View Full Version : Is it time for dog owners to take the lead?
redken1
22-01-12, 08:21 PM
How often do we here this?
A 56-year-old man has been arrested after a dog bit off part of a six-year-old girl's ear in a park in Chingford Essex.
The girl also suffered injuries to her neck and shoulder and has undergone plastic surgery at a hospital in Essex.
Det Sgt Stuart Cheek, of the Metropolitan police said, "This was an appalling incident that left a young child with serious injuries which are likely to scar her for life."
Police added that the incident was "unprovoked.”
In the wake of this appalling attack there are repeated calls for new legislation for owners to keep all dogs on leads whilst walking in public areas.
cornishbob
22-01-12, 08:32 PM
should it not be the owners that are kept on tight reins?
it would be cages if i had my way.
Squashed_Fly
22-01-12, 08:57 PM
No such thing as bad dogs - just bad owners.
You can't keep dogs on leads, they need to be able to run and get exercise, just like the rest of us. That doesn't mean that certain breeds of dogs, or aggresive individuals of other breeds shouldn't be walked outside of 'normal hours' (ie early mornings/late nights), or with muzzles, but in the main, if well looked after, even pitt bulls and rotties make good pets.
Our dog (a soppy chocolate lab) wouldn't harm a fly, but I still wouldn't let him run around in a childrens play area. Sometimes accidents happen, and a playful nip can be a serious problem. Rolo has bitten me when playing tug of war. Completely accidental, but if that were a child, he wouldn't be given the chance to argue. We've spent many hours training him though, and he always comes back when called. Even to the point our neighbours sometimes take him out with their dogs so if they call Rolo, their dogs will follow him back! ;D
NiteW4tcher
22-01-12, 09:17 PM
i recently had a woman go ballistic at me becase my akita was roaming free in a dog park.
her words were THAT dog should be kept on a lead. i asked her to explain herself. she accused the breed of being a aggressive breed.
when i asked her to name the breed of my dog she called it a husky. so i corrected her and once again asked her to explain her reasoning behind her statement.
she shook her head picked up her rat of a dog and walked away, i called to her repeatedly to explain herself bust she just walked away. >:(
my akita has only ever defender herself......she has been attacked 3 times.....twice by a pack of 6 jack russels ( same woman both times she accused my dog of being aggressive) and a toy poodle.
Squashed_Fly
22-01-12, 09:21 PM
Jack Russells are among the most aggressive dog breeds around. The fact they are so small means that almost all of their attacks aren't reported as they do almost no damage.
Small dogs often have big attitudes!
Squashed_Fly
22-01-12, 09:26 PM
Does this look like the face of a killer?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/381549_10150505345654460_787334459_10406416_111384 3669_n.jpg
redken1
22-01-12, 09:42 PM
Does this look like the face of a killer?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/381549_10150505345654460_787334459_10406416_111384 3669_n.jpg
Aidan I had a black Lab and then a golden one, sadly both in Doggie heaven now. :( Both were clumbsy and soppy and would lick you to death.
NiteW4tcher
22-01-12, 09:46 PM
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/377034_10150360969427087_569462086_8471686_1272677 82_n.jpg]
killer dog :D
I have the most sociable dog ever but never trust her around excitable children (and bicycles). At the end of the day every dog has survival and hunting instincts. However much we regard them as pets, these instincts are still there under the surface.
As the pack leader, it's for the owner to take responsibility for their animal.
NiteW4tcher
22-01-12, 09:48 PM
I have the most sociable dog ever but never trust her around excitable children (and bicycles). At the end of the day every dog has survival and hunting instincts. However much we regard them as pets, these instincts are still there under the surface.
As the pack leader, it's for the owner to take responsibility for their animal.
totally agree sky just likes to say hi to everyone but she is a little big and a little too fast sometimes
Im very sorry but as a mother I would not be happy if I come across a dog roaming free where any children are likely to be...no matter how soppy or soft they are......Connor had a bad experience with a friends dog and I am extremely careful about him around any dog
Im sure lots of people have wonderfully well trained dogs but in any public place they should be on a lead. Take them to a field away from people and let them run etc...there are loads of places that are dog walks......and I dont go to them because we may come across one that will be scarey and undo all the hard work I have put in trying to help Connor get over his fear....Im sure once he is bigger it will be easier but having a 'lovely' chocolate lab jump on his back and dig its claws in him leaving deep scratches down both sides has left a lasting impression.
So if you let your dog off its lead please be aware some people will take offence and get cross because of previous incidents with dogs off leads and that will stick with them no matter what the owner may say.
Probably stereotyping but at the end of the day my childs welfare will come first. (Hence we do not tend to go for walks where there may be loose dogs.)
P.S. I am a dog lover too...but I will not own one...took me long enough to come round to having a kitten lol
NiteW4tcher
22-01-12, 10:15 PM
Im very sorry but as a mother I would not be happy if I come across a dog roaming free where any children are likely to be...no matter how soppy or soft they are......Connor had a bad experience with a friends dog and I am extremely careful about him around any dog
Im sure lots of people have wonderfully well trained dogs but in any public place they should be on a lead. Take them to a field away from people and let them run etc...there are loads of places that are dog walks......and I dont go to them because we may come across one that will be scarey and undo all the hard work I have put in trying to help Connor get over his fear....Im sure once he is bigger it will be easier but having a 'lovely' chocolate jab jump on his back and dig its claws in him has left a lasting impression.
So if you let your dog off its lead please be aware some people will take offence and get cross because of previous incidents with dogs off leads and that will stick with them no matter what the owner may say.
Probably stereotyping but at the end of the day my childs welfare will come first. (Hence we do not tend to go for walks where there may be loose dogs.)
P.S. I am a dog lover too...but I will not own one...took me long enough to come round to having a kitten lol
i understand your point and its a valid one. reveres it now. i live by a park dedicated to dogs there is a LARGE sign stating this. yet we find family's trying to have picnics there and then give me dog walkers ****.
thankfully there are sensible people like yourself who stay away from dog areas :)
Squashed_Fly
22-01-12, 10:19 PM
Im very sorry but as a mother I would not be happy if I come across a dog roaming free where any children are likely to be...no matter how soppy or soft they are......Connor had a bad experience with a friends dog and I am extremely careful about him around any dog
If another child attacked him, and he was frightened to go near other kids, would you insist that all other children should be on leads as well?
Well behaved, well trained dogs have just as much right to be off the lead as well behaved children. That said, I still wouldn't take rolo into a playground. But not becasue I was worried he would attack. But if we go to the beach, or to the country park/woods etc, it would be cruel to keep him leashed.
I won't say too much more on the subject, as it can be a contentious one from a worried parents pint of view, especially one that's not a dog owner, but you have to keep personal feelings aside and look at the big picture when making judgements. It's only natural for you to feel how you do if Connor had a bad experience. But I could show you clips online of children almost beating each other to death for fun and videoing it. Look at the Bulger killers....
