View Full Version : Tragic deaths
redken1
19-09-12, 08:14 PM
In the wake of the tragic deaths of two police officers in Greater Manchester this week, there are calls to routinely arm all of our police officers.
It would be wrong for me to speculate on the circumstances surrounding these latest murders, but I’m sure the emerging facts will reveal as to whether or not there may have been a different outcome had the two female officers been armed.
A 2006 survey of 47,328 Police Federation members found 82% did not want officers to be routinely armed on duty, despite almost half saying their lives had been "in serious jeopardy" during the previous three years.
It is a position shared by the Police Superintendents' Association and the Association of Chief Police Officers.
The British public are not nearly so unanimous.
An ICM poll in April 2004 found 47% supported arming all police, compared with 48% against.
RIP PC Nicola Hughes, and PC Fiona Bone. :'( :'(
Taylor911
19-09-12, 08:57 PM
Such a tragic incident. We had a minutes silence today for them.
I don't think officers should be routinely armed, however I think there should be more ARV units available.
Geordie Stu
20-09-12, 01:55 PM
I don't think officers should be routinely armed, however I think there should be more ARV units available.
I agree, more ARV units rather than arming police routinely. Perhaps categorise the crime & send ARV into potential problem areas or known trouble spots.
How many officers have been killed over the years arming Police may push that statisitic up.
Ducatista
20-09-12, 02:13 PM
It is a position shared by the Police Superintendents' Association and the Association of Chief Police Officers.
The British public are not nearly so unanimous.
Personally I'd leave it to those who've been in the job for deacdes and know what they are talking about, rather than leaving it to Jo public to decide.
It's very easy to get emotive from reading one story in the media, but Jo public doesn't have much of a clue about the pros and cons of carrying weapons.
its a very tragic incident but arming them may not prove to be the best answer. Criminals carry knives so the police get batons, criminals carry guns so the police get tasers, if the police get routinely issued with firearms it will just force the criminals to go one step higher but this is just MHO.
RIP
NO, police officers should not be armed. How long will it be til a police officer is killed by their own weapon? Then what will people say... they shouldn't be armed...? hmm
Just what we need more militarisation of the police :-/
Who is to say that police officers are fit to carry guns??
If you can have an 18 year old in the army trained to use a firearm I'm sure our police officers are intelligent enough to learn how to use them.
As with others on here I don't think it would be right to arm all officers but at least giving them a fighting change to have armed officers within range if required. With stations closing or only open at certain times your lucky to have police arrive let alone armed ones.
Ducatista
20-09-12, 05:13 PM
I'm sure our police officers are intelligent enough to learn how to use them.
And how much will that firearms training cost?
There isn't any extra money so that will probably result in cuts elsewhere.
With stations closing or only open at certain times your lucky to have police arrive
If you cut further because we've had to pay for expensive firearms training then I expect that would get worse not better.
If you can have an 18 year old in the army trained to use a firearm I'm sure our police officers are intelligent enough to learn how to use them.
As with others on here I don't think it would be right to arm all officers but at least giving them a fighting change to have armed officers within range if required. With stations closing or only open at certain times your lucky to have police arrive let alone armed ones.
I might be wrong but I think all the jam sandwich cars carry a gun??
It is a position shared by the Police Superintendents' Association and the Association of Chief Police Officers.
The British public are not nearly so unanimous.
Personally I'd leave it to those who've been in the job for deacdes and know what they are talking about, rather than leaving it to Jo public to decide.
It's very easy to get emotive from reading one story in the media, but Jo public doesn't have much of a clue about the pros and cons of carrying weapons.
totally agree Ducatista
Arming the Police wouldn't boher me in the slightest, I've spent years working on sites where the MoD Plods are fully tooled up and regular coppers unarmed afterwards seem slightly incomplete. Our Police service must be one of the few remaining in the world that is unarmed.
In many cases they are far too restrained. Who's seen the fly-on-the-wall TV footage of what they have to put up with in our town centres every Friday and Saturday night (and every other time really), drunken gob****es mouthing off and trying it on. Would there be anything like the level of trouble if in their tiny minds they knew they'd get a sound whacking for it? Is there another country in the world where the Police put up with that kind of crap?
