New Minimum wage £0.00?

[redken1]

Is there any truth in the rumour that Polish migrant workers support the government’s proposal to force unemployed job seekers to take-up unpaid work as a condition of eligibility for state benefits? :P

Implementation of such a measure is bound to alleviate the hostility directed at our fellow Europeans because we will have someone else to blame for under-cutting (forcing-down) wage rates. ;)

[Swanny]

Divide and conquer

[camera.op76]

Divide and conquer

About time we got the hump about it?!

[NoYou]

technical it wouldn't be unpaid,they get a houseand benefits out of it... sounds good to me! get them relaying all the roads... along with people in prison

[Mitch9128]

See, G3o, that wouldn't be a bad idea, IF, road surfacing was state owned, and no-one was making a profit. They're not though, so someone would be making an even greater profit, as the staff were being supplied for free. A fair days wage for a fair days work is the very least people are entitled to.

[pilninggas]

Maybe look at the whole thing in context. Many[most] people on benefits are also on housing benefits. They may be in receipt of additional monies. This is significantly more than the raw benefit/fortnight figure that the grauniad loves-to-hate.

A chance to have a life with a sense of purpose and structured day won't do anyone any harm. Perhaps the way to look at it, is that those in who get benefits can repay some of societies investment in them.

Funny how ensuring those who are supported by society (for whatever reason) give a little back, causes all of the lefties to throw a wobbler. ::)

[Mitch9128]

Funny how the righties, always call everyone else lefties!!! Like there's no other way.

[redken1]

Maybe look at the whole thing in context. Many[most] people on benefits are also on housing benefits. They may be in receipt of additional monies. This is significantly more than the raw benefit/fortnight figure that the grauniad loves-to-hate.

A chance to have a life with a sense of purpose and structured day won't do anyone any harm. Perhaps the way to look at it, is that those in who get benefits can repay some of societies investment in them.

Funny how ensuring those who are supported by society (for whatever reason) give a little back, causes all of the lefties to throw a wobbler. ::)


Hi Merv, not heard from you for a while – hope you are well.

Of course I am opposed to this proposal due to my ideological beliefs, but let me put them on the back-burner for a moment and look at it in the whole context.

Before I do, allow me to challenge the misinformation about housing benefit. Whether its £50 or £150 per week paid out in housing benefit, the claimant does not receive a single penny as the entire amount is collected by the landlord for rent. In most cases, very wealthy landlords who own numerous properties.

The “Mandatory Work Activity Scheme”, which the government intends to extend, involves a jobseeker being forced to take a placement and work for a business which the taxpayer pays to provide work experience. There is no requirement for the owners of the businesses participating in the scheme to provide the jobseeker with training or offer them full time employment at the end of what could be a six month placement. The Business pays the jobseeker a minimum wage amounting to £00.00

These businesses must be falling over themselves to contribute to the Tory party coffers – getting paid to exploit workers with out any of the hassle of making them redundant when the time comes, while 'muggins', the taxpayer picks up the tab.

I wish the right-wing media would stop flagging-up this policy as a saving for the taxpayer because we are still paying the same in state benefits and paying more to subsidise the businesses involved.

On the face of it the scheme looks like utter madness, but not if it is designed to deliver two goals. Force down wages by scrapping the legal requirement for employers to pay the minimum wage, and manipulate the unemployment figures to push your ratings up the vote-ometer.

Hmmm got an idea – ‘Glass Finish Decorators’ could create jobs, expand and take on five more painters – Can’t afford to pay anyone – I know, I’ll sign up to the “Mandatory Work Activity Scheme.” And what a bonus, the taxpayer will pay for my winter hack I ain't been able to afford. Sorted! :P

[Rabb]

+1 Ken

I do not consider myself a 'leftie' or a 'liberal' for that matter.
You are right Ken - employers will use the system to their best advantage with no need to train or employ (or even pay!!!) - it's typical of the usual Tory dogma of supporting the top 10 % in the hope that these entrepreneurs will risk their money in business - in my experience these individuals screw the system for as much as they can; and then walk away with the cash.
I could go on - but I will only wind myself up!

[Col]

Isn't this more to do with time spent on work usually voluntarily done like helping out an elderly persons garden Ken ?

Personally I'd like to see 'em all picking up the disgusting amounts of litter that is strewn around our roads and countryside which seems to be getting worse and worse...there are some filthy lazy fookeers about!! On road to work now I actually stop and hold up bloody traffic while I pick up tins ffs!!! easily cause punctures or harm horses/animals---majorly ****ed off with it in fact >:(

Uber controversial :-? but the reality is that there are too many people and the creation of 'non-jobs' only adds to costs [tax]--the point of population numbers highlighted by the recent water shortages--I've said it before and some are finally starting to accept the blindingly obvious :)

Anyways jolly nice weather what ??? :D

[redken1]

Col, under the current system, the UK needs to budget for probably 4 million unemployed, That could rise to possibly 6 depending on how the Greeks vote tomorrow. :-X ;)

This is an average figure through a whole 'Boom & Bust' cycle.