DaytonaDog
22-01-12, 10:29 PM
Dog attacks are very isolated incidents when you consider the number of dogs owned in this country and the majority of dog owners are responsible people. Most complaints received about dog attacks are from dogs owners complaining that another dog has attacked theirs. I have investigated a few of these types of complaints as have my colleagues and I have only ever investigated one incident where a dog attacked a human. I won't go into details but owners were not responsible and provoked the situation leading to the dog attacking.
As SF has already stated there are no bad dogs just bad owners. As is often the case, when an incident occurs like this, it invokes a knee jerk reaction, with people calling for a change in the legislation, with the end result being that the vast majority suffer. For example after Dunblane, the legal ownership of handguns was outlawed, with the law abiding gun owners punished. Has this stopped the use of handguns by criminals. Most certainly not.
I own a dog, and take my responsbilities very seriously. Fortunately my hound is a big softy with an excellent temperament and I am confident that he wouldn't hurt a flea. However he had a tendency when he was a puppy to go bounding up to people out walking and being of the larger breed of dog this could be daunting for those uncomfortable with dog, so I took it upon myself to obtain some specialist training to stop this from happening. Dogs need exercise and stimulation and the opportunity to have a run around and socialise with other dogs. This cannot be done on a lead.
Unfortunately there are elements of society who are purchasing certain types of dog, i.e, pit bulls and staffies, as a status symbol and as a weapon of choice. One such colourful character said his reason for having his dog was that he would only get a fine if his dog attacked somebody as opposed to a potential custodial sentence for possessing a knife.
There is currently legislation that deals with dangerous dogs and dogs out of control. Instead of drafting new legislation, maybe the answer would be to have stronger punishments for committing offences under the current legislation in existance.
NiteW4tcher
22-01-12, 10:39 PM
I own a dog, and take my responsbilities very seriously. Fortunately my hound is a big softy with an excellent temperament and I am confident that he wouldn't hurt a flea. However he had a tendency when he was a puppy to go bounding up to people out walking and being of the larger breed of dog this could be daunting for those uncomfortable with dog, so I took it upon myself to obtain some specialist training to stop this from happening. Dogs need exercise and stimulation and the opportunity to have a run around and socialise with other dogs. This cannot be done on a lead.
well said i have same issue because sky is larger breed and very boundy and excitable
I had to put my best friend to sleep just before Christmas.
We are still missing him dreadfully.
My boy "Oscar" was a Beagle and we called him 'The King of all dogs'.
I only had one occasion where this 'off the lead' thing was an issue for us.
We were out in a dog friendly park area where I live having our usual two hour walk / sniff.
It was late November and it was dark (8:00pm).
We were both walking along a path and came across a couple who were about 25 feet off the path looking through a fence, onto a new house build.
Obviously, it was night and my dog barked to alert me that someone was around.
Bearing in mind that my dog did not make a move towards these people their actions were completely inappropriate (As follows):
The guy ran at us (25ft) to attempt a kick at my dog. I blocked him and said that if he attempted that again I would deck him. He them proceeded to tell me that if his 3 and a half year old daughter had been there she would have been terrified (She wasn't there anyway???)
I then said to him "Your daughter is not here" - he said "No - she's in the car"
I then said "do you think it's wise to leave your three and a half year old daughter alone in the car?" He then disapeared rather quickly with his tail between his legs!
Bearing in mind that my dog only barked once and made no move towards them -their actions were completely unbelievable.
I do understand that some people are afraid of dogs and I (as a responsible dog owner) would put a dog on the lead if it was requested however, there are ways of getting your point across without
trying to kick a defenceless animal - Shocking!
Squashed_Fly
22-01-12, 11:28 PM
I own a dog, and take my responsbilities very seriously. Fortunately my hound is a big softy with an excellent temperament and I am confident that he wouldn't hurt a flea. However he had a tendency when he was a puppy to go bounding up to people out walking and being of the larger breed of dog this could be daunting for those uncomfortable with dog, so I took it upon myself to obtain some specialist training to stop this from happening. Dogs need exercise and stimulation and the opportunity to have a run around and socialise with other dogs. This cannot be done on a lead.
well said i have same issue because sky is larger breed and very boundy and excitable
Same with Rolo. 2 Year old choccy lab, just wants to jump up and lick everyone to death. It's easy to see why that can come accross as scary to a non-dog person, hence why we pop him on his lead if there are large groups of people/kids nearby.
He doesn't understand that friendly lick could be mis-construed as an attempted attack. He just wants to give everyone kisses and show them how much of an overwhelming enthusiasm for life he has!
We tend to walk him in places though, where there are lots of dog people out as well. I don't mean your local park with the idiots that have their chihuahuas on leads, or in handbags, ordering me to keep my dog on a lead. I mean open areas with lots of dog owners that actually have a clue about dogs and let them run and socialise together. Anyone who knows about dogs, will know they are lots more defensive/aggressive when on a lead than off it.
Terriers do no damage.....really?? never been out with the hounds then? terriers are lethal little things! i currently have 3 spaniels, one is a guy who i shoot with that is here for training and my huntaway, this third spaniel is a bit snappy but training a dog is the best challenge you can take on, that said iv had him for 10 days now and hes is fine,the guy was quite offended when i asked him to come for a weekend because its him who needs training now, in my experience if you use your dog for the purpose it is bred for you wont have to worry about being in public parks etc, a working dog is a happy dog. i must confess im not a believer in having a dog as a pet, like everything if it has no purpose why have it? :)
wiltshire builders
23-01-12, 10:42 AM
in my experience if you use your dog for the purpose it is bred for you wont have to worry about being in public parks etc, a working dog is a happy dog. i must confess im not a believer in having a dog as a pet, like everything if it has no purpose why have it? :)
Totally agree, but I should keep the lid handy for the can of worms you've just opened.
in my experience if you use your dog for the purpose it is bred for you wont have to worry about being in public parks etc, a working dog is a happy dog. i must confess im not a believer in having a dog as a pet, like everything if it has no purpose why have it? :)
Totally agree, but I should keep the lid handy for the can of worms you've just opened.
I stand firmly by my statement so let the ridicule begin ;) There are far too many dogs in rescue centres and being abandoned all of wich are because they are cute as puppies and when things go wrong they are expensive, Im not for a second saying that anybody's dog is not cared for properly but the only time i need to have my dogs in a public place is when we go to the vets (shooting season thats usually about 6 times) so never any problems
Last Train
23-01-12, 12:02 PM
There's been much study of the rabid and mange riddled beast we know as the dog and, almost without exception, the conclusion is that termination is the only feasible remedy.
By their very nature, a bloodthirsty, carnivorous intent, they are untreatable.
These werehounds don't have owners, get a grip,
they have only feeders that provide them sustenance twixt hunts.
Everyone should pack a large shooter whenever you venture onto their hunting grounds.
Don't think, shoot.
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
There's been much study of the rabid and mange riddled beast we know as the dog and, almost without exception, the conclusion is that termination is the only feasible remedy.
