Police "Kettle" Westminster

[redken1]

30,000 police officers marched in London today as their anger over pension reforms boiled over.

[goz1960]

And your point is???????????

[Toph]

What's a pension?? :-?

[redken1]

And your point is???????????

Do I have to make a point? :-?

[Toph]

Ah yes! I've just googled "pension".. apparently it's a regular payment paid to public sector workers after the age of 60 to 65 , subsidised by the taxpayer, so that they can stop work and still be paid a wage.

This is not applicable to private sector workers, they just have to work until they die and keep paying taxes to subsidise the above.

[redken1]

Ah yes! I've just googled "pension".. apparently it's a regular payment paid to public sector workers after the age of 60 to 65 , subsidised by the taxpayer, so that they can stop work and still be paid a wage.

This is not applicable to private sector workers, they just have to work until they die and keep paying taxes to subsidise the above.




Despite the fact that you signed an employment contract, your employer advises you that he/she intends to enforce a significant reduction in your remuneration package.

Would you take that on the chin without a protest Chris?

[Toph]

What's a contract Ken?? I signed a contract with a mortgage company to buy my house 24 years ago, when they sold me the policy, they told me it would pay off my mortgage and have enough left over for a new car and a holiday.

What a load of bollocks that was... and on and on... 20 years ago my boss signed a contract and took out a final salary pension scheme... 5 years ago the pension company said it couldn't any longer afford the scheme and refunded his premiums without interest and closed the scheme.
Although I sympathise with the police and public sector workers, as a private sector worker, I would swap my pension with any one of them.. I would love to retire at 65 with a living wage pension.

but it aint going to happen.

I think every working person is entitled to a decent pension, after a lifetime of paying taxes.

It's just that I find it a little unfair that I (through my taxes) subsidise the pension of a public sector worker, but as a private sector worker, my pension is not subsidised.
I pay the same taxes... I don't get the same benefits...where's the fairness in that???

[redken1]

Chris, I appreciate what you are saying, but I look at it in a different way. If we want to attract the right people to professions like teaching and the police service then we need to reward them fairly.

More and more public sector workers are opting out of the pension schemes because their contributions are too high. It’s a false economy as the taxpayer will have to foot the bill for the benefits they will be entitled to when they reach retirement age. Council tax rebates, housing benefit, etc

Like you, I have no provision in place for my retirement. I agree wholeheartedly that every hard working person should receive a pension which enables them to enjoy a decent standard of living when they retire. Stripping away the pensions of those who already have them in place is a step backwards.

[Swanny]

Pensions are so 20th century ;)

The way things are going does anyone here really believe pensions will still be around in ten years time??? :-?

[Mitch9128]

The government love this, playing the private sector off against the public sector.

Swanny, this isn't about the state pension, it's about pensions awarded to certain professions.

The government is ripping up pay and conditions contracts for some jobs, even though these poorly paid people are not responsible for the current economic sh1t.

[Mitch9128]

I did laugh though at the news last night, we should have got students to kettle the coppers ;)

[Swanny]

I wonder if there was any police brutality against the protesters?? ;)

[Crosbie]

Stripping away the pensions of those who already have them in place is a step backwards.


Not if they do Jack in their current job role. I don’t agree that just because you work in the public sector you should be entitled to a pension scheme funded by the tax payer. If you are providing a good and valuable service to the public then yes I have no problem with my taxes going towards a pension for them. I think we all know for a fact there are more than a small minority out there working in the public sector getting a gold plated pension for doing next to nothing, doing what they do incompetently and incorrectly and whilst being rude in some cases (I know this first hand from dealing with my local council on more than one occasion and also working alongside other councils up and down the country). These are the people that have no right to complain or protest about their pensions being cut. :o

[Snowy]

Stripping away the pensions of those who already have them in place is a step backwards.


Not if they do Jack in their current job role. I don’t agree that just because you work in the public sector you should be entitled to a pension scheme funded by the tax payer. If you are providing a good and valuable service to the public then yes I have no problem with my taxes going towards a pension for them. I think we all know for a fact there are more than a small minority out there working in the public sector getting a gold plated pension for doing next to nothing, doing what they do incompetently and incorrectly and whilst being rude in some cases (I know this first hand from dealing with my local council on more than one occasion and also working alongside other councils up and down the country). These are the people that have no right to complain or protest about their pensions being cut. :o

Can you tell me what the difference is between a private contributory pension scheme (where the employer and employee pays a percentage of salary into the pension fund) and a local govt contributory pension scheme (where the employer and employee pays a percentage of salary into the pension fund).

I would like to know as I have both types myself and I'm struggling to understand why you think I shouldn't have access to a contributable pension scheme just like anyone else.

[Kevinb]

I watched it last night and it made me so angry. The public sector think it is their god given right to have a final salary pension paid for by people like me who have had to take a pay cut over the last few years and seen their final salary pension schemes frozen.
Stop complaining you are hard done by and be thankful you have a job

[Mitch9128]

Kevin, when they joined their 'jobs' these pensions were in their contracts, if i had gone into the public sector and i did for a while in the Army, and then had it withdrawn, even though it was laid down at the start, i'd be mightily p1ssed off. They have had pay cuts, pay freezes and mostly poor pay from the start, the pension being the only attractive remuneration. The tories have done a good job on you, we should all be standing together for our rights, not bailing out bankers and the rich, then turning on each other.

