.

As a matter of interest, the majority of the world’s population is living in poverty. Half the US defence budget would pay for free drinking water for everyone in Africa.

[Swanny]

The directors of Britain's largest companies were last night condemned as "elite greedy pigs" for pocketing a 49 per cent pay rise in the past year, while average workers failed even to keep up with inflation.

Unions exploded with fury after the publication of figures that showed how boardroom pay soared in the last financial year, thanks to rising salaries, bonuses and in particular the swelling value of directors' long-term share plans. The statistics, compiled by Incomes Data Services, provide an annual snapshot of executive remuneration, as reported in companies' most recent reports to shareholders, and show that the chief executives of the FTSE 100 largest companies earned an average of £3,855,172 last year. That is an average 43 per cent rise and, adding in other directors, total earnings rose by an average 49 per cent.

They are taking the piss :-/

[redken1]

The directors of Britain's largest companies were last night condemned as "elite greedy pigs" for pocketing a 49 per cent pay rise in the past year, while average workers failed even to keep up with inflation.

Unions exploded with fury after the publication of figures that showed how boardroom pay soared in the last financial year, thanks to rising salaries, bonuses and in particular the swelling value of directors' long-term share plans. The statistics, compiled by Incomes Data Services, provide an annual snapshot of executive remuneration, as reported in companies' most recent reports to shareholders, and show that the chief executives of the FTSE 100 largest companies earned an average of £3,855,172 last year. That is an average 43 per cent rise and, adding in other directors, total earnings rose by an average 49 per cent.

They are taking the piss :-/

Ye Swanny, read the article to which you refer in the newspaper.

Let’s hope that ‘Joe Public’ is as sympathetic towards the ground troops when they engage in the “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander” battle. After all, “We are all in this together.”
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[Toph]

I think this puts a little perspective on this...I have been in full time employment as a welder ever since I left school, I work on average 44 hours a week, I'm now 51 years old, therefore I have worked for 35 years, in that time I have earned gross... not net... , considerably less than 25% of just one years salary of one of these executives. >:(
Hey... If I work for 142 years, I'll earn what one of these execs get in one year. 8-)

[redken1]

What are all these greedy people doing with all this money? “Wallpapering the walls of their “Ivory Towers” with it. You can bet when the wage negotiation talks come around these same people will be calling on their respective workforces to show restraint. Hypocrites of the first degree. >:( >:( >:(

[redken1]

I think this puts a little perspective on this...I have been in full time employment as a welder ever since I left school, I work on average 44 hours a week, I'm now 51 years old, therefore I have worked for 35 years, in that time I have earned gross... not net... , considerably less than 25% of just one years salary of one of these executives. >:(
Hey... If I work for 142 years, I'll earn what one of these execs get in one year. 8-)

You just might have to work till you are 142 Chris if they keep raising the ritirement age. ;D

[FJ_Biker]

The directors of Britain's largest companies were last night condemned as "elite greedy pigs" for pocketing a 49 per cent pay rise in the past year, while average workers failed even to keep up with inflation.

Unions exploded with fury after the publication of figures that showed how boardroom pay soared in the last financial year, thanks to rising salaries, bonuses and in particular the swelling value of directors' long-term share plans. The statistics, compiled by Incomes Data Services, provide an annual snapshot of executive remuneration, as reported in companies' most recent reports to shareholders, and show that the chief executives of the FTSE 100 largest companies earned an average of £3,855,172 last year. That is an average 43 per cent rise and, adding in other directors, total earnings rose by an average 49 per cent.

They are taking the piss

It just beggars belief. I wonder how much these big fat cats pay in tax after their cleaver accountants look after their money.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15487866