'Poppy facists'

[redken1]

There are some stories in the news cycle that never vary, and Jon Snow's lack of poppy is one of them. If you google 'jon snow poppy', the first page that appears is from the BBC posted in 2006. The arguments are the same each time. Someone attacks Snow for not showing respect, and he defends himself by stating that he refuses to wear symbols on air, although he does wear a poppy in private. He is accused – more or less – of treason, and he then rebuts by saying that his accusers are 'poppy fascists'.

I will be making my usual contribution to the British Legion and paying my respects to all our fallen heroes from both wars. I agree with Jon Snow however, people should be allowed to choose as to whether or not to wear a poppy and not feel under pressure from others to do so.

People should be allowed to remember all those who paid the ultimate price to protect our freedom in their own way, without being dictated to. IMHO it goes completely against what the Poppy symbolises.

[wiltshire builders]

What like this?
I think these posters are disgusting and the Royal British Legion should be ashamed of themselves for allowing it.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4613693/Poppy-Appeal-posters.html

[Mitch9128]

To be fair, since H4H and their ilk came along, RBL and SAAFA have lost a lot of revenue. It is very difficult for them to claw this back, and as they don't limit their help to only recent troubles, they need the money more than most.

[Gooz]

I disagree, I think the posters are very good and highlight not only an absence of a poppy but an absence of mind, there are many political arguments for and against the conflicts our troops face and serve in ............ however only one thing remains constant, They choose to serve our country and defend its shores, they do not choose to wage war or which wars they would fight, I do know for a fact however that the moment something happens or goes wrong at home, the voices shouting the loudest against them soon end up shouting the loudest for help,
The british Legion are a charity relying upon your goodwill and donations, they serve across the board both serving soldiers, and no longer serving, they also help the families and businesses of people connected, H4H do not, they are only working with serving soldiers, nothing wrong with that either but legion Money works closer to home than any of you could possibly imagine and it was their support and Money that subsidised the Wiltshire Bikers First aid courses, as it was their money used to help set up my company for which I am truly greatful, and as such its Legion money that works 365 days a year , unfortunately their biggest infllux is around rememberance day and that has to stretch all year around, poppy police or facists are nothing compared to the suffering endured by the people gone before and continually growing list, most wars are not fought on the Island upon which we live, BUT , if we did not maintain our presence elsewhere it wouldnt be long before they were once more.
The poppy itself actually represents a resillience to fall or falter when surrounded by adversity, something of beauty to behold in a time of desperation in a place of desolation, perhaps if you alter your peception of it slightly you may see it differently, We all beleive in freedom, We all believe in right over wrong, so whats wrong witha mass display of unity at a poigniant time such as rememberance, that display itself is noticed by the rest of the world without combat, a unified state of mind and sense of belief, one not to be ignored or taken lightly by others, united we stand but divided we will certainly fall.

The sight of these delicate, vibrant red flowers growing on the shattered ground caught the attention of a Canadian soldier by the name of John McCrae. He noticed how they had sprung up in the disturbed ground of the burials around the artillery position he was in. It was during the warm days of early May 1915 when he found himself with his artillery brigade near to the Ypres-Yser canal. He is believed to have composed a poem following the death of a friend at that time. The first lines of the poem have become some of the most famous lines written in relation to the First World War.

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[wiltshire builders]

You can save the speech Gooz. Yesterday I ran 11k with a busted knee and raised over £160. I put a link up to my just giving site on the forum.
Do you know how many forum members donated?
None.
And it's their choice.
Who do we have to thank for having the freedom of choice?
The soldiers that the legion are helping.
These posters go against everything that the legion stood for. Charity is now big business and many people are losing sight of what it's about.

Wear your poppy with pride not guilt.

[bobf279]

Wear your poppy with pride not guilt.


What he said

[redken1]

Wear your poppy with pride not guilt.


Very well put Dan - that was the point of my initial post

Charities are treading a fine line when they adopt shock and awe tactics with the aim of raising additional funding.

Could turn out to be counterproductive if Joe Public perceives ‘pulling on the heart strings’ as emotional blackmail.

[Beamer]

You can save the speech Gooz. Yesterday I ran 11k with a busted knee and raised over £160. I put a link up to my just giving site on the forum.
Do you know how many forum members donated?
None.
And it's their choice.
Who do we have to thank for having the freedom of choice?
The soldiers that the legion are helping.
These posters go against everything that the legion stood for. Charity is now big business and many people are losing sight of what it's about.

Wear your poppy with pride not guilt.




