Bikesafe today

[Squashed_Fly]

Just wanted to say a huge thanks to the Bikesafe team and the Wiltshire Police for an awesome day!

Very informative, eye opening and fun. Did not realise that every fatal accident carries costs of an average of £1.7m!!!!!!

Had a good ride out and it was interesting. Had a really good ride, and the only real faults were not getting far enough over to the near/offside when cornering (thise guys are pretty much on the white line when going left!) and failing to spot a dropped curb on the opposite side when doing an overtake. Nothing coming out but he said if something had, and I hadn't seen it could have been bad. But he did recommend starting the IAM so I was quite chuffed!

If anyone is thinking about doing it, I'd thoroughly recommend it. There were guys there who have been riding 30 years +, and one guy who was an instructor, and they all learnt new things! Some of the videos they showed us were very eye opening...

I wore my (very bright, and stretched around the breast area) WBers hoody, so hopefully we might get one or 2 people join up!

Caz - did you used to have a silver bike? There were some pics up and one of a lady who looked just like you, but stood with a silver bike.....

[silly_simon]

I really enjoyed the one I did a few years ago :)

I must get round to doing another one :o

[wiltshire builders]

Very informative, eye opening and fun. Did not realise that every fatal accident carries costs of an average of £1.7m!!!!!!

.
That figure isn't true and has been manipulated to shock. They've taken the individual costs of medical care and losses on a 1 to 1 basis. Obviously that doesn't happen in real life. That would be like saying your bike cost £10m to make because of all the research and developement that went into it. I don't think they should use that line as it de-values everything else they say and is a little patronising.

It's still a great course and is a must for anyone riding on the road. The observational skills taught are worth it alone.

[Dabz]

..and if you do the one at castle combe on june 4th you also get 15 mins on track after your ride :)

[Squashed_Fly]

Very informative, eye opening and fun. Did not realise that every fatal accident carries costs of an average of £1.7m!!!!!!

.
That figure isn't true and has been manipulated to shock. They've taken the individual costs of medical care and losses on a 1 to 1 basis. Obviously that doesn't happen in real life. That would be like saying your bike cost £10m to make because of all the research and developement that went into it. I don't think they should use that line as it de-values everything else they say and is a little patronising.

It's still a great course and is a must for anyone riding on the road. The observational skills taught are worth it alone.

It's an average of all the costs involved, but that doesn't mean it's not true. It takes medical care, surgeons wages to try and fix mangled bodies, ambulance people, wages of the police that have to attend and deal with it, insurance losses, solicitors fees if there is a guilty party etc all into account among lots of other things.

Yes, it's a shock figure, but it's put there to shock you into riding more safely. Is that a bad thing?

[wiltshire builders]

No what they've done is taken medical staff wages e.g 3xnurses on £28,000 per year, Specialist on £120,000 per year, 2x paramedics on £35,000 per year then police, physio etc and put all of that on one person. It doesn't work like that in real life. All those staff are working for other people too. So instead of dividing the cost by 1 it would be divided by 10 or 20. Think of it as mass production as opposed to a bespoke service.

At £1.7m the country would be bankrupt within a week. They're running the risk of making people think "b*llocks to that" and disregarding things that the should really listen to.

Like I said it's a good course appart from that.

[Squashed_Fly]

No what they've done is taken medical staff wages e.g 3xnurses on £28,000 per year, Specialist on £120,000 per year, 2x paramedics on £35,000 per year then police, physio etc and put all of that on one person.



Is that your opinion, or can you back that up with some kind of evidence?

[Col]

Fly you can deffo take off WBuilders physio cost ;D

They'd be at their job anyway in one form or another so the plod figure is as WB says.
I doubt it is really possible to get a proper cost figure imho Do you include doughnut eating time and chatting about Corrie and when does time start on event and end ?

[Squashed_Fly]

Fair point. I know you can never get a pounds/pence exact figure per accident, as some will require much more input than others from various involved parties. But as an average, I'm willing to bet it's about right. I don't think they're stupid enough to give out information like that, without at least having some factual basis. And I'm fairly certain they are already aware of the things that WB mentioned and probably take that into account.

For example, of the 430 bike fatalaties last year, we can probably assume many of them required surgeons on the operating tables before dieing (assuming they didn't doa). Wiki answers lists upper pay scale for a brain surgeon as being $700,000. General surgeons may get as much as $10,000 per surgery in severe cases (which we can assume all of these are since they ended in fatalities). ok, these are US figures, but let's assume for now that they translate accross here. When you factor in a long operation could be 10 hours+, sometimes at overtime rates, requiring 2 or more surgeons + support staff. Plus the time it takes ambulance crew, you could have fire service, police - as many as 20 or more different people to attand the scenes of more serious accidents (invlolving cars, cutting equipment etc).

