View Full Version : Gutted isnt the word! Annoyed!
Hi all,
I am placing this as a warning to all. I bought a bike from on the internet and I have had nothing but issues with it! Clutch plates have gone which I need some help with so, Ive placed a thread on Technical Help / Riding tips & Training and my exhaust has gone and Ive got a little leak!
Cannot belive it! Had it 3 weeks (I havent even received my V5 yet ;)). This company were very nice at selling me the bike but did not respond to my emails and calls when it went bad!
I bought the bike for £1600 and my insurance on that came to nearly £2000! I just dont have the money to hand for extensive repairs!
What do I do? Do I scrap the bike (it runs and had an MOT and Tax) or sell it for someone for a project or do I keep it and sort the repairs out.
I can fix the exhaust this month, but the clutch plates is a new issue which was found out today. I dont know the price of this.
I am so, fed up. They sold me a complete pile of *****
All I want to do is get back to riding after my time off for my disability.
Talk about a downer lol
Thanks all
Maz
depends how much you like that particular bike, if its the bike for you then repair but if you do sell, be honest about the issues or list as spare/repair for sale.
hope you get sorted either way :)
Yeah, I am always honest.
I will be losing a lot of money on it if I sell it. This is due to the issues.
I was thinking of £600 due to the fact it still runs and that will has an MOT and tax also they are rare bikes now.
I am annoyed that people arnt honest when selling!
I suppose I am too honest thats my issue! ;)
Thanks
I was thinking of selling it next year in Sept when my restriction runs out.
Just I wasnt thinking of the amount it would cost me to fix it considering nothing was mentioned about anything when I bought it.
I can make a decision if I new a rough price of the clutch plate that will need to be replaced. If its going to cost about 200 thats ok but anything more then ill get rid.
What is the actual issue with the clutch?
I have problems with the rpm. Its like the engines rpm isnt matching the speed and its so slow then at about 50mpg the bike catches up and actually goes! Its like when someone doesnt change gear when they are meant to! Really loud...
The biting part of the clutch is nearly all the way out, I hardly need to touch it for it to move and the same with the changing of the gear.
cerruti
10-09-12, 03:55 PM
Does the Sale of Goods Act not apply? If you bought this bike (new or 2nd hand) from a business?
Might be a question for Ducatista, I think she works in something to do with legal things.
If I were you though, I would be pursuing the company I bought the bike from, even go to Trading Standards for help, rather than taking a massive loss on something that you have just bought that isn't fit for purpose.
Sorry to hear you got shafted tho :'(
Mitch9128
10-09-12, 03:57 PM
You have 6 months from date of sale, before then the dealer has to prove the faults were not there at point of sale, you need to contact this shower.
It says my warrenty is for 1 month only or 280 miles....
It says my warrenty is for 1 month only or 280 miles....
You still have your statutory rights irrespective of what the dealer told you abou warranty. This assumes its a dealer of some description and it wasn't a private sale. There's the distance selling legislation, as well as fit for purpose etc.
How did you pay them? Cash, credit card?
As Mitch says it sounds like the clutch is slipping and it may just need adjustment or a new cable anyway.
They are up in Manchester and I paid via my visa debit card.
I will visit Phil so, he can tell me what going on. Its done 13000 and not had the clutch plates changed so, it could be that however, the clutch cable would need doing as its rusty.
Senna(Dan)
10-09-12, 05:04 PM
How many miles have you done since picking it up?
You should be covered by trading standards as they haven't sold you a vehicle fit for purpose.
The plates should only need doing if it has a really hard life. The clucth cable should have been replaced if it was rusty prior to you purchasing it if the dealer was caring of his customers.
Failing that you could do what a member on another forum did, take the bike back to Manchester chain it somewhere outside the front legally and decorate it with the fact that he is a crap dealer and he should soon get in touch with you.
Thinking about scrapping it over a dodgy clutch is a bit of an over-reaction Maz - it probably needs a new cable, and at worst a new set of plates too, which Jon has found for less than £40 so you're probably looking at £60 maximum for parts (maybe a gasket as well on top of that). Did you test ride it before buying it, and wasn't the clutch issue apparent then?