Please dont take too much offence WB but
1, I do not use credit or debit cards and only deal with cash so am unable to donate to anything online...EVER.
2, I have already paid my money to the charity of MY choice towards todays annual event.
3, I am pleased you did your run, I am sorry you have a broken knee, Im glad you raised such a good amount
BUT
posting up the fact that no-one from the forum donated to your particular way of fund raising sounds like sour grapes to me.
Like you said, we all have a choice......you have no idea where, how or when every other member of the forum donated to the cause.

Soap box removed :) :)

[Gerry]

Agreed Tina.
Many people donate to charities without making it public or asking other people to donate to their efforts.
We all make our choices.

Well done on the run though [smiley=thumbup.gif]

[wiltshire builders]

You can save the speech Gooz. Yesterday I ran 11k with a busted knee and raised over £160. I put a link up to my just giving site on the forum.
Do you know how many forum members donated?
None.
And it's their choice.
Who do we have to thank for having the freedom of choice?
The soldiers that the legion are helping.
These posters go against everything that the legion stood for. Charity is now big business and many people are losing sight of what it's about.

Wear your poppy with pride not guilt.






Please dont take too much offence WB but
1, I do not use credit or debit cards and only deal with cash so am unable to donate to anything online...EVER.
2, I have already paid my money to the charity of MY choice towards todays annual event.
3, I am pleased you did your run, I am sorry you have a broken knee, Im glad you raised such a good amount
BUT
posting up the fact that no-one from the forum donated to your particular way of fund raising sounds like sour grapes to me.
Like you said, we all have a choice......you have no idea where, how or when every other member of the forum donated to the cause.

Soap box removed :) :)
Wow! Miss the point much?

I clearly stated that freedom of choice is the main point of my post and that I didn't bang on about my run in the way that the RBL posters do about wearing a poppy.
This post is about not being made to feel guilty about not giving to charity yet you have ignored everything I said and tried to manipulate it.
I would be mortified if anyone sponsored me because they felt pressured into it.

I find what you're implying both offensive and baffling as everything I have written points to the contrary.

[Beamer]

why mention it at all then ???

And freedom of choice is what its all about and who made it possible.....its about them....not you !!

[wiltshire builders]

Because it proves the point I was making!
You're just repeating everything I said earlier.
If you don't understand something, that's your problem not mine.

[Gerry]

Because of my low intellect I've had to re-read your posts to get your point. I can see what you are saying now (I think) :-/
Pity you seemed to complicate your argument by mentioning your worthy efforts (especially on busted knee) and WB's members response !

I don't agree with your disagreement on the posters (that's the paper ones, not the forum ones) though, it's a hard life out there and everybody else does it so if you (or they) take the moral high ground and don't do it you will be left begging for the leftovers from the donkey sanctuary and poor pussy charities :)

[Jon_W]

Wear your poppy with pride not guilt.


What he said

+1.

I donate but do not wear a poppy. My choice.

Prehaps rather than argue about the poppy, we should reflect on the millions of men, women and children killed in war and the fact that this barbarism continues in the 21st century.

[wiltshire builders]

Because of my low intellect I've had to re-read your posts to get your point. I can see what you are saying now (I think) :-/
Pity you seemed to complicate your argument by mentioning your worthy efforts (especially on busted knee) and WB's members response !

I don't agree with your disagreement on the posters (that's the paper ones, not the forum ones) though, it's a hard life out there and everybody else does it so if you (or they) take the moral high ground and don't do it you will be left begging for the leftovers from the donkey sanctuary and poor pussy charities :)


And what if i'd adopted the RBL poster campaign approach to get money out of you?
It's unfair to make people feel morally obliged to give to charity you'd have either begrudgingly given or thought badly of my agressive tactics. Like I highlighted before, I respected everyones choice unlike the RBL. (Despite what Tina seems to think)

I'm affraid you've contradicted yourself. The poster campaign is designed to make people feel that it's socially unacceptable to not give to the RBL.
As soon as that happens your freedom of choice is diminished.
These totalitarian tactics are an excellent way of raising money, keeping people in line or convincing people that a religious group are unfairly hoarding your country's wealth and need to be wiped out.

[Mitch9128]

I'm LOL'ing that some of you think soldiers gave you freedoms, soldiers take away freedoms, it's unions and ordinary people who fought hard for freedoms and rights that we have today.