By their very nature, a bloodthirsty, carnivorous intent, they are untreatable.
These werehounds don't have owners, get a grip,
they have only feeders that provide them sustenance twixt hunts.
Everyone should pack a large shooter whenever you venture onto their hunting grounds.
Don't think, shoot.
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
;D ;D ;D
Seems a fair assesment!!!
wiltshire builders
23-01-12, 12:32 PM
in my experience if you use your dog for the purpose it is bred for you wont have to worry about being in public parks etc, a working dog is a happy dog. i must confess im not a believer in having a dog as a pet, like everything if it has no purpose why have it? :)
Totally agree, but I should keep the lid handy for the can of worms you've just opened.
I stand firmly by my statement so let the ridicule begin ;) There are far too many dogs in rescue centres and being abandoned all of wich are because they are cute as puppies and when things go wrong they are expensive, Im not for a second saying that anybody's dog is not cared for properly but the only time i need to have my dogs in a public place is when we go to the vets (shooting season thats usually about 6 times) so never any problems
I stand firmly by my statement. I TOTALLY AGREE! It's only in the last few decades that we've let animals share our homes and in some cases treat them better than humans (you seem to like to argue. Even with someone who's agreeing with you)
im not a believer in having a dog as a pet, like everything if it has no purpose why have it? :)
Life would become a wee bit sad if everything HAD to have a purpose though ;)
im not a believer in having a dog as a pet, like everything if it has no purpose why have it? :)
Life would become a wee bit sad if everything HAD to have a purpose though ;)
Agreed - we would miss the first belly-button of Spring etc ;)
G :)
And before you pedants tell me the reason we have one (to gather fluff so I'm told) it was my little attempt to bring some much needed humour into the thread.
If you want a serious post - The Dunlop Training Method had worked for falconers for many years and I firmly recommend it.
In the wake of this appalling attack there are repeated calls for new legislation for owners to keep all dogs on leads whilst walking in public areas.
Answering as a dog lover, dog owner and mum of a young child (no intended order of preference there!) its very difficult to answer - what is a public place?
I wouldn't dream of letting my dogs run loose in a kids play area but I wouldn't take them there either but I certainly let them off the lead in open areas and fields etc.
One thing no ones mentioned is that some parents really need to educate kids not to go up to a strange dog and assume its friendly. My dogs have grown up with my daughter and I can trust them 99.99% not to hurt anyone but how does a stranger know that? It astounds me that so many children will often go to stroke them when parents are there without even asking if the dog is friendly.
in my experience if you use your dog for the purpose it is bred for you wont have to worry about being in public parks etc, a working dog is a happy dog. i must confess im not a believer in having a dog as a pet, like everything if it has no purpose why have it? :)
Totally agree, but I should keep the lid handy for the can of worms you've just opened.
I stand firmly by my statement so let the ridicule begin ;) There are far too many dogs in rescue centres and being abandoned all of wich are because they are cute as puppies and when things go wrong they are expensive, Im not for a second saying that anybody's dog is not cared for properly but the only time i need to have my dogs in a public place is when we go to the vets (shooting season thats usually about 6 times) so never any problems
I stand firmly by my statement. I TOTALLY AGREE! It's only in the last few decades that we've let animals share our homes and in some cases treat them better than humans (you seem to like to argue. Even with someone who's agreeing with you)
i wasnt arguing with you :) i was only saying im ready for the ridicule,
If there was tougher rules on owning a dog, even a simple question of "why do you need one" the majority of people would be refused ownership,no kids wold be getting mauled and there wouldnt be dog sh t when your walking to the shops,the rescue centres wouldnt be ramed to the rafters with strays and there would be no arguments because someones dog stole his picnic, :)
If we were just talking about "need" as opposed to "want" then none of us would have children, PS3's or 40" Plasma telly's.
I have four kids and have also owned loads of animals including Lab and Retriever varients. I trusted these as much as I would trust any other type of breed. However, would I leave my kids alone in a room with them? No. Never. This is a parents view.
You cannot 100% trust any animal with your children even if you know them and brought them up from puppies. Most parents know this and take responsible precautions as should all dog owners do the same. Unfortunately there are those that don't on both side of that equation. That's when kids end up in hospital and dogs being put down.
We can preach all day on this forum about how good we are either as parents or dog owners but there are many out there that are'nt.
wiltshire builders
23-01-12, 03:53 PM
Had a 2 blazing rows with dog walkers in Ashton Court.
The first one screamed "watch my dog" at me as I cyled past. Her dog was a good 100m away from her so I kindly explained ;) that the dog was her responsibility, not mine.
I'd say the blame was 65/35 in my favour as it was an open public park so I obviously should be careful about other people using it.
The second incident was absolutely mind boggling. I came barreling around a berm on the mountain bike course and came face to face with a jogger and her dog and narrowly avoided hitting it. The woman screamed and was clearly shaken up. I checked she was ok and apologised for frightening her then pointed out that she shouldn't be walking a dog here as it's a purpose built mountain bike course and could be dangerous.
The conversation that ensued puzzles me to this day.
Dog Lady: So you want me to get hit by a golf ball do you?
WB: Sorry?
DL: You want me to get hit by a golf ball? That's what'll happen if I walk on the golf course.
WB: Well no, but you're not allowed to walk a dog on a golf course either.
DL: So where the hell am I supposed to walk my dog then?
WB: I don't know and I don't care but you can't do it here, you'll get hurt.
DL: Stupid boys and their toys!
She then vanished out of my life as quickly as she'd apeared. :'(
For those of you that don't know, Ashton court is set in 850 acres of land. You'd think that we could all use it without coming to blows ::)
[quote author=Tina link=1327263661/10#10 date=1327270125]Im very sorry but as a mother I would not be happy if I come across a dog roaming free where any children are likely to be...no matter how soppy or soft they are......Connor had a bad experience with a friends dog and I am extremely careful about him around any dog
If another child attacked him, and he was frightened to go near other kids, would you insist that all other children should be on leads as well?
Well behaved, well trained dogs have just as much right to be off the lead as well behaved children. That said, I still wouldn't take rolo into a playground. But not becasue I was worried he would attack. But if we go to the beach, or to the country park/woods etc, it would be cruel to keep him leashed.
I won't say too much more on the subject, as it can be a contentious one from a worried parents pint of view, especially one that's not a dog owner, but you have to keep personal feelings aside and look at the big picture when making judgements. It's only natural for you to feel how you do if Connor had a bad experience. But I could show you clips online of children almost beating each other to death for fun and videoing it. Look at the Bulger killers....[/quot
Look at the bigger picture ???
I grew up with dogs and loved them dearly. But I would not have one now as I could not commit to the time and effort it takes to care for one...it would be unfair with our work hours.
All dogs are different as are children (to use the Bulger case is a bit extreme to be honest) Connor has a friend with the most loveable lab in the world and he likes going to play at their house, he loves Archie, but he would be scared ****less seeing a loose dog bounding around in an area that is meant for families and children.