It'll be ok with a little fettling, no worries 8-)
The clutch seemed ok. Pulling off was fine now its terrible just revs.
I was told that its going to cost me a days work £240 then my exhaust issue which is a few hours work from Phil. I was told that by a biker thats why I needed to know how much it was going to cost so, I cpuld make a decision based on facts.
Thanks all.
Not trying to defend the seller here but I do think before jumping in its only fair to discuss it properly with them.
Bear in mind at £1,600 they probably haven't made much money on it, and if it test rode OK could/did they even know it had the faults?
At the end of the day it's a second hand bike and things go wrong as annoying as it is.
I managed to get through to the seller but got through to the guy who actually sold me the bike.
He is going to do something, he said he will ring me back.
The other guy I spoke to didnt want to know and I sent emails and they dodnt want to know.
Its hard to discuss something that they wont hear. It has been a learning experience for me.
That's great news - I think picking up the phone can often be a better way to resolve an issue like this.
Hope you get it sorted fairly :)
Mitch9128
10-09-12, 06:21 PM
If they refuse to fix it, contact consumer direct. They will help you pen a letter, which you send signed for, if still no joy, then it's fix it and small claims. Either way contact consumer direct, irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
Thank you!
I am looking forward to the conversation tomorrow with them to be honest.
I have only done 203 miles since I purchased the bike which was on the 02/08/2012. Apparently they can refuse to fix it if it costs too much so, I can then ask for a partial refund of the bike.
Still not great but at least its something. After I rang I written an email and sent it which bounced back as the companies email address isnt working.
However, I can prove its there email due to their website just in case they get funny.
Thanks all, I just want it sorted now and with having no mechanical knowledge on bikes, I havent got a clue. :o
Thank you!
I am looking forward to the conversation tomorrow with them to be honest.
I have only done 203 miles since I purchased the bike which was on the 02/08/2012. Apparently they can refuse to fix it if it costs too much so, I can then ask for a partial refund of the bike.
Still not great but at least its something. After I rang I written an email and sent it which bounced back as the companies email address isnt working.
However, I can prove its there email due to their website just in case they get funny.
Thanks all, I just want it sorted now and with having no mechanical knowledge on bikes, I havent got a clue. :o
If I was you I'd make sure you know exactly what's wrong with the bike and the have some quotes to fix those faults before contacting the seller, get some quotes in writing for the work required.
I think you'll have a much stronger case that way.
If you are/may be considering legal action confirm what you've said in writing to the seller using a recorded delivery letter rather than email.
If you do go as far as small claims court you need to show the judge you've been as reasonable as possible in allowing the seller to resolve the issues or you'll just waste your court fee.
Mitch9128
10-09-12, 07:43 PM
... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/
Mitch9128
10-09-12, 07:54 PM
You HAVE to give the seller opportunity to rectify the faults though, if you don't, you won't have a leg to stand on.
Yes, I am waiting for them. Once I do tomorrow I will know where I go from there.
Thanks all x
*cough* trading standards *cough*
A few years ago I bought a car on eBay (yes, I KNOW!) from what seemed like a reputable car sales place in Reading.
Anyway, long story short, a con rod snapped 6 weeks after I bought it and the piston smashed through the head - the engine was fubar'd.
I contacted the seller who said he was 'willing to help me look for a replacement engine' - about £4000 No warentee was implied or offered by the seller. I rang around and spoke to trading standards. I was advised to call him back and quote the words 'trading standards' & 'my solicitor' in the same sentence, which I did, low and behold, the car was collected within 24 hours and I was refunded in full. ::)
Hope you get it resolved asap :-/
... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.
silly_simon
10-09-12, 10:12 PM
Whereabouts are you Maz ? as you mention someone called Phil :-? I assume you mean Phil Stokes, Westbury ??
I only ask as Phil tends to be a little on the dear side as Bikes are no longer his bread and butter income :(
If you are local/ In Westbury pop it round one evening or the weekend and I will have a look/Listen at it for you :)
Cheers
Simon
Yes, Phil in Westbury.
I am juat waiting for tomorrow morning now!