There may be a cost implication to training all active officers in the use of firearms, but how does that cost compare with what happened this week?
Scotty you should move to America.
Those arseholes have guns and regularly beat up and kill innocent people.
The police are meant to be here as our servants to protect us not to bully and intimidate us.
There may be a cost implication to training all active officers in the use of firearms, but how does that cost compare with what happened this week?
Do you really think some one like the person that killed the two policewomen is going to change his mind if our police are armed?? Arming our police would solve nothing.
Scotty you should move to America.
Those arseholes have guns and regularly beat up and kill innocent people.
The police are meant to be here as our servants to protect us not to bully and intimidate us.
Lmao........what world do you live in ???
Why the hell should the police be treated like the scum of the earth by the drugged up, drunk wicked people in the country because they 'are our servants' ??
Number 1 ....they arent paid enough !!
Number 2......they are human too !!
Number 3 ....they chose the job
Number 4 .....if they don't like it leave
No one forces them to be police officers
If they don't like being treated badly by drunks etc does that give them the right to beat them?
There may be a cost implication to training all active officers in the use of firearms, but how does that cost compare with what happened this week?
Do you really think some one like the person that killed the two policewomen is going to change his mind if our police are armed?? Arming our police would solve nothing.
Had those two WPCs been armed, there's a good chance that at least one of them would still be alive, and we taxpayers might not be paying to keep that one-eyed scumbag alive in prison for the rest of his life.
Sorry but what you are saying is that just in case they are confronted with a psychopath who has set a trap to kill police officers that every police officer in Britain should carry a gun. Don't you think that is an over the top reaction?
Do you want this country to be like every other one with police brutality as the norm?
Thanks but I don't want to live in a police state.
I prefer our public servants as they are.
I tend to think that arming the police entirely would be a retrograde step and force the proliferation of weapons on a wider scale. But I would go with the opinions from the professionals and not Jo public who tend to make emotive actions based on what they feel rather than what they know. I would only add that in my experience of travelling to many countries where the police are armed I tend to get told by the locals that they admire our police force, the fact that they are (usually) unarmed and that they aspire to our standards not their own.
Jolly good Swanny.................am sure you'll still stick to that sentiment if you ever come up against a 'psychopath' with a gun and the police can't protect you as they don't have the power to do so.
But actually, there may not be any police when that happens 'cos they all left as they didnt like the job being 'servants' to people like yourself and didnt get paid enough for putting their lives on the line for people who don't give a toss.
Am wondering if you would do much better living on an island in the middle of the Pacific with no monarchy, no police, and no crime................ 'cos in the real world, where most of us live, it all exists hehehehe ;D ;D ;D
Beamer they are public servants and therefore knowing this it should not effect them whether or not people give a toss. Do you think traffic wardens care what people think about them?
Surely no one would take on a job without first checking the pay and the risks involved in it??? So saying they are not paid enough to do their job is daft.
In reality what are my chances of coming up against a 'psychopath' with a gun??
Maybe more so if the police are given guns. I wonder how many people will apply to be a police officer because they like the idea of being armed??
Sorry but what you are saying is that just in case they are confronted with a psychopath who has set a trap to kill police officers that every police officer in Britain should carry a gun. Don't you think that is an over the top reaction?
Do you want this country to be like every other one with police brutality as the norm?
Thanks but I don't want to live in a police state.
I prefer our public servants as they are.
Whilst we're on the subject of over-the-top reactions...
How many of the other nations that arm their Police are actually police states? Would you use that tag to describe the USA, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Canada, Australia...?
Try actually reading what I wrote - did I actually advocate whole scale arming of the Police? No I didn't, did I? I simply said that I wouldn't be bothered if they were armed. Try taking your head out of your arse, you'll be able to read more clearly... ::)
I wouldn't have much faith in the police helping me even if they did have guns.
Police refuse to save drowning man due to lack of training
30 July 2012
Police officers refused to get into the water to save a man drowning in a London canal because they had not had the right training, an inquest heard.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-refuse-to-save-drowning-man-due-to-lack-of-training-7986969.html
I don't know about the canals in London but the Kennet and Avon is only about 4' deep.