There are places to take dogs without leads, there are places to take children (without leads hehe).....keep them separate and theres no problem !!!
Squashed_Fly
23-01-12, 05:03 PM
It really all boils down to my opening gambit - no bad dogs, just bad owners!
I'm typing this with a lovely warm labrador lying on my feet. He is a working dog - working as a hot water bottle!
wiltshire builders
23-01-12, 05:11 PM
It really all boils down to my opening gambit - no bad dogs, just bad owners!
I'm typing this with a lovely warm labrador lying on my feet. He is a working dog - working as a hot water bottle!
......as long as he doesn't leak ;D
I have a lovely black lab, I know without doubt that he would never hurt anyone, he is the most loving soul I've ever met. Not a nasty bone in his body. But he has been bitten three times in the past, twice by Russells and once by a Heinz 57
This is him trying to fit through my mates cat flap :-/
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/swannymx5/Catdog.jpg
This is what he is named after (posh name)
Vincent grey flash
http://www.motosolvang.com/images_new/large/1950_Vincent_TT_Gre_Flash.jpg
Real name is Dave
I had a beautiful dog for 14 years before sadly having him put to sleep due to a liver tumor 3 years ago :'(. He was very excitable as a puppy as all dogs are but you do have to look at the owners and how they train/keep/treat their dogs to start with. Why do people get dogs in the first place, most of us it’s for working or companionship but some low life’s in society see it as a status symbol…that’s where the problem starts for a lot of these cases imo.
We all know some breeds are just more aggressive than others as DD said but if you let a dog run riot at home then it will assume it can do the exact same in public, mistreat the dog or train it to be more aggressive then it will do the same in public, let the dog jump up and ‘lick’ everyone it comes into contact with at home then it will do it in public.
Dog’s are hunters, pack animals, that instinct will never leave them so you have to watch them like a hawk, regardless of how much you ‘know’ your dog or trust it. IMO you can never trust a dog 100% even if you have given it the best training in the world because they are pack animals at heart & have the potential to revert to that at any given time. If you put most pet dogs in a public place with lots of noise & people dashing around then yes they are going to think 'great stuff it's play time'. Most dogs will have hopefully been trained to deal with this & are very well behaved in public but some dogs unfortunately will see it as an opportunity to revert back to what comes naturally to them & you then have the possibility of them attacking. Dogs get excited when they are around people, they love the attention.
I trained my dog Monty how to behave & he was a delight to have around children, adults and other dogs. Not once did I have an issue with his behavior but then again I would always insist on him being on a lead if we were walking in a public play area/park or where there were lots of children for the kid’s safety & that of my own peace of mind. I would exercise him off the lead in the countryside or dedicated dog areas. As a responsible dog owner I accepted that was my job.
Alfie grew up knowing Monty from birth & I never had a problem with him being aggressive towards him but I would NEVER have left Monty and Alfie alone in the same room esp. when he was a baby/toddler. I loved my dog to bits but I never trusted him 100%. 99.9% yes but that deep seated knowledge that he was a pack animal who hunts never left me. Alfie would play with him but he was taught not to tease him, pull his ears, throw things at him and poke him. You have to teach children dogs are not toys, they need to respect them.
There are 2 sides to every story and in this case, the dog attacked the poor child without warning so yes action needs to be taken against the dog and it’s owner but unless there are even more laws on how you can obtain a dog in the first place and how people train/treat dogs then you will never stop these things from happening.
I was bitten by an Alsatian when I was about 8. Playing in the play park minding my own business and this dog attacked me from behind, took a huge chunk out of my thigh with no warning. My dad found the owner & the dog was put to sleep, not because my dad hates dogs, quite the opposite but he said because the dog had attacked without warning & for no reason then he couldn’t live with the thought that it could do it again to another child and the injury could be far worse then I had received. The dog had been taken to the park by the owner’s son and apparently it was not very good with other people/children so why on earth was the son permitted to take the dog to a play park in the first place?
All too often I see children teasing dogs and then crying when the dog snaps at them as a warning. Also children who would just walk up to any dog and pat it without asking the owner if it was ok or the knowledge of what the dog was like. Dogs can be fiercely protective of their family and if they are approached by a stranger no matter if they are a child or adult that instinct kicks in. He was fine with Monty but he is wary of other dogs because he doesn’t know them. You see kids screaming and running away when they see a dog half a mile away, well if most dogs hear and see that child running then of course they are going to think it’s either a game and they want to play or that hunting instinct kicks in again. Responsible owners should be able to halt the dog before this happens or the dog will be so well trained that it ignores the child but that risk is there. I taught Alfie that ALL dogs can be dangerous and that he should never approach one without me or the owners there and even then to be cautious of it.
Dogs get a bad press when things like this happen & I do feel sorry for all of them & the victims. Most are loving, soppy family pets that never hurt a fly but then something like this happens & people call for blood, it can be very unfair because they are not all bad. It’s just far too easy to get a dog and far too easy for some people to treat them badly or train them to be aggressive because they think it makes them look hard…very sad really.
I'm a dog lover through and through, give me a dog over a cat any day! But don’t get me started on cats & the way they are allowed to **** all over my garden and the owners are not responsible for clearing it up! >:(
My boy Monty RIP
http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww285/roxychick72/montyblaise.jpg
redken1
23-01-12, 08:03 PM
Just to clarify, the areas to which I referred to in my initial post are public places such as designated parks where children play; outside shopping malls (dogs are not allowed in most indoor malls anyway) and so on. I don’t think anyone is talking about open fields.
I’ve owned (not sure that’s the right term) four dogs and under no circumstances would I have taken any of them in to a public park unless on a lead. I have never had a problem in finding suitable open spaces to allow them to have a good run around. Perhaps I was over cautious, but despite the fact that my dogs were friendly and cuddly I could never be 100 per cent certain to how they would react in a noisy populated area.
As Chris rightly said, the vast majority of dog owners are responsible and to be honest, I don’t know what the answer is to bring the small minority of irresponsible ones in to line.
Rossio, I would suggest that one of the reasons many people choose to have a dog is probably for the same reason many of the hunting fraternity partake in their chosen pursuit – pleasure. Let’s not forget that there are thousands of lonely elderly people across the country who own dogs for companionship.
Posh_Jo
23-01-12, 08:22 PM
'I'm a dog lover through and through, give me a dog over a cat any day! But don’t get me started on cats & the way they are allowed to **** all over my garden and the owners are not responsible for clearing it up! >:( '
Now thats another topic all together!!!!!! Totally agree, we spend half our lives clearing up cat poo from our garden...drives us mad and we don't even own a cat, only a share in a lovely, cute, cuddley, soft, doopy, lick you to death cavalier king charles spaniel, that frightens himself when he barks (which isn't very often!!) ;D
Rossio, I would suggest that one of the reasons many people choose to have a dog is probably for the same reason many of the hunting fraternity partake in their chosen pursuit – pleasure. Let’s not forget that there are thousands of lonely elderly people across the country who own dogs for companionship.