All grey clouds on the economic front I'm afraid, but fingers crossed, sunny biking days on the horizon. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] 8-)

[Ducatista]

there are some filthy lazy fookeers about!!

There always have been as well as genuine benefit claimants.
But we are all aware that right now there are not loads of jobs about and even those that are trying really hard can't get work.

This kind of thing is designed to set us against each other as as Swanny said in post #2 in the hope that if we are all focused on the lazy fookeeers you mentioned, we won't be scrutinizing the government, bank of England, bankers and payrises of CEOs.

It's a bit ironic to focus on the lazy when there are so few real jobs about.

BTW - only about 40% of those on benefits are available for work. The rest are not available through sickness and disability or are not available due to caring commitments.

[Col]

@Ducatista I was moaning about the filthy lazy fookeers ,probably mainly employed, that think throwing their rubbish around the countryside is acceptable ---it ain't !!

and suggested that perhaps instead of doing tiddly swat some unemployed kids who have never done a stroke should be encouraged to clear it up as it is too large a task for councils to keep on top of.

Accepted there will be reasons put forward why this suggestion would not be possible- it wouldn't happen anyway being the main one :P

Am I the only one utterly disgusted with all the crap and rubbish littering the land :-?

6 million Ken :o

[Nelly]

Not sure about that but i was just talking to my daughter who was telling me that the MD of her company is currently paying some workers £2 per hour!

[Ducatista]

I agree with everything you have said Col
However I still think it's a diversionary tactic.

[redken1]

People tend to yawn when I harp on about youth unemployment, but this is a real ticking time bomb in the UK.

The number of young people unemployed for more than a year has increased almost nine-fold over the past decade, according to a new study.


The TUC said the number of 18 to 24-year-olds out of work had soared by 874%, from 6,260 to 60,955 since 2000, going up by 264% in the last year alone. :o

Instead of making general simplistic judgements and demonising our youngsters, we should remember that they are not to blame for our current economic predicament.

[Col]

How many 18-24 yr olds are there Ken? Your % figures look a lot but in the great scheme of things what does 60k actually mean ?

Is it somat like 2.4 million unemployed ?? so 60k is c.2.5%

Unfortunate if you're one work seeking but I don't actually see 2.5% being that huge a problem maybe 480000 or 20% would be a cause for concern

[redken1]

How many 18-24 yr olds are there Ken? Your % figures look a lot but in the great scheme of things what does 60k actually mean ?

Is it somat like 2.4 million unemployed ?? so 60k is c.2.5%

Unfortunate if you're one work seeking but I don't actually see 2.5% being that huge a problem maybe 480000 or 20% would be a cause for concern

Col, the figures the TUC are talking about represent the long-term unemployed (over 12 months).

Bear in mind my original post - like Trainees, placements won't show-up on the unemployment figures.

Col, Today's report.

The inactivity rate is now over 21 per cent of the working age population and the total is the highest since records began in 1971.

Youth unemployment also continued to rise, with the number of 16 to 24-year-olds up by 15,000 to 943,000, giving a rate of 19.8 per cent, a record high.

The number of 18 to 24-year-olds out of work rose by 24,000 over the three months to 746,000, a rate of 18 per cent, the highest since 1992.

[Swanny]

Quite simple, kick out all the immigrants that don't need to be here and especially those that have come here just to claim benefits and there will be enough jobs for the young British that need a job.

Oh hang on I'm not allowed to say that it's not PC :-X

[Mitch9128]

"especially those that have come here just to claim benefits and there will be enough jobs for the young British that need a job."

So if they are here to claim benefits, how will them leaving free up a job?


It is a fact that a lot of the starter sh1t jobs are taken up by immigrants, but it's also a fact that none of our lovely yoof want to do these low paid jobs either.

[Swanny]

They still work as well as claiming benefits

[Swanny]

It is a fact that a lot of the starter sh1t jobs are taken up by immigrants, but it's also a fact that none of our lovely yoof want to do these low paid jobs either.



Blame the parents for not making their lovely little angels get out of bed and find a job. Life's too easy for them at home, mummy and daddy look after their every need. They can just get up at whenever o'clock and play on the xbox for as long as they like, food is provided on demand and no form of payment is required ;D

[redken1]

Oh how we love to stereotype and generalise. Is it any wonder that so many of our youngsters feel disenfranchised?

“British jobs for British workers” ???

Not as long as we remain a member state of the EU.

[cornishbob]

i thought the general thought was that the yoof of today are ill educated and of dubious work ethic.

i was a suprvisor in a steel foundry that used agency workers. how many times have i had to tell some kid to f**k off out of it because he was useless.they seemed more interested in ipods and texting.

that is why they have had bad press...because they deserve bad press.

i certainly wouldnt want to work beside some piece of filth.
why should i?

