View Full Version : Motorbike Crash help
supermancss
23-08-12, 04:05 PM
Hello one and all. I ask kindly for any assistance.
Last year in May 2011 I had a bike accident which I am currently in the process of trying to prove the council did a bad job in maintaining the road. If they had maintained the road as they should have then I wouldn't have crashed (or very likely not to have)
The area in question is on the Roundabout by The Lamb pub in Trowbridge. Just off county way/Mortimer street.
There was a large dip in the road which was in the middle of the three lanes. I was taking the bend with some lean and 'slid' down into the dip causing me to nearly drop the bike to the right. I managed to regain control and get it upright. But due to the panic I did a bad job and ended up being upright about a foot from the kerb. I obviously hit it and fell off causing major front end damage and damage to my leg.
I am wondering if anyone is familiar with the defect in the road and if so would they be willing to put it in writing. I would reward any kind offers of help with beer or similar should the claim ever get through court and I win the case.
The area has now been resurfaced outside the lamb and the council over the last year have got much better at maintaining roads actually!!
If you know any bikers in Trowbridge please pass on. I am finding it difficult to prove that the dip would cause a loss of control. I have proved the dip existed with other friends but It would be good coming from more bikers.
Many thanks for all who took the time to read.
Ash
supermancss
23-08-12, 04:14 PM
Two images which will help jog memories perhaps.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2639agy.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/vywsgy.jpg
that's a hell of a busy and multiple-entrance/exit junction to be taking "with some lean", enough to spit you off! Can't say that dip affected me on the bike there (I ride that regularly) I'm afraid mate :/ I suspect also the council would bring speed into the equation saying that at an appropriate speed for that section of road the dip shouldn't have caused any issues
supermancss
23-08-12, 04:37 PM
when I say 'lean' I didn't quite mean like that!
I was going approximately 20mph? Road was clear all ahead, I was left side of middle lane to swing around towards bythesea road.
A car came hammering down mortimer street and my attention was on that car, I braked slightly front brake. I slid into the dip and lost it in a panic brake I think. Happened very quick!
does that make a little more sense? or more on my side?!
470four
23-08-12, 04:37 PM
Ash - to take that corner with "some lean" on a pedestrian crossing, on a busy town-centre roundabout with many junctions was pretty fkn retarded! Like Very? ::)
I DOUBT you were doing 30mph, more than likely at age 21 riding like a dick for the bike and rider to end up where they were?
The only "defect" in this equation is in your brain. DONT ride like a dick in town.
Sympathy score: Minus 24. ;)
470four
23-08-12, 04:50 PM
Your little Paint-lines have the bike ending up in a TREE in the library car park and you ending up on top of a fence?
At "20mph"???
Purleeeease.... ;D ;D ;D
Thats not a road defect? Do you need a hand riding over the pavement bump when you get you bike off the driveway?
Buy a car for Crissakes and do us all a favour. I hope it does go to court? That would be pure comedy!
Phone the Jeremy Kyle show, they will be interested? :D
supermancss
23-08-12, 04:51 PM
EDIT: Lmao. The X bits are a key for my terrible drawing. I landed right near the kerb and the bike!! Can understand what you mean now, If my bike+me landed over there I would be doing 50 odd!!
seems that I may be a bit more bias than I thought I was!
It was early hours on a working day. I had seen a handful of cars on my 5minutes up until the crash. In town etc I am more sensible than the average in my opinion. It went wrong due to my actions after seeing the car. I should have braked as soon as I saw the car coming down towards the roundabout. But left it and braked hard after I didnt think it was going to stop. My only argument on my side would be had the road been flat I don't believe I would have crashed.
I have 1 witness statement from someone on the road at the time who saw the car coming down mortimer street saying it looked very fast in excess of 50mph and was revving very loudly.
In a honest opinion without bias I would say its 40% my fault 60% road.
sympathy score + a few more 470four ? :( ;D
Ash,
From your pictures it seems you were in the wrong lane if you were intending to go round to the right. You also mentioned using the front brake. Is it possible you realised you were in the wrong lane, leant over a bit too far to try and get into the correct lane, lost traction, panicked, touched the front brake and then went straight on to hit the curb?