I understand your point but...... does it not irritate when you drive through town and see labradors 3 feet wide and spaniels without a spring pointers with nothing to point at etc? as has been mentioned dogs are pack animals and natural hunters, and when used as such in a controlled enviroment there is no getting away from the fact that that when they are working they are 100% focused on the task in hand wether it be finding and flushing or retrieving, mine know who the leader of the pack is....me, and thats key to a dog control,every whistle is responded to instantly and thats the way it should be, although some my not agree with shooting/hunting and thats fine i have no issue with that as i probably dont like certain things they do...like kareoke ;D but if you've never seen a dog working i urge you to try and see it its an absolute pleasure to watch and the joy on their faces when they bring you the first right through to the last bird of the day for me is what keeping dogs is about, the same goes for "jack" my huntaway when he has penned the sheep or got the cows in he loves it for him thats his purpose in life and im sure he wouldnt be happy if he never had the oportunity do it everyday,
Right lets start on the cat subject ;D
Sad fact of the matter is.
A child would be safer on its own in a room with my lab than with a lot of people out there in this crazy world.
Dogs are not the enemy.
Cats are ;)
wiltshire builders
24-01-12, 02:32 PM
The cat subject has come up on here a few times before.
I dislike cats but I don't hate them. They are only doing what comes naturally to them.
I do however hate cat owners.
They are the most selfish people on the planet and have the strange need to own something but without the responsibilty.
I'm sure some of you are reading this and saying "not me, I'm responsible" yes you! It's just that you don't realise it. You get to play with it, have it sit on your lap and be all cute.
I'm the one who runs the mower through it's crap, gets woken up at 3am because you locked the catflap and has to see the birds i've watched hatch get ripped apart as they learn to fly.
You want something to cuddle, talk in a stupid voice to but not actually look after? Buy a doll!
Every so often one of the red tops runs a story about cats being poisoned in certain areas and people are baffled "why would someone do this? Who could be so cruel?"
The blame lies firmly with the owners.
So now we have gone full circle so to quote a wise man form Swindon "there are no bad 'cats', just bad owners.
Anyway, back to the dog thing.......
redken1
24-01-12, 06:23 PM
The cat subject has come up on here a few times before.
I dislike cats but I don't hate them. They are only doing what comes naturally to them.
I do however hate cat owners.
They are the most selfish people on the planet and have the strange need to own something but without the responsibilty.
I'm sure some of you are reading this and saying "not me, I'm responsible" yes you! It's just that you don't realise it. You get to play with it, have it sit on your lap and be all cute.
I'm the one who runs the mower through it's crap, gets woken up at 3am because you locked the catflap and has to see the birds i've watched hatch get ripped apart as they learn to fly.
You want something to cuddle, talk in a stupid voice to but not actually look after? Buy a doll!
Every so often one of the red tops runs a story about cats being poisoned in certain areas and people are baffled "why would someone do this? Who could be so cruel?"
The blame lies firmly with the owners.
So now we have gone full circle so to quote a wise man form Swindon "there are no bad 'cats', just bad owners.
Anyway, back to the dog thing.......
Dan, a hypothetical scenario for you to consider:
Just imagine that you fell head-over-heels for the girl of your dreams. You are lying next to her after consummating your relationship and she informs you that she owns a cat.
Would you tell her, ‘it was over’ because you don’t like her pussy?
:P :o ;D
As with everything that's wrong with the world, stupidity is the problem.
Stop stupid people from owning dogs, guns, cars, motorbikes, and most importantly, stop them from breeding and you'll find the world will soon become a very nice place.
redken1
24-01-12, 07:17 PM
As with everything that's wrong with the world, stupidity is the problem.
Stop stupid people from owning dogs, guns, cars, motorbikes, and most importantly, stop them from breeding and you'll find the world will soon become a very nice place.
Nooj, you failed to mention stupid owners of WMD's.
It appears former US president George Bush shares your take on stupid people: “It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber.” ;D
"Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the most stupid of them all?" ;)
Squashed_Fly
24-01-12, 07:24 PM
As with everything that's wrong with the world, stupidity is the problem.
Stop stupid people from owning dogs, guns, cars, motorbikes, and most importantly, stop them from breeding and you'll find the world will soon become a very nice place.
Nooj, it appears former US president George Bush shares your take on stupid people: “It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber.” ;D
"Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the most stupid of them all?" ;)
You are talking about the man who once said "The trouble with the French, is that they have no word for entrepeneur"....
redken1
24-01-12, 07:30 PM
And, "All our imports come from abroad." Bush is living proof that the working class don't have a monopoly on stupidity ;)
We could clog the forum with Bush gaffes. ;D
I have four cats...... :D
Squashed_Fly
24-01-12, 08:04 PM
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushquotes/a/dumbbushquotes.htm
Julie_S
24-01-12, 09:33 PM
Shouldn't need to be a law telling people to do this, it's good manners to keep you dog on a lead when people you don't know are around. There are too many laws in this country already. Parks are public spaces and everyone should be free to enjoy them, most dog owners are tax and rate payers.
There are bars around the playgrounds to keep the dogs out. isn't that enough for them? (joking...)
Funny isn't it, we have no problem legislating to force people to keep dogs under control but the same thing can't be done with out of control children. I'm culpable for the behaviour of my dog (which I should be) but if I had some skanking dope smoking 14 year old (I don't know how I've avoided this, living in Melksham) who terrorised the neighbours me and the child would be untouchable
Sorry if none of this makes any sense, been in the shelter in the park drinking White Lightning with my dog
I also have a cat/kitten .....hes so well trained that he will only use his litter tray to do his 'business' :P :P (and will ask to come in to go to the toilet !!)
Sadly, Wiltshire Builders, that now puts me on your 'hated' list.....But I hasten to add, I shall not be getting rid of my cat to be 'liked' be you hehehehe......how odd that you feel the need to dislike someone because of something they have in their life !! :o 8-) ;D :D
I dislike spiders and snakes but dont feel the need to 'hate' their owners because of it.
Have you forgotten the useless dog owners that allow their dogs to foul the footpaths and grass areas without picking it up?????? They do still exist...I should know !!! :P :P :P :P
Squashed_Fly
24-01-12, 09:58 PM
Ooooh, I love a good debate!
Life is such a wonderfully rich tapestry of colours....
Vee4 Gaz
24-01-12, 10:27 PM
It's horses that are the real problem........
I'll get my coat and suitcase and hopefully see you all again if not I might be found under the patio :) :) :)
wiltshire builders
24-01-12, 11:09 PM
The cat subject has come up on here a few times before.
I dislike cats but I don't hate them. They are only doing what comes naturally to them.
I do however hate cat owners.
They are the most selfish people on the planet and have the strange need to own something but without the responsibilty.
I'm sure some of you are reading this and saying "not me, I'm responsible" yes you! It's just that you don't realise it. You get to play with it, have it sit on your lap and be all cute.
