Arsebiscuits!!!

[Scotty]

I gave the road bike a service on Saturday (oil & filter change), no problems there, so as I wasn't busy tonight I swapped it for the track bike to do the same thing, warmed up the engine, took out the drain bolt and.... what looked like milky coffee fell into the drain pan... Bollocks! >:( >:( >:(
I'll ring a couple of people tomorrow to see if it's likely to be anything other than the most obvious, but that's more from hope than expectation, so I'm likely to have to drop the engine out of it and swap the head gasket pretty shortly, just what I could do without as the car broke down last night as well and I haven't got that back yet (Big ups to Justin for collecting me and giving me a lift home at 21:00) ::) ::) ::) At least I haven't got any trackdays in the immediate future....

[Nooj]

Could it just be condensation that's emulsified if the track bike's not been run for a while?

[Scotty]

'Fraid not, the water level in the radiator has dropped quite a way :-/

[Jacde]

Not at all technical Scotty but curious to know what's wrong. I know a gasket problem on a car isn't good news, can only guess it's the same with a bike?

[stretchie_]

Oh no, sorry to hear that, I have no idea which bike you have (Ninja going by the avatar), but would you be able to get away with draining the fluids, getting a jack under the engine, remove the forward (and poss one of the rear) mounting bolts and maybe then tilting the engine forwards to give you access to removing the cylinder block?.

It might make it a bit easier than just dropping the whole thing out??

[Jon_W]

Is there a frost plug in those engines??? Sounds odd that it's blown a gasket stood still....

[jonnydangerous]

do they have an o-ring where the waterpump pipe seals into the engine, or is it like a zx9 where the seal is a bit dodgy and drops coolant into the engine............
might not be a head gasket.....

[Moo]

As its a track bike was there any anti freeze in it? If not could be expensive if its down to freezing :(

[Scotty]

That's what I'm fearing Moo, I don't run it with anti-freeze in it, and I've never had a any problems in the past but before Christmas it did drop to around -12ºC which could have been cold enough to freeze it in the garage... I'm hoping that Jaydee's on the money with the water pump, that's a lot easier and cheaper to fix than some of the other possibilities.... :-?

[Squashed_Fly]

Time for a fully heated garage?? 8-)

[Scotty]

Oh dear, it's gonna be expensive - checked the water pump, removed it, cleaned it all up and reconnected it to the hoses to test its leak-tightness, refilled the coolant system with water.... and watched it dribbling out of the sump drain hole into the tray that I'd put beneath it just in case... >:(

The good news is that the water pump is fine.... the bad news is that I'll spend tomorrow dropping the engine out of it instead of going off-roading >:( >:( >:( :'( :'( :'(

[Moo]

Oh bugger!! Thats not good news at all :(

[Nooj]

**** sauce, dude.

[Scotty]

Yep, the **** blizzard is blowing.... :'(

[Scotty]

Star and I got busy yesterday morning, stripping the bike down and removing the engine - it was quite a learning curve for Star and she did brilliantly..

I wish it was always as easy to move around as when it's this light...
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Barking_Toad/Bike%20stuff%202011/Stripdown13.jpg

Engine on the ramp, ready to be put into the cradle stand and be worked on...
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Barking_Toad/Bike%20stuff%202011/Stripdown10.jpg

I got to work, removing cam cover, camchain tensioner and the camshafts, had a look down the camchain tunnel and spotted the cause of the problems, a sodding great crack in the wall between the coolant chamber and the camchain tunnel in the cylinder head... ::)
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Barking_Toad/Bike%20stuff%202011/Stripdown21-annotated.jpg

Oh well, nothing to do but be philosophical and get to work sorting it out. In eleven years of owning trackbikes, I've never had any issues with storing them over winter with just water in the coolant systems, but this winter we were treated to the coldest December in decades and this is the result. **** happens I guess...

[Squashed_Fly]

I wish I was mechanically minded enough to be able to do stuff like that

[Uber Dave]

Damn, thats pretty unlucky mate. You going to stick some anti-freeze in this time round I guess?

[Scotty]

I'll put anti-freeze in it over the winter in future, but stick to water during the season when it's in use - you shouldn't use anti-freeze on-track as in the event of a spillage or leak, it stays slippery and doesn't dry off like neat water does - those are the race regs anyway, but given the numbers of road bikes used for trackdays it's unrealistic to expect normal trackday riders to be swapping their coolant every time they come on track...

[silly_simon]

Unlucky Scotty :(
if the engine casings are split apart is it not a job our very own Toph could have a look at ?

[jonnydangerous]

dam, second guess of "cracked block behind number one" that i text you was pretty close then... ;-)

ffffffffffffff.....(sucks breath in kind of sound).... thats gonna cost ya....

how about draining it over winter instead of leaving it with coolant in????....

[Jon_W]

Oh lala... that's not good. :(

Best cure is to keep the bike in the heated house...... :P

[Scotty]

I've been busy in the garage today, most of the jobs were dead easy, just a couple of tasks that were harder than they should have been... The inlet manifold rubbers are mounted in pairs with three M6 screws in each - one of them was so reluctant to come out it managed to destroy a T30 Torx bit on an impact driver, I had to cut a slot into it with a dremel and use a large straight bit to shift it in the end... >:( The only other difficulty was getting the valve spring seats out - stepped washers that sit beneath the valve springs - the surface tension from the remaining oil film beneath them was enough to make them very reluctant to come out, a magnet wouldn't shift them and fine-nosed pliers could barely grip the step... I managed it in the end by dribbling petrol onto them to break down the oil film and they eventually all came out. ::)

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Barking_Toad/Bike%20stuff%202011/IMG_0746.jpg

Any thoughts that the original head may have been repairable were dismissed by finding a second crack on the left hand side (behind an engine mount, not visible until the head was off the engine) and this one below that straddles the valve spring areas for Nos 2 & 3 cylinders...
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Barking_Toad/Bike%20stuff%202011/IMG_0747.jpg

Fortunately I've acquired another head and the original one is fully stripped bare now, so it's time to start building up the new one... 8-)

[Harry87]

Wondered where you were today. Looks like you've made good progress on this now. It's really helpful to see this kind of thing, as haven't seen damage caused by freezing water before.