Edit: Sorry, I have just realised I'm reading your key as the intended route. Forget the above lol.
supermancss
23-08-12, 04:55 PM
Hello snowy, I was in the middle lane to straight on towards bythesea road if you know the area. Front brake in hindsight shouldnt have been used to slow down whilst turning, lack of experience in using that rather than rear brake really. hence why I think 40% is rider error
Hello snowy, I was in the middle lane to straight on towards bythesea road if you know the area. Front brake in hindsight shouldnt have been used to slow down whilst turning, lack of experience in using that rather than rear brake really. hence why I think 40% is rider error
Yeah I know the road. I thought your "key" was the "intended" road. You have my sympathy over the accident not your drawing ;D
470four
23-08-12, 05:01 PM
You were going too fast, braked too hard and crashed your motorcycle.
Simples! Had fk all to do with the road surface?? Dont take up Motocross FFS! ;D
I'm afraid that if you lost control by using the front brake whilst banked over, its going to be 100% your fault. Sorry. You have already gone past the dip in the road anyway. I did the same 30 odd years ago so don't feel too bad. You learn from it.
470Four - you're a 40 year old experienced motorcyclist, Ash is 21 and learning. He only hurt himself and his bank balance. He's just trying to understand what went wrong - give the guy a break huh?
470four
23-08-12, 05:24 PM
? He asked for our opinion and got it. Truth hurts... ;)
Not expecting a placard demonstration over this one... ;) :D
? He asked for our opinion and got it. Truth hurts... ;)
Not expecting a placard demonstration over this one... ;) :D
Yeah, but like me you did misinterpret the diagram and you then jumped to whole load of incorrect conclusions ;D So your "truth" may infact not be the truth :) Peace out ;D
Some of the above comments are totally out of order, and uncalled for, we are all in the biking world together, and on this forum to help and advise one another, so if you can't help the lad or try and give him some of your knowledge ......keep your thoughts to yourself please!
( cleaned up version) :-X
goz1960
23-08-12, 07:04 PM
Some of the above comments are totally out of order, and uncalled for, we are all in the biking world together, and on this forum to help and advise one another, so if you can't help the lad or try and give him some of your knowledge ......keep your thoughts to yourself please!
( cleaned up version) :-X
+1
Give the lad a break.
silly_simon
23-08-12, 08:51 PM
Ash,
I do sympathise with you But in the 12 odd years riding a motorcycle with a full licence I can't tuthfully ever remember a 'dip' being there :(
Having said that I'm a blind fecker at the best of times and perhaps never noticed it before.
As for the council, Stick to you're guns mate and let it go all the way and they will cave in eventually, I know as I have recently won a personal injury claim with them after they finally admitted liability after the solicitor started court proceedures :)
wiltshire builders
23-08-12, 08:55 PM
Calling someone a 'retard' after they've just binned their bike is pretty low.
Anyway I doubt you'll see any compensation from the council. I think it's fair to say you mis-read the road and over braked causing the bike to stand up. This is pure physics and a completely natural reaction by you.
Until you understand the cause and effect of your input into the bike, might I suggest you go a little steady.
I had a horendous tankslapper caused by an uneven road, that resulted in me skidding down the road on my arse. If i'd been doing the speed limit it wouldn't have happened. Lesson learned. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Any front braking whilst leant over will cause the bike to sit up, loosing the ability to turn, add a bit of target fixation, looking at something thinking s**t im going to hit that, and you probably will, As for the road surface, the council have a duty of care, and should have records of regular inspections, you could always ask for these, as the surface is broken and uneven it could be considered as a contributory factor to the incident, its worth a go mate, whats the other option? cheers wes.
Senna(Dan)
23-08-12, 10:01 PM
One golden rule I have always lived by there is you need two styles of riding.
In town slow the heck down, make people enjoy the beauty of your bike.
In the country open her up but don't go nuts.
It has kept me safe and I have heard several coppers say this when I have been to presentations etc through work and bike meets.
bobf279
23-08-12, 10:21 PM
IIRC the bit of road where you show the dip is straight so you wouldn't have turned/leaned till you had passed it. Check it out on Google maps street view it shows the before repair road surface and looks pretty straight to me.
I don't think you can put much blame on the road surface sorry.
Ducatista
23-08-12, 10:24 PM
so if you can't help the lad or try and give him some of your knowledge
Ash, I'm a volunteer tutor and I do believe there are people that could help you with your observation and positioning (I get £10 contribution towards my costs for 3-5 hours coaching).
As for the council you are entitled to information under the freedom of Information Act.
However the council are not obliged to monitor 24 by 7 and fix all problems instantaneously.
If they can prove that they monitored the area and met the guidelines then you would not have a case as they are not expected to magically make all the roads perfect the instant a problem occurs.