I'm the one who runs the mower through it's crap, gets woken up at 3am because you locked the catflap and has to see the birds i've watched hatch get ripped apart as they learn to fly.
You want something to cuddle, talk in a stupid voice to but not actually look after? Buy a doll!
Every so often one of the red tops runs a story about cats being poisoned in certain areas and people are baffled "why would someone do this? Who could be so cruel?"
The blame lies firmly with the owners.
So now we have gone full circle so to quote a wise man form Swindon "there are no bad 'cats', just bad owners.
Anyway, back to the dog thing.......
Dan, a hypothetical scenario for you to consider:
Just imagine that you fell head-over-heels for the girl of your dreams. You are lying next to her after consummating your relationship and she informs you that she owns a cat.
Would you tell her, ‘it was over’ because you don’t like her pussy?
:P :o ;D
Been there Ken......Twice!
Q. I was told the other day when out walking my dog that it is now the law that my non-working dog must be on a lead when on a walk in the country.
A. Possibly...a little known law was introduced in 2010 in England so that such dogs must be on leads on "open access land" from 1st March to 31st July. "Open access land" is indicated on Ordnance Survey maps.
I found this this morning, maybe of interest to some.
House cats use litter trays and never go outside...that's fine if that's what you want from your pet but most cats grow up, stop using a litter tray and then go outside to **** all over the place.. :-?
Yes there are some awful dog owners who don't clear up after their dogs, I have an open line to council connect because I complain about it so much but the vast majority of responsible dog owners wouldn't dream of leaving dog mess in public...How many cat owners follow thier beloved felines around to clear up after their cats have defecated all over neighbours gardens?? :-?
This topic is a massive can of worms and we could all argue/debate and put forward our pros and cons for both sides........Love or hate dogs or cats, they both have bad things going for them. I just see the cat **** over my garden, in my flower borders and in my lawn mower when I miss it in the grass, it's foul and that's why I hate cats [smiley=laugh.gif] I don't own one, never want to and yet cat owners 'expect' me to clear up after them...if I owned a dog would I expect someone else to pick up my dog mess?? NO.
Did anyone see the programme on BBC1 last night about the West Mids Police’s Dangerous Dogs Team? Very interesting, interspersed with news footage and interviews with the family of a 4 year-old from Merseyside who died after being savaged by a pit bull-type dog – they were all very upset, yet none of them blamed themselves for allowing the dog anywhere near a small child. Plenty of (sob) “Oh he’d never done anything like that before” (sob, snivel) – do they need a warning FFS?
The remainder of the programme was dedicated to the DDS relieving various tattooed f*ckwits (© Billy Connolly) of their illegal “fighting breed” dogs.
I have a cat and have no idea of where he has a turnout – he has a catflap and comes and goes where and when he pleases. It’s not like I can follow him around at 3am is it? If he dumps on the neighbours’ lawns I’m very sorry about it, but short of keeping him indoors 24/7 there’s nothing I can do about it. At least most cats bury theirs, if it’s out in the open it’s normally associated with territory marking – dogs piss over everything in sight and how often do our WB dog-owning community apologise to anyone for that? At least they’re obliged to clear up after them nowadays, though some dog owners still see the streets and parks as a free latrine for their animal. If I find out the address of the owner who lets their dog crap on my front lawn now and then, they’ll get it back, probably through the post... >:( (and before anyone says “how do you know it’s not a cat?” – there aren’t any cats in our neighbourhood capable of passing turds that size!)
Mikkie1986
25-01-12, 01:00 PM
House cats use litter trays and never go outside...that's fine if that's what you want from your pet but most cats grow up, stop using a litter tray and then go outside to **** all over the place.. :-?
Yes there are some awful dog owners who don't clear up after their dogs, I have an open line to council connect because I complain about it so much but the vast majority of responsible dog owners wouldn't dream of leaving dog mess in public...How many cat owners follow thier beloved felines around to clear up after their cats have defecated all over neighbours gardens?? :-?
This topic is a massive can of worms and we could all argue/debate and put forward our pros and cons for both sides........Love or hate dogs or cats, they both have bad things going for them. I just see the cat **** over my garden, in my flower borders and in my lawn mower when I miss it in the grass, it's foul and that's why I hate cats [smiley=laugh.gif] I don't own one, never want to and yet cat owners 'expect' me to clear up after them...if I owned a dog would I expect someone else to pick up my dog mess?? NO.
If my Cat did a Doo Doo in your garden Rox, i know he would do the right thing and bury it. I have never seen another Cat bury there poo and believe my cat to be polite and considerate.
Cat Lover Mike ;)
House cats use litter trays and never go outside...that's fine if that's what you want from your pet but most cats grow up, stop using a litter tray and then go outside to **** all over the place.. :-?
Yes there are some awful dog owners who don't clear up after their dogs, I have an open line to council connect because I complain about it so much but the vast majority of responsible dog owners wouldn't dream of leaving dog mess in public...How many cat owners follow thier beloved felines around to clear up after their cats have defecated all over neighbours gardens?? :-?
This topic is a massive can of worms and we could all argue/debate and put forward our pros and cons for both sides........Love or hate dogs or cats, they both have bad things going for them. I just see the cat **** over my garden, in my flower borders and in my lawn mower when I miss it in the grass, it's foul and that's why I hate cats [smiley=laugh.gif] I don't own one, never want to and yet cat owners 'expect' me to clear up after them...if I owned a dog would I expect someone else to pick up my dog mess?? NO.
If my Cat did a Doo Doo in your garden Rox, i know he would do the right thing and bury it. I have never seen another Cat bury there thier poo and believe my cat to be polite and considerate.
Cat Lover Mike ;)
;D ;D cheers Mikkie ;D ;D The other thing that drives me mad is tom cat wee...that stinks!
Dog Lover Rox ;)
Mikkie1986
25-01-12, 01:11 PM
Yeah but Tom cats dont use a shovel!!
;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;) ;) ;)
Mikkie1986
25-01-12, 01:22 PM
>:( :( >:( Freddo now lost!
ah but the Wham bar has still got my name on it Rookie! ;) ;D ;D
Do you want to bet that Freddo we get told off and instructed to get back on topic! ;D
Roxy x
Mikkie1986
25-01-12, 01:29 PM
I dont like Topics... Prefer a Snickers... ;D
redken1
25-01-12, 07:24 PM
Did anyone see the programme on BBC1 last night about the West Mids Police’s Dangerous Dogs Team? Very interesting, interspersed with news footage and interviews with the family of a 4 year-old from Merseyside who died after being savaged by a pit bull-type dog – they were all very upset, yet none of them blamed themselves for allowing the dog anywhere near a small child. Plenty of (sob) “Oh he’d never done anything like that before” (sob, snivel) – do they need a warning FFS?
The remainder of the programme was dedicated to the DDS relieving various tattooed f*ckwits (© Billy Connolly) of their illegal “fighting breed” dogs.