Anyway I'm not anti-police but I am anti-guns.
The less the better.
Whilst we're on the subject of over-the-top reactions...
How many of the other nations that arm their Police are actually police states? Would you use that tag to describe the USA, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Canada, Australia...?
Try actually reading what I wrote - did I actually advocate whole scale arming of the Police? No I didn't, did I? I simply said that I wouldn't be bothered if they were armed. Try taking your head out of your arse, you'll be able to read more clearly... ::)
As I see it those two WPC's were just normal police officers going about their duty, so by reading what you wrote then yes you did advocate whole scale arming of the Police.
As for police states I would put USA as well on it's way to becoming one.
As for heads and arses you're a fine one to talk ;D
I wouldn't have much faith in the police helping me even if they did have guns.
Police refuse to save drowning man due to lack of training
30 July 2012
Police officers refused to get into the water to save a man drowning in a London canal because they had not had the right training, an inquest heard.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-refuse-to-save-drowning-man-due-to-lack-of-training-7986969.html
I don't know about the canals in London but the Kennet and Avon is only about 4' deep.
Anyway I'm not anti-police but I am anti-guns.
The less the better.
I wouldn't have gone in to save a drugged up bozo intent on killing himself either. You're putting yourself at risk in doing so. 9pm on an evening they wouldn't have been able to see him once under the water anyway.
On the link, the last sentence from the coroner is:
“under the circumstances they did everything that was possible”.
There's always a second side to the story to balance the first.
goz1960
20-09-12, 08:25 PM
It is a position shared by the Police Superintendents' Association and the Association of Chief Police Officers.
The British public are not nearly so unanimous.
Personally I'd leave it to those who've been in the job for deacdes and know what they are talking about, rather than leaving it to Jo public to decide.
It's very easy to get emotive from reading one story in the media, but Jo public doesn't have much of a clue about the pros and cons of carrying weapons.
Well said however I would say bring back hanging.
Mitch9128
20-09-12, 08:27 PM
2 young women were murdered, the gang were carrying and used grenades, i doubt handguns would have been any use at all. RIP to the 2 young officers.
2 young women were murdered, the gang were carrying and used grenades, i doubt handguns would have been any use at all. RIP to the 2 young officers.
+1
I wouldn't have much faith in the police helping me even if they did have guns.
Police refuse to save drowning man due to lack of training
30 July 2012
Police officers refused to get into the water to save a man drowning in a London canal because they had not had the right training, an inquest heard.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-refuse-to-save-drowning-man-due-to-lack-of-training-7986969.html
I don't know about the canals in London but the Kennet and Avon is only about 4' deep.
Anyway I'm not anti-police but I am anti-guns.
The less the better.
I wouldn't have gone in to save a drugged up bozo intent on killing himself either. You're putting yourself at risk in doing so. 9pm on an evening they wouldn't have been able to see him once under the water anyway.
On the link, the last sentence from the coroner is:
“under the circumstances they did everything that was possible”.
There's always a second side to the story to balance the first.
There was a time an ordinary 'Joe Bloggs' would help out another person if they needed it but with so many people on drugs, out of their head drinking etc etc, it just doesnt happen anymore because they are too unpredictable, they have no idea of the consequences of their actions because of the substances they choose to put in their bodies and so we just leave it for the police to sort it 'cos thats their job' but when the police need backing everyone blames them if it goes wrong. Police do not have enough power anymore to do the job they are paid for and are at risk as soon as they put that uniform on........ I am in awe of the boys and girls in blue 'cos they get 'it' from both angles and are damned if they do and damned if they don't !!
I wouldn't have much faith in the police helping me even if they did have guns.
Police refuse to save drowning man due to lack of training
30 July 2012
Police officers refused to get into the water to save a man drowning in a London canal because they had not had the right training, an inquest heard.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-refuse-to-save-drowning-man-due-to-lack-of-training-7986969.html
I don't know about the canals in London but the Kennet and Avon is only about 4' deep.
Anyway I'm not anti-police but I am anti-guns.
The less the better.
I wouldn't have gone in to save a drugged up bozo intent on killing himself either. You're putting yourself at risk in doing so. 9pm on an evening they wouldn't have been able to see him once under the water anyway.