[Gooz]

I still don't agree Dan, the poster is using a subtle shock tactic to make you think, and obviously it worked, as regardless of what you think or beleive, or wether you choose to wear a poppy or not, someone was moved enough one way or the other to copy and paste the poster onto a well subscribed forum, and then get themselves into a full on debate over it, you have still donated, and raised their profile without realising it.
Regardless of how any of us think you yourself have also said through your own fundraising efforts how hard it was to get people to part with their money. not those words exactly before you start jumping up and down but with inferences to the lack of donations from w'brs,
Maybe you should have gotten in touch with the RBL and asked them who designs their posters and get them to knock one up for you, as i for one had no idea what you yourself were up to, If I had then I would quite happily of supported you if it were a worthy cause.

[redken1]

Dan, posted up this quote from the President of a global charity because we were talking about charities using shock tactics to raise awareness at work today. To be honest we were split evenly in our differing views, but “compassion fatigue” was mentioned during our lunch-time discussion.

“As charities who frequently deal with sensitive, even controversial, issues, we owe it to those we serve to avoid sensationalising their pain. Bad enough that they had to face trauma and obstacles without us using them or their situation as case studies to leverage public guilt. We need to ask ourselves: Are we fighting for brand recognition or are we fighting for real change? If all shock advertising does is generate temporary public outrage, reinforce negative perceptions of our causes and create compassion fatigue, then we should abandon it.”

Whilst I accept that shock tactics focuses minds I’m not convinced that that always translates into an increase in donations. I think charities need to recognise that there is not a bottomless tank of public sympathy out there to tap into and continual use of shock advertising could lead to “compassion fatigue” among the generous public.

[Gooz]

as you quite rightly point out "compassion fatigue" is very real and always a problem, however a charity cannot function on donations alone, their purpose is not always about spending, sometimes a raised awareness is much more valuable to them and their aim than a donation, a raising of awareness and purpose will normally follow with an increased subscription to their ranks by people moved by what they are seeing, this will eventually lead to more people spreading the word and collecting on their behalf, so it rolls on, and as a very active member of a few charities my biggest issue was always manpower , then funding, and the posters used have had exactly that effect, I have no qualms whatsoever with WB and admire his efforts but love or hate we are all talking about them and as such most of us have followed the link and looked at them,
Personnally I do not find them offensive at all, I think they are very clever, unfortunately we do now live in a society that requires a lot more to shock us nowadays, I have seen much much worse, usually involving children or animals, and one of those posters wasn't inferrenced to a lack of a poppy, it was a lack of a family member, it could have easily been me or you or anyone of us on our bikes, wouldnt you like to think that if ever the worst happened to any of us your family would find comfort and support from someone or somebody who wanted and was able to help them.

[Swanny]

I think the problem with the poppy appeal is most people relate it to the 1st and 2nd world wars and they were so very long ago.

[Kevinb]

Now that everyones argued about the poppy appeal shall we move on to Christmas. Some seem to think it is a religious holiday and that Jesus Christ was white English and took his holidays in Glastonbury ;D
I just want to know what time is Christmas dinner and whats on TV other than 12 episodes of Eastenders and 10 of Corrie

[Jon_W]

Bah Humbug!

[Crosbie]

Now that everyones argued about the poppy appeal shall we move on to Christmas. Some seem to think it is a religious holiday and that Jesus Christ was white English and took his holidays in Glastonbury ;D
I just want to know what time is Christmas dinner and whats on TV other than 12 episodes of Eastenders and 10 of Corrie
More to the point, does Old St Nick wear his poppy and does he make it compulsory that the Elfs have to work with a poppy pinned on their braces and do they stop work to pay their respects with a minutes silence?

[Crosbie]

I'm LOL'ing that some of you think soldiers gave you freedoms, soldiers take away freedoms, it's unions and ordinary people who fought hard for freedoms and rights that we have today.
I’m lol'ing that any one would think they had freedom. I have socially perceived freedom and am under no illusion. The only lucky sods with almost total freedom are the handful of uncontacted tribes buried deep in the rainforests. That’s real life! Real freedom (almost)

[Swanny]

http://www.flixya.com/files-photo/m/i/h/mihai209-1922093.jpg

[Mitch9128]

Who'd have thought the revolution would have began here, on a small bikers forum in Wiltshire...

[redken1]

Who'd have thought the revolution would have began here, on a small bikers forum in Wiltshire...

Gotta start somewhere :D ;D

[Swanny]

Vi va la
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0Vk1XxNUxhU/Tm_lxBEtaRI/AAAAAAAAAM8/Uju1gOTRaFs/s1600/RevolutionLove.jpg

:)

[Kevinb]

Does that mean we are all revolting on this site?

[Jon_W]

Yep!