[Dan505]

damn straight Mitch! its what they want is us playing off against each other whilst they still pocket ridiculous salaries for very little visable return in work load

[Crosbie]

Stripping away the pensions of those who already have them in place is a step backwards.


Not if they do Jack in their current job role. I don’t agree that just because you work in the public sector you should be entitled to a pension scheme funded by the tax payer. If you are providing a good and valuable service to the public then yes I have no problem with my taxes going towards a pension for them. I think we all know for a fact there are more than a small minority out there working in the public sector getting a gold plated pension for doing next to nothing, doing what they do incompetently and incorrectly and whilst being rude in some cases (I know this first hand from dealing with my local council on more than one occasion and also working alongside other councils up and down the country). These are the people that have no right to complain or protest about their pensions being cut. :o

Can you tell me what the difference is between a private contributory pension scheme (where the employer and employee pays a percentage of salary into the pension fund) and a local govt contributory pension scheme (where the employer and employee pays a percentage of salary into the pension fund).

I would like to know as I have both types myself and I'm struggling to understand why you think I shouldn't have access to a contributable pension scheme just like anyone else.
The difference which gripes my goat is that the taxes that every working person pays goes towards a bill somewhere in the region of £33bn to cover contributions/topups to public pensions. Like i said above - thats fine as long as the job that was done by the person recieving said pension was one to benefit the public in a real and true way, and that they actually did do the job to their full and best ability - which again, as i said before there is more than just a minority out there not doing and freeloading at the expense of taxpayers.

[Snowy]

Stripping away the pensions of those who already have them in place is a step backwards.


Not if they do Jack in their current job role. I don’t agree that just because you work in the public sector you should be entitled to a pension scheme funded by the tax payer. If you are providing a good and valuable service to the public then yes I have no problem with my taxes going towards a pension for them. I think we all know for a fact there are more than a small minority out there working in the public sector getting a gold plated pension for doing next to nothing, doing what they do incompetently and incorrectly and whilst being rude in some cases (I know this first hand from dealing with my local council on more than one occasion and also working alongside other councils up and down the country). These are the people that have no right to complain or protest about their pensions being cut. :o

Can you tell me what the difference is between a private contributory pension scheme (where the employer and employee pays a percentage of salary into the pension fund) and a local govt contributory pension scheme (where the employer and employee pays a percentage of salary into the pension fund).

I would like to know as I have both types myself and I'm struggling to understand why you think I shouldn't have access to a contributable pension scheme just like anyone else.
The difference which gripes my goat is that the taxes that every working person pays goes towards a bill somewhere in the region of £33bn to cover contributions/topups to public pensions. Like i said above - thats fine as long as the job that was done by the person recieving said pension was one to benefit the public in a real and true way, and that they actually did do the job to their full and best ability - which again, as i said before there is more than just a minority out there not doing and freeloading at the expense of taxpayers.

I would'nt necessarily disagree with that, but I would argue that the exact same thing is true in the private sector. The difference is that much more is transparent and open to public debate when discussing pay and conditions in the public sector than it is in private business. In my experience there's more shady dealings going on in private business than in the public sector.

[redken1]

In 2007-08, when public-sector pensions had a net cost to the taxpayer of £4 billion, private-sector pension relief cost the taxpayer £37.6 billion.

Financial year ending April 2011, RBS Chief Executive Stephen Hester collected £420,000 (Who paid that?) worth of pension contributions because he is not part of the bank’s pension scheme.

Just one example of many.

[goz1960]

When I joined the prison service part of the package was my pension as the pay was nothing special. I have now gone three years without a pay rise and have this year had to pay an extra £90.00 per month pension and a further increase of £90.00 per month next year. So over a period of 5 years may monthly pay will of decreased by £180.00. And to top it all off when I retire my pension will be nothing like what I was told at the start, and this was part of my contract of employment.

[Col]

The value of investments can go down as well as up :)

From what info I been fed it seems that public sector have ,as NHS, up to £6 for each £1 paid in whereas private are given the tax relief then left to the vagaries of the 'markets' which I think is highlighting the probs of 'gold plated state funded'

I like cream cakes ---anyone else :D

[Blackandchrome]

Nah!
Don't like cream cakes. :(
Got a great pension though ;)

[Swanny]

Hope you retire before they steal it ;)

[Col]

Nah!
Don't like cream cakes. :(
Got a great pension though ;)

:o :o : unbelievable

back on topic- wish my pension was but sadly the markets are shoite so pension is shoite.
Trouble with some of us we have worked for 'small firms' so fook all employer contributions and any pension provision has to be self funded in addition to being subject to increasing taxation to fund the state payroll---this is where there is contention between state and private.

It is utter lunacy to expect me and others to stagger on working when already signs of wear and tear are appearing simply to have money taken to fund state workers who have retired some as young as 50 or so and then get another job and another pension fund ::)
--ok ok wrong career choice but these disparities were never evident years ago and something has to be done as not enough money anyway

Wonder if actually taking a more 'hands on' approach and have a SIPP is better now :-?

A rule of thumb used to be put 10% of income away for pension but don't think that is enough these days ::)

cannot believe Tractordriver don't like cream cakes :P