On the link, the last sentence from the coroner is:
“under the circumstances they did everything that was possible”.
There's always a second side to the story to balance the first.
I hope that if I'm ever in the situation that I might be able to save another humans life I at least give it ago :)
I wouldn't have much faith in the police helping me even if they did have guns.
Police refuse to save drowning man due to lack of training
30 July 2012
Police officers refused to get into the water to save a man drowning in a London canal because they had not had the right training, an inquest heard.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-refuse-to-save-drowning-man-due-to-lack-of-training-7986969.html
I don't know about the canals in London but the Kennet and Avon is only about 4' deep.
Anyway I'm not anti-police but I am anti-guns.
The less the better.
I wouldn't have gone in to save a drugged up bozo intent on killing himself either. You're putting yourself at risk in doing so. 9pm on an evening they wouldn't have been able to see him once under the water anyway.
On the link, the last sentence from the coroner is:
“under the circumstances they did everything that was possible”.
There's always a second side to the story to balance the first.
I hope that if I'm ever in the situation that I might be able to save another humans life I at least give it ago :)
In normal circumstances I would agree but not when the person you're trying to help is more likely to kill you as well as himself. What does that achieve? Are you trained in making in-water rescue's? Most likely you will end up killing yourself and putting more people at risk trying to save you as well as the other person. If you want to learn how to do it properly I can put you in touch with someone ;)
goz1960
20-09-12, 08:55 PM
Number 3 ....they chose the job
Number 4 .....if they don't like it leave
No one forces them to be police officers
If they don't like being treated badly by drunks etc does that give them the right to beat them?
OUT OF ORDER
In normal circumstances I would agree but not when the person you're trying to help is more likely to kill you as well as himself. What does that achieve? Are you trained in making in-water rescue's? Most likely you will end up killing yourself and putting more people at risk trying to save you as well as the other person. If you want to learn how to do it properly I can put you in touch with someone ;)
Actually as a narrow boat skipper I am trained to rescue people from the canal :)
Number 3 ....they chose the job
Number 4 .....if they don't like it leave
No one forces them to be police officers
If they don't like being treated badly by drunks etc does that give them the right to beat them?
OUT OF ORDER
Really what makes you say that?? :-?
Mitch9128
20-09-12, 08:57 PM
Number 3 ....they chose the job
Number 4 .....if they don't like it leave
No one forces them to be police officers
If they don't like being treated badly by drunks etc does that give them the right to beat them?
OUT OF ORDER
WTF how? By all means join in the debate, but what are you trying to do here? Stop it?
In normal circumstances I would agree but not when the person you're trying to help is more likely to kill you as well as himself. What does that achieve? Are you trained in making in-water rescue's? Most likely you will end up killing yourself and putting more people at risk trying to save you as well as the other person. If you want to learn how to do it properly I can put you in touch with someone ;)
Actually as a narrow boat skipper I am trained to rescue people from the canal :)
As I said, I can put you in touch with someone so you can learn how to do it properly... and safely. I've had to do it for real on several occasions - it ain't fun I can assure you. You're never too old to learn ;)
goz1960
20-09-12, 09:04 PM
Are you mad? two young female police officers are murdered doing a job for us, and the next day you are condoning some one making comments like that. All I can say is its a sad world we live in then. lets hope you never need the police as you don't deserve the right to ask for there help
Mitch9128
20-09-12, 09:07 PM
English?
As I said, I can put you in touch with someone so you can learn how to do it properly... and safely. I've had to do it for real on several occasions - it ain't fun I can assure you. You're never too old to learn ;)
I hold boatmasters licence and was a skipper on the K&A Jubilee for few years when she was moored at Dundas.
Thanks :)
goz1960
20-09-12, 09:10 PM
English?
Might not be quite up to Shakespeare standards but I am totally disgusted as I tried to construct a reply this sort of thread after a national disaster like this it makes my blood boil.
Are you mad? two young female police officers are murdered doing a job for us, and the next day you are condoning some one making comments like that. All I can say is its a sad world we live in then. lets hope you never need the police as you don't deserve the right to ask for there help
Making comments like what??