I have a cat and have no idea of where he has a turnout – he has a catflap and comes and goes where and when he pleases. It’s not like I can follow him around at 3am is it? If he dumps on the neighbours’ lawns I’m very sorry about it, but short of keeping him indoors 24/7 there’s nothing I can do about it. At least most cats bury theirs, if it’s out in the open it’s normally associated with territory marking – dogs piss over everything in sight and how often do our WB dog-owning community apologise to anyone for that? At least they’re obliged to clear up after them nowadays, though some dog owners still see the streets and parks as a free latrine for their animal. If I find out the address of the owner who lets their dog crap on my front lawn now and then, they’ll get it back, probably through the post... >:( (and before anyone says “how do you know it’s not a cat?” – there aren’t any cats in our neighbourhood capable of passing turds that size!)
I’m no expert on the subject and didn’t know there was a difference between cat’s p*ss and Dog’s p*ss. :P ;D
I think it’s unfortunate that this thread appears to have turned in to a cat versus dog debate. As Roxy rightly said, there are pros and cons associated with both felines and canines. :-/ :)
Have to agree with you Ken re cats v dogs.
Pros: Dogs
Cons: Cats
G ;)
Lmao
What about the pets V humans question ??
Now that is a can of worms............don't you think hehe !!
Hmmm answers on a postcard (If you can fit the pro's and con's on one)
I shall leave that one open for debate
(and it is still on topic I do believe)
I dont like Topics... Prefer a Snickers... ;D
I prefer Marathons (Snickers) too!
- God that shows my age.
Squashed_Fly
25-01-12, 10:20 PM
Dogs are pets. They have an owner/master who is responsible for them, and can be insured against causing any damage.
Cats are classed as wild animals. You can't get them insured against public damage, and you can't be held liable for any damage that they cause. They have a provider, but not an owner/keeper.
I only found this out recently when I changed Rossi's & Rolo's insurance recently....
Was it Eddie Izzard who was credited with saying "dogs have owners, cats have staff"? Sums it up really... I provide him with food and shelter and a warm lap to occupy the moment I sit down anywhere. His previous staff said that he's not a lap-cat... Bollocks isn't he, never known one like it ::)
He keeps me amused though, but he don't take no ****, no way - ask Basil... ;D ;D ;D
Mikkie1986
26-01-12, 09:07 AM
Iam a member of staff.... Dont staff get paid.....
So let me get this right i am actually a slave to my Cats....
Thought so...
That was a close one, thought id been missing wages.... :P
Was it Eddie Izzard who was credited with saying "dogs have owners, cats have staff"? Sums it up really... I provide him with food and shelter and a warm lap to occupy the moment I sit down anywhere. His previous staff said that he's not a lap-cat... Bollocks isn't he, never known one like it ::)
He keeps me amused though, but he don't take no ****, no way - ask Basil... ;D ;D ;D
I have to agree. :o
Em and I have two Cats, they own the house, we just keep them fed and amused. They have very different personallities, one of them is quite devoted, sits on your lap, comes when called wants attention. The other..... does at it pleases.... and lets you know when it is not amused.
Great animals!!!
wiltshire builders
26-01-12, 01:34 PM
how odd that you feel the need to dislike someone because of something they have in their life !! :o 8-) ;D :D
I dislike spiders and snakes but dont feel the need to 'hate' their owners because of it.
Have you forgotten the useless dog owners that allow their dogs to foul the footpaths and grass areas without picking it up?????? They do still exist...I should know !!! :P :P :P :P
If your neighbour allowed their snake to go where it pleased and it ate your cat and took a dump on your lawn, you would be entitled to be pissed off. It's no different.
It's all about being responsible for your pets and respecting other people around you.
To a cat owner it's inconceivable that somebody would have a problem with a cat, and that's my point.
If you like something that's fine, but why should everyone else have to suffer as a result.
I know I said I hate cat people, but there's always an exception to the rule ;)
Squashed_Fly
26-01-12, 02:15 PM
To a cat owner it's inconceivable that somebody would have a problem with a cat, and that's my point.
The reason it's inconceivable, is because we're not responsible for what they do. No more than we are responsible if a wild bird craps on your windscreen. As wild animals, they do what, and go where they like. They don't need us to feed them, if they go off on their own, they will catch their own food and find their own water.
Dogs however (in the main), are completely useless without humans to tell them what to do and to look after them.
wiltshire builders
26-01-12, 05:16 PM
To a cat owner it's inconceivable that somebody would have a problem with a cat, and that's my point.
The reason it's inconceivable, is because we're not responsible for what they do. No more than we are responsible if a wild bird craps on your windscreen. As wild animals, they do what, and go where they like. They don't need us to feed them, if they go off on their own, they will catch their own food and find their own water.
Dogs however (in the main), are completely useless without humans to tell them what to do and to look after them.
So humans invented dogs then? I think you'll find that a dog would quickly turn feral if it had no food supply. Nature vs nuture. Nature always wins!
redken1
26-01-12, 07:59 PM
Dogs are pets. They have an owner/master who is responsible for them, and can be insured against causing any damage.
Cats are classed as wild animals. You can't get them insured against public damage, and you can't be held liable for any damage that they cause. They have a provider, but not an owner/keeper.
I only found this out recently when I changed Rossi's & Rolo's insurance recently....
Animal Welfare Act 2006
This Act is aimed at preventing cruelty, and promoting and ensuring
the welfare of animals.
The Act applies to both domestic and feral cats. In addition to
cruelty offences, the Act places an obligation on owners and those
responsible for cats (eg cattery owners) to ensure that the welfare
needs of their cats are met. These include the need:
for a suitable environment (place to live)
•
for a suitable diet
•
to exhibit normal behaviour patterns
•
to be housed with, or apart from, other animals
•
to be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease
•
The penalties for committing an offence of cruelty, or for failing to
provide for an animal’s welfare needs, include a ban from owning
animals, a fine of up to £20,000 or, in some cases, a six-month
prison sentence.
The Act also increases the minimum age at which anyone can buy an
animal to 16.
Theft Act 1968
Cats are regarded in law as the ‘property’ of their owner. The theft
of a cat is treated as an offence under the Act in the same way as
theft of any other property.
A cat that is lost or has strayed is generally regarded as the property
of the original owner. It is therefore necessary to make all reasonable
endeavours to locate the original owner whenever possible.
Criminal Damage Act 1971
Because the law regards cats as property, an offence may be
committed under this Act if a person, without lawful excuse, kills or
injures a cat belonging to another person.
Animal Act 1971 and the Common Law Duty of Care
The law in these respects
recognises that, by their nature, cats are less likely than some other
animals to cause injury to people or damage to property.
However, cat owners do have a general duty at law to take
reasonable care to ensure that their cats do not cause injury to
people or damage to property. In practice, cases involving damage
to property or injury to people by cats are few and far between.