[Scotty]

Bit of an update - after buying a head that I found needed the valve seats cutting and all the guides reaming out, I sent it back for MSS' engine guy to do it but he didn't manage to get a reamer despite waiting ages for his Snap-On rep to get one so he pulled the head off an engine of his own and Star and I drove to Colchester on Good Friday to collect it - rebuilt the engine and installed it this week, finished off connecting everything this afternoon, filled up the cooling system with water and left the sump drain plug out - nothing came out which was encouraging, so I put the drain plug back in and filled the engine with cheap oil to flush it through, started it and ran it for a couple of minutes and then drained it out - and go what looked like several litres of tea :'( :'( :'( Bollocks! Looks like it wasn't just the head that had cracked, the cylinder block had too, and unfortunately on this engine, the block is integral with the upper crankcase, so it needs new cases, or I buy a second hand engine... a quick look on ebay shows that even damaged engines are going for the best part of a grand :( So.... the engine's back out and on Friday I'm driving back to MSS in Colchester once again with it in the back of the car - they have a set of fresh crankcases and John the engine guy is going to build it for me - it won't be cheap, but I'll have pretty much a fresh engine so at least I'll get peace of mind with it, unlike a second hand one bought on faith...
I'll be riding Star's wee 400 at Odiham on Monday, unless anyone has a track bike that they could lend me..... ::)

[Gerry]

Bummer Simon :-/

But at least, as you say, you know the engine and most of it will have been re-built.

Your'e welcome to a nice little yellow SV, but I fear you would notice a little difference in performance ;)

Cheers
Gerry

[Bornagain]

Bit of an update - after buying a head that I found needed the valve seats cutting and all the guides reaming out, I sent it back for MSS' engine guy to do it but he didn't manage to get a reamer despite waiting ages for his Snap-On rep to get one so he pulled the head off an engine of his own and Star and I drove to Colchester on Good Friday to collect it - rebuilt the engine and installed it this week, finished off connecting everything this afternoon, filled up the cooling system with water and left the sump drain plug out - nothing came out which was encouraging, so I put the drain plug back in and filled the engine with cheap oil to flush it through, started it and ran it for a couple of minutes and then drained it out - and go what looked like several litres of tea :'( :'( :'( Bollocks! Looks like it wasn't just the head that had cracked, the cylinder block had too, and unfortunately on this engine, the block is integral with the upper crankcase, so it needs new cases, or I buy a second hand engine... a quick look on ebay shows that even damaged engines are going for the best part of a grand :( So.... the engine's back out and on Friday I'm driving back to MSS in Colchester once again with it in the back of the car - they have a set of fresh crankcases and John the engine guy is going to build it for me - it won't be cheap, but I'll have pretty much a fresh engine so at least I'll get peace of mind with it, unlike a second hand one bought on faith...
I'll be riding Star's wee 400 at Odiham on Monday, unless anyone has a track bike that they could lend me..... ::)


Take the Steely, come and collect when you can and i may even pop over on the road bike and see it in action at Odiham.
My tow bar's not being fitted 'til next Saturday so you'll have to collect it. She's all serviced, checked and tightened (curtessy of Colin) so she's good to go ;)

[Scotty]

Thanks for the offers guys, of the two yellow perils I'll choose Basil's Steelie, it's proper track prepped and it isn't his only bike (far from it...) 8-) 8-) 8-)
I got to MSS an hour before the engine guy showed up! I could have done with that hour in bed, I'm knackered now... ::)

[Scotty]

Final update on this saga.... after collecting the rebuilt engine a couple of weeks ago and putting it back in, I had a bit of a scare when, after filling it with the appropriate fluids and firing it up, the oil pressure light wouldn't go out. Another call to John at MSS was enlightening... "Did you just let it idle?" yes "Worst thing you could do, you have to hold it at a steady 3000rpm until the light extinguishes, it's necessary to run it that fast to get the oil pressure and flow up sufficiently to displace all the air from the oil galleries..." OK then... I must admit that I really didn't enjoy holding the engine at a steady 3000rpm with the red oil light glaring at me defiantly and the oil level in the sight window not dropping at all :o :o :o After what seemed like an eternity, the light suddenly went out and the engine note changed slightly and all was indeed good... until I noticed two water leaks, this time from outside the engine; a couple of pin-holes in the radiator and from the water pump... Jumping ****ing Jesus, will this never end? A quick raid on ebay secured a second hand radiator, which needed the fins straightening a fair bit (several hours patient work), but it was watertight, and a second-hand water pump which unfortunately wasn't (annoyingly there are no serviceable parts within the pump, the pump itself is the service level - the breaker will refund me for it though) so I had to order a brand new one (£179.90 incl. VAT) and fitted it just as Basil arrived to help me load up the van for Llandow.
It was more than a blessed relief to finally get the bike back together, running and fluid-tight at last... It ran beautifully at Llandow and the engine was sweet as anything and made plenty of power. I'll call John at MSS tomorrow to let him know 8-) 8-) 8-) Now I just have to get this bloody knee fixed... :'(

[Squashed_Fly]

Glad to hear it's up and running mate.

Sounds like it was a proper mare

[Jon_W]

Chriiissst. Never heard of having to run a "dry" engine so hard.... I'd have had my heart in my mouth the whole time doing that!!!

Glad it worked though! :)