I think it's a terrible shame that these two women died doing their jobs but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about the police being armed.
redken1
20-09-12, 09:12 PM
I agree with the general consensus on here in not routinely arming the police. Like it or not, we live in a democracy and not a police state, therefore ultimately it will be a decision made on behalf of ‘Joe public’ by his elected representatives in Westminster. Of course, I would hope that the various police bodies would be consulted should this serious issue reach the governmental debate stage.
I have a lot of respect for the ordinary ‘Bobby’ on the beat, doing an extremely difficult job with increasingly dwindling resources.
That said however, the behaviour/action of higher ranking officers highlighted during the Leveson inquiry and last week’s Hillsborough revelations undermines public trust in the police.
A separate issue, but with regards to reintroducing Capital punishment, such a step could only be contemplated if we were to pull out of the EU, as the absolute ban on the death penalty is enshrined in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.
goz1960
20-09-12, 09:15 PM
Number 3 ....they chose the job
Number 4 .....if they don't like it leave
No one forces them to be police officers
If they don't like being treated badly by drunks etc does that give them the right to beat them?
OUT OF ORDER
Really what makes you say that?? :-?
Would you really make this type of statement regarding the fallen hero's coming back from Afghanistan etc
No one makes them do there job and they get paid to do there job I hope not?.
Mitch9128
20-09-12, 09:15 PM
English?
Might not be quite up to Shakespeare standards but I am totally disgusted as I tried to construct a reply this sort of thread after a national disaster like this it makes my blood boil.
National disaster? Tragic indeed, but not a national disaster. We're hardly affected by it here in Wiltshire are we?
Just remember that people like the police and army etc are here to protect all our freedoms, and that includes the freedom of speech, when people try to take that away by silencing it, they make a mockery of those who have died protecting our freedoms.
goz1960
20-09-12, 09:19 PM
English?
Might not be quite up to Shakespeare standards but I am totally disgusted as I tried to construct a reply this sort of thread after a national disaster like this it makes my blood boil.
National disaster? Tragic indeed, but not a national disaster. We're hardly affected by it here in Wiltshire are we?
Just remember that people like the police and army etc are here to protect all our freedoms, and that includes the freedom of speech, when people try to take that away by silencing it, they make a mockery of those who have died protecting our freedoms.
Sorry I suppose you are putting across your view but I think you must be mad if you think it does not affect us living in Wiltshire.
Mitch9128
20-09-12, 09:22 PM
How are you affected Goz?
I agree with the general consensus on here in not routinely arming the police. Like it or not, we live in a democracy and not a police state, therefore ultimately it will be a decision made on behalf of ‘Joe public’ by his elected representatives in Westminster. Of course, I would hope that the various police bodies would be consulted should this serious issue reach the governmental debate stage.
I have a lot of respect for the ordinary ‘Bobby’ on the beat, doing an extremely difficult job with increasingly dwindling resources.
That said however, the behaviour/action of higher ranking officers highlighted during the Leveson inquiry and last week’s Hillsborough revelations undermines public trust in the police.
A separate issue, but with regards to reintroducing capital punishment, such a step could only be contemplated if we were to pull out of the EU, as the absolute ban on the death penalty is enshrined in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.
Ken, I agree. That's twice in a week - we must try harder :D
Such a tragic event and such a waste of two precious lives. There are some areas of life I cannot understand or comprehend and this kind of malicious killing is one of those. RIP.
redken1
20-09-12, 09:27 PM
I agree with the general consensus on here in not routinely arming the police. Like it or not, we live in a democracy and not a police state, therefore ultimately it will be a decision made on behalf of ‘Joe public’ by his elected representatives in Westminster. Of course, I would hope that the various police bodies would be consulted should this serious issue reach the governmental debate stage.
I have a lot of respect for the ordinary ‘Bobby’ on the beat, doing an extremely difficult job with increasingly dwindling resources.
That said however, the behaviour/action of higher ranking officers highlighted during the Leveson inquiry and last week’s Hillsborough revelations undermines public trust in the police.
A separate issue, but with regards to reintroducing capital punishment, such a step could only be contemplated if we were to pull out of the EU, as the absolute ban on the death penalty is enshrined in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.