Hopefully they will do something however I read that they will only repair up to 180 wprth of damage! However I know this will be more than that!
I hope they dont say they cant help or get funny about it. I dont have the means to ride it up their to Manchester and it will mpst likely not make it anyway. I will use the trading standard and solicitor thing if he gets funny.
I dont deal will with confrontation.
Mitch9128
11-09-12, 06:59 AM
... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
My view, and I'm not a solicitor although I have studied law as part of what I do, is that the site is misleading. It doesn't refer to the actual relevant legislation, or any section of the legislation which is the only thing you can rely on. My memory isnt that bad and I seem to recall the actual legislation refers to 'reasonable' but I certainly dont recall reasonable time periods being defined.
Take a practical example - a dealer has an old p/ex hanging around say a 50cc moped and says you can have it for £200 (and that is a real example by the way) 5 1/2 months later you've covered 6,000 miles on it (and that isnt a real example) and the engine goes bang do you really think any Court in England is going to tell the seller that the buyer can have a refund?
Just to let you all know.
Spoken to them quoted the sales of goods act, trading standards and distance selling regs and they are going to pick the bike up and repair it and bring it back all free of charge as a "Good Will Gesture" cough cough!
Result! I also qouted one of the parts that needs replacing (the part no and price at £356.62) just for one of the probs and he shut up! ;D ;D
;D
WOOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahaha I love this result. Brilliant! :D
if you are comfortable with them doing that then agree, otherwise insist on a full refund.
Mitch9128
11-09-12, 09:57 AM
... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
My view, and I'm not a solicitor although I have studied law as part of what I do, is that the site is misleading. It doesn't refer to the actual relevant legislation, or any section of the legislation which is the only thing you can rely on. My memory isnt that bad and I seem to recall the actual legislation refers to 'reasonable' but I certainly dont recall reasonable time periods being defined.
Take a practical example - a dealer has an old p/ex hanging around say a 50cc moped and says you can have it for £200 (and that is a real example by the way) 5 1/2 months later you've covered 6,000 miles on it (and that isnt a real example) and the engine goes bang do you really think any Court in England is going to tell the seller that the buyer can have a refund?
Your view is irrelevant in law, here is the actual legislation from parliament:
Where faulty goods are returned within the first six months of purchase, the consumer has the benefit of a presumption that the goods were faulty when delivered (i.e. the
2 Section 2 , Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994
3 Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
4
consumer will be entitled to a remedy). If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.
Yes, I am happy with it because its a motorbike I need.
Its 33BHP and because of my heigh and disability its the perfect bike (until my restriction ends lol).
I am so, pleased. I suppose its about having confidence to challenge and knowing something about the sales of goods act ect which I got from fellow WBs.
Thank you to all for the help, I really appriciate it!
Maz
Mitch9128
11-09-12, 10:01 AM
Good news Maz, and no more than you are entitled to.
well that's good then. Hope it's resolved quickly hun :)
Last Train
11-09-12, 10:03 AM
Excellent
8-)
Yes, same.
I just loved it when he said as a good will gesture after the guy who sold me the bike ended up passing the phone over to someone else!
Obviously couldnt handle what I was saying.
Also I took a screen print of the original advert and sent it to them last night, where it states its a great little bike ect! ;D
I have to say, it was a phone call I have never made before and they actually said that they received the email a few weeks ago which stated that I had broken down but they didnt do anything and when I rang them didnt do anything!
Its all about assertivness!
Thanks all! ;)
... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
My view, and I'm not a solicitor although I have studied law as part of what I do, is that the site is misleading. It doesn't refer to the actual relevant legislation, or any section of the legislation which is the only thing you can rely on. My memory isnt that bad and I seem to recall the actual legislation refers to 'reasonable' but I certainly dont recall reasonable time periods being defined.
Take a practical example - a dealer has an old p/ex hanging around say a 50cc moped and says you can have it for £200 (and that is a real example by the way) 5 1/2 months later you've covered 6,000 miles on it (and that isnt a real example) and the engine goes bang do you really think any Court in England is going to tell the seller that the buyer can have a refund?