I can quite easily see how these costs mount up. Especially when you take insurance costs etc into account. lets say the biker killed, injures someone else so they can't work. Friends dad left the RAF and worked for British Airways as a pilot earning over £1m a year. Someone went into the back of him, he was injured so he couldn't continue flying, and succesully recived the equivalent of his last 10 years potential pilot time salary in a payout. They take all that stuff into account.

It is obviously designed to shock, and of course not every accident costs that or anywhere near it. But some cost so vastly in excess of it, that it's averaged out.

I've no reason to believe they were lying, or that they had not come up with that figure based on some evidence. You can't just present stuff like in public without having some basis of truth. Remember, lawyers, doctors, surgeons, police etc all attend these events throughout the UK so they'd soon say something if they disagreed with it.

[Ducatista]

I have no idea whether the costs are reflected accurately.
I have a feeling that WB has a point in that all those nurses and policemen would be paid anyway.

Can we all agree that the loss of a single life is not only a huge economic cost but an enormous loss to those affected in non-economic terms?

Any attempt to reduce loss of life (and lets not forget life changing injuries) has to be good.

My personal view has always been that my bike is perfectly capable way beyond what's required. It's the nut connecting the handlebars to the seat that's the problem.

[@bj]

Must admit - I have doubts about the £1.7m figure...

Perhaps the next WB'er to be presented this figure on a Bikesafe course could ask for the source...

On a slightly different note - this can't be right either...


left the RAF and worked for British Airways as a pilot earning over £1m a year.

or is this hypothetical..?

[Snowy]

I would expect the statistics start from the Dft:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/accidents/casualtiesgbar/rrcgb2009

The reason Wiltshire Council covers the costs of the Bikesafe event to make it a free entry (unlike most other Authorities) is from the cost saving aspect i.e save one life and the cost saved pays for the Bikesafe course many times over.

[Ducatista]

But he did recommend starting the IAM so I was quite chuffed!

Are are you going to or did you sign up?
I must admin I procrastinated for a while (a few years probably).

[Squashed_Fly]

Must admit - I have doubts about the £1.7m figure...

Perhaps the next WB'er to be presented this figure on a Bikesafe course could ask for the source...

On a slightly different note - this can't be right either...


left the RAF and worked for British Airways as a pilot earning over £1m a year.

or is this hypothetical..?

No, this is accurate (there or there abouts). A guy in a corsa came off a roundabbout and went up the back of his aston, at about 50mph and he was paralysed from the waist down. His payout was equivalent to 10 years top level BA pilot salary, including benefits etc.


Ducatista - think I will do the IAM. Want to get this year out of the way, as I've already got lots of things eating away at the budget (including a wedding to pay for!).

[@bj]

whoa, whoa, whoa...

I'm begining to suspect numbers aren't your forte..?

BA pilots don't earn £1m a year - I'm pretty sure about that - it was a rhetorical question... Willie Walsh would have a heart attack...

He may have got £1m compensation - but that's estimated earnings over 10+ years...

[b_m1957]

Wiki answers lists upper pay scale for a brain surgeon as being $700,000. General surgeons may get as much as $10,000 per surgery in severe cases
So 70 complicated surgeries would max out a top earning general surgeon?

Seriously?

[wiltshire builders]

This is all getting a little bit petty.

My point was just to highlight that their outlandish claims de-valued the rest of the amazing advice, and they could potntially have the opposite effect of what they're trying to achieve.

Incidently, I believed the £1.7m figure (why wouldn't I?) until my friend who is an ex-bike cop from almondsbury set me straight.

[Squashed_Fly]

Lol, ironically I work with numbers all day every day! Perhaps time for a new job? ;D

[Dave_R1]

I did BikeSafe a few years ago and thought it was an excellent day out. Im tempted to do the Castle Combe one in June as a refresher.

Re IAM, I bought an IAM bike course about 8 years ago via a charity auction and never got around to doing it - I wish I had!

As part of my job i've done a 4 weeks IAM-equivalent (in that you can join IAM without taking another test) driving course and learned a HUGE amount. Im tempted to get on and do my IAM bike too :)

Dave

[Ducatista]

Well if you want to join and are going to a Bikesafe, then join up on the day and they will give you a £15 cashback voucher (you get it back when you take your test).

[xsive33]

Hi SF,

Good to meet you last Sunday.

It was a very informative day and nice to get some positive feedback from the persuing Police rider! ;D

As my old man used to say, "Every day's a school day"!