Ken, I agree. That's twice in a week - we must try harder :D
Such a tragic event and such a waste of two precious lives. There are some areas of life I cannot understand or comprehend and this kind of malicious killing is one of those. RIP.
Whatever next? :-* :-* :-* on the Lovey dovey thread? :D ;) ;D
goz1960
20-09-12, 09:29 PM
There are loads of people in this country capable of a crime like we have witnessed this week, I know this I am a prison officer and work with these people every day. You me my children your children/family could be living next door to someone capable of a crime like this.
One of the reasons they say this man done this was he wanted to become notorious by means of his crime, what im saying is who knows what mad man is next to think like this could be your next door or mine. We need these people POLICE OFFICERS to try to protect us
As I see it those two WPC's were just normal police officers going about their duty, so by reading what you wrote then yes you did advocate whole scale arming of the Police.
No, that was conjecture, not advocacy. There is a considerable difference between the two
DaytonaDog
21-09-12, 11:18 AM
The death/murder of a police officer(s), always raises the question/debate of whether or note the British Police should be armed (In Northern Ireland all police officers carry a handgun, not surprisingly). You can guarantee that the same arguments against the routine arming of police will be aired, i.e. if the police have more guns the criminals will increase their firepower, our police cant be trusted with a firearm, the police will be less approachable, etc etc.
Up until a few years ago I was firmly against carrying a firearm, not on the basis of the usual arguments against it, but on the basis that I did not want the responsibility of carrying one and possibly having to make the decision to use it and potentially injure/kill somebody. I did not want that on my conscience, and when I joined 16 years ago the risks to officers were not nearly as prevalent as they are today. However, due to a number of recent events, including incidents myself and colleagues have been involved in have made me reconsider my stance and I find myself seriously questioning my views/beliefs on this subject. In the last few years the incidents I have attended involving weapons, have significantly increased. Having said that the major of weapons incidents in the UK currently involve non-lethal weapons, however the use of firearms by the criminal fraternity in on the increase.
For example, Roual MOAT and Derek BIRD. Both could have been possibly been bought to a much quicker resolution had officers on the ground had more than a can of spray and a metal bar with which to challenge the gun totting suspects and the loss of life prevented because officers would not had to have waited for the ARVs/TFTs to attend from 30-40 mins away.
The police are very good at dealing with preplanned incidents where firearms are required because the ARVs will be present in advance, all the risk assessments have been completed and authorities obtained. The bureaucracy and decision making processes involved in the authorisation of use of firearms is staggering. However we are not so capable of dealing with spontaneous events due to the lack of sufficient firearms cover. Recently I had an incident where myself and colleagues were looking for a male who had recently attended his exgirlfriends address, smashed the place up and assaulted her and others. This was at about 5 in the morning. He was quickly located, but he was carrying some broken glass and immediately put it too his neck and threatened to cut himself and us if we approached. What followed was a 40 minute stand off, with officers trying to negotiate with him, whilst we waited for the nearest ARV to attend as the officers on the ground were only armed with a metal stick and a can of spray, both ineffective from about 6 feet. As soon as the ARV attended, they challenged the male with Tazer, he gave up with incident or injury and the matter was resolved in about 2 minutes. Had the officers attending had the correct equipment it could have been resolved far far quicker. I can give many more examples of this type of incident involving a long stand off, waiting for the ARVs to attend, when they could have been resolved if officers had been suitably equipped.
The argument that criminals were carry bigger firearms if the police are armed is somewhat weak in my opinion. They already carry powerful firearms, including semi automatic weapons and as evidenced by recent events, grenades. Police officers carry firearms in most other countries, and funnily enough I dont recall hearing about RPG/rocket launcher totting criminals in those countries.
The issue of the routine arming of police officers needs to be seriously debated, not swept under the carpet by MPs and senior police officers who are not the ones being placed at risk.
In my opinion the solution would be to give all officers a tazer, as this is a non-lethal and effective tool against the greatest threat to officers, i.e. non-leathal weapons and to increase significantly and not reduce as is currently happening the number of authorised firearms officers, including having a couple of frontline officers who conduct the routine patrols authorised in the use of firearms.