I have looked into this before when I hit a pothole a dented the wheel on my bike. My gut feeling is that you are very unlikely to get anything from the council.
My advice is to try and improve your riding.
Don't take that as a criticism because we ALL need to do that. I've been doing it for 4 years now and I'm still going because it's a process of continunal improvement.
In the long run it could save you a lot of money and hassle but worse case it could save you from a life changing injury.
SupeRDel
23-08-12, 11:43 PM
In the old days we used to cock it up and came off our bikes. We learned a lesson from it
Have noticed now that people come off bikes and always try to blame someone else. Its never their own fault anymore.
A couple of years ago I tried claiming from Swindon Borough Council after a pothole (200mm square, 65mm deep) caused a big dent in the rear wheel of my road bike. They claimed to have inspected the stretch of road in question (between Liddington and Aldbourne) only 16 days previously and that the hole hadn't been there, and sent me a copy of the report. I could have enlisted the help of a couple of mates who are "with the roads" to fight the point, and would have done had I sustained an injury, but it would have been difficult to prove that the hole in question hadn't been there at the time of the inspection (I would refute strongly the possibility of it appearing over 16 days in August) but it wasn't worth the effort really. I got the rim straightened for about £65 in all.
The council has a legal duty to repair a dangerous defect once it has been reported to them. One of my mates "with the roads" says that in previous years they'd have paid up without arguing, but since the harsh Winters of the last couple of years they've tightened up considerably and now their policy is to dispute every claim in the hope that the plaintiff will give up and walk away - they just give the standard answer of "wasn't there when we looked", which is difficult to disprove. If you were to say "it's been there for months" it's your fault for not reporting it, simple as.
For this one, you'd better put it down to experience Ash, bikes can be fixed and people heal, hopefully a little wiser next time around. The true moral of the story is: If you see a pothole or a dangerous defect, REPORT IT!
wiltshire builders
24-08-12, 08:14 AM
A couple of years ago I tried claiming from Swindon Borough Council after a pothole (200mm square, 65mm deep) caused a big dent in the rear wheel of my road bike. They claimed to have inspected the stretch of road in question (between Liddington and Aldbourne) only 16 days previously and that the hole hadn't been there, and sent me a copy of the report. I could have enlisted the help of a couple of mates who are "with the roads" to fight the point, and would have done had I sustained an injury, but it would have been difficult to prove that the hole in question hadn't been there at the time of the inspection (I would refute strongly the possibility of it appearing over 16 days in August) but it wasn't worth the effort really. I got the rim straightened for about £65 in all.
The council has a legal duty to repair a dangerous defect once it has been reported to them. One of my mates "with the roads" says that in previous years they'd have paid up without arguing, but since the harsh Winters of the last couple of years they've tightened up considerably and now their policy is to dispute every claim in the hope that the plaintiff will give up and walk away - they just give the standard answer of "wasn't there when we looked", which is difficult to disprove. If you were to say "it's been there for months" it's your fault for not reporting it, simple as.
For this one, you'd better put it down to experience Ash, bikes can be fixed and people heal, hopefully a little wiser next time around. The true moral of the story is: If you see a pothole or a dangerous defect, REPORT IT!
IS THAT IT? No "pay attention to the road" or "you can't ride, get the bus"?
I've been waiting with baited breath for your response and I can tell you i'm sorely disapointed.
You've changed, man ;D
A couple of years ago I tried claiming from Swindon Borough Council after a pothole (200mm square, 65mm deep) caused a big dent in the rear wheel of my road bike. They claimed to have inspected the stretch of road in question (between Liddington and Aldbourne) only 16 days previously and that the hole hadn't been there, and sent me a copy of the report. I could have enlisted the help of a couple of mates who are "with the roads" to fight the point, and would have done had I sustained an injury, but it would have been difficult to prove that the hole in question hadn't been there at the time of the inspection (I would refute strongly the possibility of it appearing over 16 days in August) but it wasn't worth the effort really. I got the rim straightened for about £65 in all.
The council has a legal duty to repair a dangerous defect once it has been reported to them. One of my mates "with the roads" says that in previous years they'd have paid up without arguing, but since the harsh Winters of the last couple of years they've tightened up considerably and now their policy is to dispute every claim in the hope that the plaintiff will give up and walk away - they just give the standard answer of "wasn't there when we looked", which is difficult to disprove. If you were to say "it's been there for months" it's your fault for not reporting it, simple as.
For this one, you'd better put it down to experience Ash, bikes can be fixed and people heal, hopefully a little wiser next time around. The true moral of the story is: If you see a pothole or a dangerous defect, REPORT IT!