Planning and Environmental Law
Environmental Health Departments have powers under
the Environmental Protection Act, 1990 in respect of nuisance or
hazards (eg fouling, smell and noise) caused as a result of too many
cats being kept at a single property.
how odd that you feel the need to dislike someone because of something they have in their life !! :o 8-) ;D :D
I dislike spiders and snakes but dont feel the need to 'hate' their owners because of it.
Have you forgotten the useless dog owners that allow their dogs to foul the footpaths and grass areas without picking it up?????? They do still exist...I should know !!! :P :P :P :P
If your neighbour allowed their snake to go where it pleased and it ate your cat and took a dump on your lawn, you would be entitled to be pissed off. It's no different.
It's all about being responsible for your pets and respecting other people around you.
To a cat owner it's inconceivable that somebody would have a problem with a cat, and that's my point.
If you like something that's fine, but why should everyone else have to suffer as a result.
I know I said I hate cat people, but there's always an exception to the rule ;)
hehehe....cool.....do you know what??
No matter how much we defend our own pets someone, somewhere wont like them....bit like children and adults I guess.... everyone is different and surely we should accept another's choices and respect them....I believe its called diversity hehe
But I still think there should be marked areas for unleashed dogs just like there are marked areas for loose children ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
redken1
26-01-12, 08:19 PM
Tina, a huge chunk of the 97.5 per cent of non-bike road users don't have alot of time for the other 2.5 per cent - US. I say "Tough Sh*t" ;D ;)
We are becoming so over populated (”Britain's population could soar to 90million over the next 50 years.”) on this little island that general tolerance levels have suffered as a result. :(
Save that one for another day. ::)
Squashed_Fly
26-01-12, 08:34 PM
Dogs are pets. They have an owner/master who is responsible for them, and can be insured against causing any damage.
Cats are classed as wild animals. You can't get them insured against public damage, and you can't be held liable for any damage that they cause. They have a provider, but not an owner/keeper.
I only found this out recently when I changed Rossi's & Rolo's insurance recently....
Animal Welfare Act 2006
This Act is aimed at preventing cruelty, and promoting and ensuring
the welfare of animals.
The Act applies to both domestic and feral cats. In addition to
cruelty offences, the Act places an obligation on owners and those
responsible for cats (eg cattery owners) to ensure that the welfare
needs of their cats are met. These include the need:
for a suitable environment (place to live)
•
for a suitable diet
•
to exhibit normal behaviour patterns
•
to be housed with, or apart from, other animals
•
to be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease
•
The penalties for committing an offence of cruelty, or for failing to
provide for an animal’s welfare needs, include a ban from owning
animals, a fine of up to £20,000 or, in some cases, a six-month
prison sentence.
The Act also increases the minimum age at which anyone can buy an
animal to 16.
Theft Act 1968
Cats are regarded in law as the ‘property’ of their owner. The theft
of a cat is treated as an offence under the Act in the same way as
theft of any other property.
A cat that is lost or has strayed is generally regarded as the property
of the original owner. It is therefore necessary to make all reasonable
endeavours to locate the original owner whenever possible.
Criminal Damage Act 1971
Because the law regards cats as property, an offence may be
committed under this Act if a person, without lawful excuse, kills or
injures a cat belonging to another person.
Animal Act 1971 and the Common Law Duty of Care
The law in these respects
recognises that, by their nature, cats are less likely than some other
animals to cause injury to people or damage to property.
However, cat owners do have a general duty at law to take
reasonable care to ensure that their cats do not cause injury to
people or damage to property. In practice, cases involving damage
to property or injury to people by cats are few and far between.
Planning and Environmental Law
Environmental Health Departments have powers under
the Environmental Protection Act, 1990 in respect of nuisance or
hazards (eg fouling, smell and noise) caused as a result of too many
cats being kept at a single property.
Hmmm, interesting. That contradicts what the insurance people & the vets told me. I might go back to the insurers and quote that to see if they will give us the same cover as the dog. Thanks ken
redken1
26-01-12, 08:36 PM
Businesses Aidan - I'll say no more :-X
Out of interest aiden how much is it to insure your lab?
Squashed_Fly
27-01-12, 08:38 AM
Think we pay about £16 a month. It's already been worth it - he picked up Giardia (a parasite infection) as a pup that would have cost us over £1000 if he wasn't insured. After seeing how much our king charles would have cost when I was growing up if they weren't insured, I always keep the animals insured now. The cat is insured for vets probs, but no public liability.
Pure bred dogs often have problems when they get older, as sadly, there are a lot of unscrupulous breeders out there, who over many centuries have inbred their dogs. Especially when you see these horrible little yappy miniature things. That's why the King Charles almost all suffer with heart problems when they get older. These issues are now prominent in the whole breed, regardless of how good your perticular breeder is. Labs often get hip dysplacia which is why they have to be hip scored before they can breed (if you want them kennel club registered).
Rolo is 5th gen pedigree, which means we have his complete family tree going back 5 generations so we can see there has been no family breeding in that time, and means his hips are fine.
DaytonaDog
27-01-12, 02:03 PM
Out of interest aiden how much is it to insure your lab?
I pay about 18 pounds to insure my Lab with Virgin Pet Insurance, however I have taken out their most expensive package so there are cheaper options out there but you don't get as much cover. I'm not going to be a tightwad when it comes to the health and well being of my hound.
I have probably already claimed back more than what I have paid due to Archie having to have an lump removed from his back leg. An operation that cost over 600 pounds. Apart from the 80 pound excess Virgin paid up in full with no probs whatsoever.
Squashed_Fly
27-01-12, 02:33 PM
Out of interest aiden how much is it to insure your lab?
I pay about 18 pounds to insure my Lab with Virgin Pet Insurance, however I have taken out their most expensive package so there are cheaper options out there but you don't get as much cover. I'm not going to be a tightwad when it comes to the health and well being of my hound.
I have probably already claimed back more than what I have paid due to Archie having to have an lump removed from his back leg. An operation that cost over 600 pounds. Apart from the 80 pound excess Virgin paid up in full with no probs whatsoever.
Ditto. The cheaper options tend not to cover continuing conditions.
You boys got it easy! for my spaniels its 49 each a month and the huntaway is 47 a month, and as dd says iv got my money worth out of them too, The spanels pay for themselfs from oct to feb tho so all is good,
You cant get caught up on a 5th gen paperwork tho, any paperwork for that matter, a good example well i know of quite a few actually, regardless of hip and shoulder scores and eye scores etc and they can and prob will still get problems, my boss has a golden retriver,5th gen and 1000 pound purchase price,she is 1 year old and already shows the signs as do a couple of the labs on the shoots at various places,
Another good one is rage syndrome in spaniels, but funnily enough its prodominent in the "show" lines, the dog switches of and who ever is closes is in big trouble, it is fairly rare but its only there because of a quest for perfection, pretty shallow really, There is something to be said for non pedigree dogs tho, The huntaway is effectivley a mogral, the breed was "made" many many moons ago and the only time hes broked down is when he was too slow to dodge a bulls back foot, but actual health wise nothing.
I must say iv enjoyed this thread, thanks WB's
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