I have attached a link to a blog, as the author puts across his viewpoints far more eloquently and effectively that I do. Please take time to read it. The poignant bit in his post is where he states that many have said that if Nicola and Fiona had been armed, they probably still would have died in that ambush. For me, the ‘probably’ word is the key one. All I am going to say is this; if you face an ambush and you are both armed, you might die. If you face an ambush and neither of you are armed, you will die.
http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/
Geordie Stu
21-09-12, 11:53 AM
Says it all really. I have empathy with you in being armed. The decision to use it would be a split second judgment call on your before. Not a choice I'd like to make. Do your colleagues feel the same way about being armed? Would be interesting to get the view point of the whole of the Police force before MP's & senior officers make that choice for you.
Thank you Chris for posting this. It's nice to see the views of someone from the inside.
This subject has caused a very heated debate but after all is said two women have died/been murdered (whether mother, wife,girlfriend, daughter or grand daugther someone has been affected)
I wish their families peace once the killer has been brought to justice/sentenced.
No doubt in my mind that the police will be armed soon. It's all part of the militarization of the police force. But how far will it go??
http://www.blackberrycool.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/16oct09_britishpolice.jpg
http://www.polease.co.uk/pol/images/com_fwgallery/files/62/aru-beret-style.JPG
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_03/copwomDM604_468x538.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-560070/The-paramilitary-face-policewoman-armed-handgun-taser-flak-jacket-pieces-equipment.html
Do you think the bloke on the left is suitable to carry a gun???
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/4/2/1238710377305/Police-stop-G20-protester-001.jpg
What happened to the good old Bobby??
pilninggas
21-09-12, 04:57 PM
No doubt in my mind that the police will be armed soon. It's all part of the militarization of the police force. But how far will it go??
http://www.blackberrycool.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/16oct09_britishpolice.jpg
http://www.polease.co.uk/pol/images/com_fwgallery/files/62/aru-beret-style.JPG
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_03/copwomDM604_468x538.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-560070/The-paramilitary-face-policewoman-armed-handgun-taser-flak-jacket-pieces-equipment.html
Do you think the bloke on the left is suitable to carry a gun???
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/4/2/1238710377305/Police-stop-G20-protester-001.jpg
What happened to the good old Bobby??
Yes give the copper on the left a gun; he's certainly being assertive, just as he was trained to be in those circumstances.
Thank-god the police are being milatarised - the criminals were years ago.......
RIP those two coppers :'( killed doing the job they loved.
He looks insane to me..
Don't forget he is facing unarmed protesters who are doing nothing wrong.
What I'm saying is that just because someone joins the police force it doesn't automatically mean they are suitable to carry a gun.
pilninggas
21-09-12, 05:21 PM
He looks insane to me..
Don't forget he is facing unarmed protesters who are doing nothing wrong.
What I'm saying is that just because someone joins the police force it doesn't automatically mean they are suitable to carry a gun.
I can't see the crowd or know what it was going on, but he's just making himself big and loud, which is exactly what I would do also in that situation.
More info on the nice chap with the baton
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/03/g20-protests-police-tactics
DaytonaDog
21-09-12, 05:30 PM
He looks insane to me..
Don't forget he is facing unarmed protesters who are doing nothing wrong.
What I'm saying is that just because someone joins the police force it doesn't automatically mean they are suitable to carry a gun.
I can't see the crowd or know what it was going on, but he's just making himself big and loud, which is exactly what I would do also in that situation.
Totally agree, you cant see the protesters so to be able to state they are unarmed and doing nothing wrong is based on opinion and not fact.
What the officers are doing is what is called a 'show of strength', where a line of officer raise there batons above their head in unison and shout at the crowd to 'get back'. Looking at the picture I suspect that is what is occurring here.
The other photographs are of authorised firearms officers. If officers were routinely armed in this country they would not carry the firearms that these officers carry and would most probably have a handgun, carried on their utility belt along with the handcuffs, baton, cs gas and people would soon not even notice they were carrying.
I don't like the thought of living in a country where police are walking around with guns, I didn't grow up in one. Hopefully it won't happen but I won't hold my breath on that.