IS THAT IT? No "pay attention to the road" or "you can't ride, get the bus"?
I've been waiting with baited breath for your response and I can tell you i'm sorely disapointed.
You've changed, man ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
That made me chuckle :)
In all seriousness Scotty's right that if you see anything dangerous on the roads you should report it. This can be done via "Clarence" - which is the councils hotline (you can email to) for reporting issues. I have done it several times and to be fair to the Council they were out in all cases in under 24 hrs if not to fix straight away, but make safe. Leaving it for someone else to do results in no action and some poor sod finding out the hard way.
I still doubt the pothole in the pictures would have unsettled the bike that much unless some serious speed was being undertaken, plus its prior to the point where the turn would have been initiated anyway.
Put it down to experience and the positive side is that you were left in a position where you are physically able to learn from it.
IS THAT IT? No "pay attention to the road" or "you can't ride, get the bus"?
I've been waiting with baited breath for your response and I can tell you i'm sorely disapointed.
You've changed, man ;D
Haven't you heard Dan, I've mellowed with age... 8-)
It was a fairly typical "novice" mistake and berating the poor guy for it wouldn't help at all. Somebody's already had an unreasonable rant at him, so a reasonable one would have been pointless ;)
Haven't you heard Dan, I've mellowed with age... 8-)
Since the Minehead ride at the Chissy Garage?! ;)
As already stated by Ducatista you are entitled to details of the maintenance records from the relevant Highway Authority (it may not be WCC, it could be a private company). From these you will be able to establish if the defect was identified and what, if any action had been planned to rectify the problem (has it been repaired since your accident?).
One cautionary note, if the defect had occurred after a routine inspection but before your accident, if no one had reported it to the Highway Authority or Police (who would pass details on, they are not responsible for carriageway repairs) the Highway Authority’s defence would be they could not reasonably be expected to carry out a repair.
Good luck.
supermancss
24-08-12, 11:53 AM
the council state they inspect the highways every 3 months. They checked it 1 month before my accident and 2 months after.
I reported the incident a week after I came off there, informed them of the size of the defect etc.
They said before accident it was recognised, after the accident it had changed enough for them to begin plans to fix it. It's a total mess up on their behalf, its been there years and not noticeably changed. I would say it'll get worse each WINTER not May last year when it was hot!!
I never realised how deep it was until I measured it 4 weeks after my accident (when I could walk normal-ish!) the hole at deepest point was just under 2" deep. The length was approx 6foot long.
on a rather witty point about I maybe should have reported it previously.. If its located right near the council offices were the highways team drive over. They didn't report it at all either!
Im not overly bothered about injury compensation etc just damage to bike and having to fix it, took me forever as I'm new to bike mechanics!
I'm sorry Ash, I know you want to find a reason why you crashed, but in my opinion, based upon your evidence and description of what happened, I don't believe that under normal riding conditions, that road surface would have been the cause of your incident.
If it was then a high percentage of every other bike that went over the same piece of tarmac would also have ended up crashing. Is there any evidence of other accidents?
Personally I think you need to forget about blame and chalk it up to experience. Think about your own skills and observation as a mechanism for avoidance next time. Getting some training as Ducatista points out will help you as well without having to learn the real hard way.
supermancss
24-08-12, 12:40 PM
I am not doubting I am to blame really. I am trying to recoop my losses, clutching at straws I know. This happened over a year ago now, definitely more experienced and wise. I don't ride much at the moment as the engines still in bits after the gears blew up on me!
I will be picking it up next year with a view to do some assessed rides etc.
camera.op76
24-08-12, 12:46 PM
my nan once said, 'ah be jaysus - that kerb was in the road' ;D
I am not doubting I am to blame really. I am trying to recoop my losses, clutching at straws I know. This happened over a year ago now, definitely more experienced and wise. I don't ride much at the moment as the engines still in bits after the gears blew up on me!
I will be picking it up next year with a view to do some assessed rides etc.
Well, just remember that making a successfull claim against the local council simply means that its the Council Tax payers (i.e us) who would actually be paying for your claim. People tend to forget that bit when pursuing a claim against the council.
supermancss
24-08-12, 03:14 PM
Also pay a lot for people who happily sit on the dole with a free house and no council tax.
The economy/country has gone to the dogs, I'll take what I can of the council tax I pay really! Its always the smae majority who eat up benefits, public services etc.
I've paid enough tax to wiltshire council to cover my claim 10times over!!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.