[Swanny]

I had a 17 year old kid working for me once, at the start of the day I had to take his mobile off of him otherwise he would feck around on that instead of working.
In my experience the yoof of today seem to have no common sense at all, god only knows what will happen to them in the future :-/

[cornishbob]

i wouldnt trust the majority of them to wash lettuce at macdonalds.

even if jobs were availible they would be incapable of doing them.

so to those who would say give them jobs i would say what jobs?

they are nothing, will never be anything.
it is people like that that are dragging this country down
superfluous to requirements and to be removed from society.

[redken1]

Very disheartening to see contributors on this thread appear to write-off our entire younger generation, tarring them all with the same brush, in a not too dissimilar a way that some within the anti-biking lobby view bikers. :o: :(

I’m sure the 24,000 18 to 24-year-olds who lost their jobs in the last three months will be feeling really low. Just hope they don’t visit this thread looking for inspiration or motivation.

[cornishbob]

a very (supposedly) important person once said to me..

"you're either part of the problem or part of the solution"

burying your head and pretending there isnt a problem is only letting it run.why not say yes there is a problem and lets do something about it.

the lumpensproletariat are easy to identify.deal with them and the problem will be solved.obviously it would need to be extended to society as a whole but it would be going in the right direction.

society as it is wants the weak to be protected but on the other hand they (we) are to be screwed into the ground.trouble is it is a circle that cannot be squared... a 'they're going to screw me so iam going to screw you' society.
so it gives the ones skimming along at the bottom no incentive to do anything but whinge about the predicament they find themselves in and squeal that no one helps them.

get up and help yourselves or you cant stand the heat...

[Swanny]

Bad parenting and bad schooling are to blame

[redken1]

So it’s not just all the youngsters that have failed, but their parents and our schools too? :-X

[cornishbob]

Swanny you are so right.
the problem has been simmering for a generation or so.
as far as i am concerned thatcherism is to blame.
in empowering people (allegedly) an air of belief inentitlement was created without the backup to fulfill that belief.the failure to get across that you have to put something in to get something out is where it all went wrong.

but thats politics...tell them what they want to hear and make promises that can never be a reality,knowing they wont or cant read the get out clause in the smallprint.

how many people bought shares in something they already owned only to find the power of being a shareholder was irrelevant to the corporates

it will never be any better until the cycle is broken.

[Swanny]

So it’s not just all the youngsters that have failed, but their parents and our schools too? :-X



That's how it looks to me ;D

[Swanny]

Swanny you are so right.
the problem has been simmering for a generation or so.
as far as i am concerned thatcherism is to blame.
in empowering people (allegedly) an air of belief inentitlement was created without the backup to fulfill that belief.the failure to get across that you have to put something in to get something out is where it all went wrong.

but thats politics...tell them what they want to hear and make promises that can never be a reality,knowing they wont or cant read the get out clause in the smallprint.

how many people bought shares in something they already owned only to find the power of being a shareholder was irrelevant to the corporates

it will never be any better until the cycle is broken.


The system has been set up to fail. All part of their plan.

[Col]

Bad parenting and bad schooling are to blame

The C.B.I. site [ http://www.cbi.org.uk/business-issues/education-and-skills/ ]states :-

The number of employers who are dissatisfied with school and college leavers’ basic skills remains stuck at around a third – the same as a decade ago – with 42% reporting that they have had to provide remedial training for school and college leavers.

If this is what the business sector are saying, and have been for some time, then it is quite obvious the 'product' sent out by the teachers is inadequate and they have to accept that they must improve 'product quality'.....

.....admittedly, in some cases, the initial offering presented for them to deal with is far below satisfactory which is also a growing problem and ultimately cost i.e. more tax ::) but this is arguably also due to poor education levels and failure of the 'product' to achieve any level useful to society other than that of 'random breeder' ;D

It's been raining ........ again :D

[redken1]

Col, I think the key to unlock the door in this debate lies in the word, ‘product’. >:(

Let’s hope the ‘product’ doesn’t develop a mind of its own as we may see a real-life repeat of the scenes from the “Stepford Wives.” ;) :P ;D

Ye all this rain is doing my swede in. >:(

[Swanny]

Anyway the good news is that the Queen's annual pay is about to jump by 20 percent from 30 to 36 million pounds.


As if she needs more money.....

[Col]

Best say nowt as I might get an insult from that ray of sunshine fatbob ::)..........bollox think I will

Yeah Swanny it is payment from Crown Estates that did well the last year especially from the Marine Estate and sea wind turbines according to article I read....also 85% of Crown Estate profit goes to the Treasury apparently :)

;D ;D just found out this is less than half of what was paid in 1991 ;)

[Swanny]

How about putting the money in to the health service rather than in her bank?? I'm sure she would be happy to know that she is helping her subjects ;)