I've had my say here.
pilninggas
21-09-12, 06:07 PM
More info on the nice chap with the baton
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/03/g20-protests-police-tactics
C'mon, it's biased rubbish. The Grauniad writes the most sanctimonious left-wing drivel going. It's no different to the Sun, putting into print what the target reader wants to see.
Actually I retract the drivel bit, there was a decent article in the Guardian Weekly, a month or two ago recommending longer sentences for certain crimes (proving not all liberal-media apologists have their heads up their arseholes).
chasingpavements
22-09-12, 12:25 AM
I have read these posts and just wanted to say a few words. The title for this thread is' tragic deaths', as far as I'm concerned...that says it all. I don't know if Bobbies should be armed or not, those who know better than me will decide. All I know is that we all have the 'dept of death' to pay one day. However, for many of us it will be with our loved ones close by. For me, I know that to have those you love taken from you in a violent and sudden way leaves those behind floundering. I don't care what happens to those that did this,I only care that those left behind know that we care. Everyone should be effected by this, it makes no difference where you geographically live, its not about where it happened, its the fact it did happen.
I would like to repeat the Blog Daytonadog posted, a brilliant and enthralling read, well written. We really need more bloggers like Gadget, as this is the view from the front line troops. What you get in the media is the view of the front line troops AFTER it has been filtered and edited as it goes higher up the ladder before being released. I know from personal experience that when you chat to an officer 'off the record' you often get a different story and viewpoint than when you put a microphone in front of them and ask if you can quote.
http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/
Firstly I don't think that image of a police officer can't be taken to show if they are fit to carry a side arm one way or the other, a single still shot doesn't show you what was going on in any great detail. You don't know if the person he is shouting at is armed or not, the camera doesn't show it. Maybe he is telling people to get down as he thinks he has seen someone who is armed waving their weapon around, maybe the officer behind him caught him in the plums when he raised his own baton? The fact is, with media images like this the only thing you can guarantee they have been chosen for is sensationalism, as that's what sells. The caption for that image could be 'Frenzied officer loses plot, pulls his baton and charges a group of young mothers with children' when in actual fact the real caption for that specific time and incident may well have been 'Faced with a potentially hostile situation, officers raise batons and yell at the crowd to get back'. It maybe true that photo's can't lie, but that doesn't mean they always tell the truth.
People always seem to use the USA as an example of what will happen if we arm the police, for the same reason. Take the worst case scenario and sensationalise it. The German police also carry guns, yet they only fired 85 bullets in the whole of 2011, and most of those where just warning shots. Compare that to American police who fired 90 shots at an single unarmed man running away. A stark contrast I think you will agree. The difference is that the USA has a 'everyone should own one' gun culture that doesn't exist here or in Germany.
Personaly I wouldn't like to see every police officer walking the street with a side arm, however I don't have to go into situations that we ask and expect these people to go into on our behalf on a daily basis. I'm sure DaytonaDog can give you many examples of situations he's been in, looked at the equipment he's issued with and the problem in front of him, how far away backup is (due to not enough officers and those that are available are either filling in the hours and hours of paperwork involved with going to tell 'Darren' that he can't send nasty text messages to 'Tracy' even though 'the slag threatened to key my Evo', or dealing with a '2 can van damme' who's had a half pint of shandy more than they should and is smashing up parking meters because they got a ticket for being 10 mins late back to their vehicle), and thought '****, there is a good chance I'm goign to get cheesed here (like creamed but it goes on for longer).
The tragic loss of two officers should affect each and every one of us. We lost two great officers who do a tough job in a tough area, we should be listening to these people, not the MP's and not ACPO.
redken1
17-10-12, 06:49 PM
A "terrified" blind man was hit with a 50,000 volt taser gun after police mistook his white stick for a Samurai sword.
Stroke victim Colin Farmer, 61, collapsed to the ground in shock after he was hit in the back with the gun while walking down the street in Chorley, Lancs.
If all our police officers were routinely armed, this unfortunate old chap may well not have survived to tell the tale. He certainly got a big shock in both senses of the word. :o
I heard this on the radio today. Makes you wonder who was really blind
If someone made a massive really bad mistake at work in any other job they would be sacked, I bet these people aren't :-/
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