Your view is irrelevant in law, here is the actual legislation from parliament:
Where faulty goods are returned within the first six months of purchase, the consumer has the benefit of a presumption that the goods were faulty when delivered (i.e. the
2 Section 2 , Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994
3 Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
4
consumer will be entitled to a remedy). If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.
I still cant see where in the legislation it states a blanket 6 months. We'll agree to disgree.
Just to let you all know.
Spoken to them quoted the sales of goods act, trading standards and distance selling regs and they are going to pick the bike up and repair it and bring it back all free of charge as a "Good Will Gesture" cough cough!
Result! I also qouted one of the parts that needs replacing (the part no and price at £356.62) just for one of the probs and he shut up! ;D ;D
;D
FANTASTIC NEWS :) :)
I think a firm call generally does the trick.
At least you didn't have to do what I did - I bought a car a few years ago which was ''not fit for purpose''. I called the garage to agree an amicable settlement and was told to #### off on the phone by the seller :o Not best pleased I ordered a tow truck, stuck a note inside the car on the windscreen explaining what had happened in bold letters and got the tow truck to deposit the car on the forecourt and left it there locked up...got a full refund later than day ;D
Just to let you all know.
Spoken to them quoted the sales of goods act, trading standards and distance selling regs and they are going to pick the bike up and repair it and bring it back all free of charge as a "Good Will Gesture" cough cough!
Result! I also qouted one of the parts that needs replacing (the part no and price at £356.62) just for one of the probs and he shut up! ;D ;D
;D
FANTASTIC NEWS :) :)
I think a firm call generally does the trick.
At least you didn't have to do what I did - I bought a car a few years ago which was ''not fit for purpose''. I called the garage to agree an amicable settlement and was told to #### off on the phone by the seller :o Not best pleased I ordered a tow truck, stuck a note inside the car on the windscreen explaining what had happened in bold letters and got the tow truck to deposit the car on the forecourt and left it there locked up...got a full refund later than day ;D
Wow, thats great! ;D I mean the whole placing the car of the forecourt!
Not many think of that like! I would have loved to be a fly on the wall that day!
Mitch9128
11-09-12, 10:40 AM
... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
My view, and I'm not a solicitor although I have studied law as part of what I do, is that the site is misleading. It doesn't refer to the actual relevant legislation, or any section of the legislation which is the only thing you can rely on. My memory isnt that bad and I seem to recall the actual legislation refers to 'reasonable' but I certainly dont recall reasonable time periods being defined.
Take a practical example - a dealer has an old p/ex hanging around say a 50cc moped and says you can have it for £200 (and that is a real example by the way) 5 1/2 months later you've covered 6,000 miles on it (and that isnt a real example) and the engine goes bang do you really think any Court in England is going to tell the seller that the buyer can have a refund?
Your view is irrelevant in law, here is the actual legislation from parliament:
Where faulty goods are returned within the first six months of purchase, the consumer has the benefit of a presumption that the goods were faulty when delivered (i.e. the
2 Section 2 , Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994
3 Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
4
consumer will be entitled to a remedy). If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.
I still cant see where in the legislation it states a blanket 6 months. We'll agree to disgree.
No we won't, you're being obtuse. The fact it states the onus is on the seller to prove the fault wasn't there at point of sale in the first 6 months, is in fact an implied 6 month warranty.
http://www.saconsumerprotectionact.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=191
... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
My view, and I'm not a solicitor although I have studied law as part of what I do, is that the site is misleading. It doesn't refer to the actual relevant legislation, or any section of the legislation which is the only thing you can rely on. My memory isnt that bad and I seem to recall the actual legislation refers to 'reasonable' but I certainly dont recall reasonable time periods being defined.
Take a practical example - a dealer has an old p/ex hanging around say a 50cc moped and says you can have it for £200 (and that is a real example by the way) 5 1/2 months later you've covered 6,000 miles on it (and that isnt a real example) and the engine goes bang do you really think any Court in England is going to tell the seller that the buyer can have a refund?
Your view is irrelevant in law, here is the actual legislation from parliament:
Where faulty goods are returned within the first six months of purchase, the consumer has the benefit of a presumption that the goods were faulty when delivered (i.e. the
2 Section 2 , Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994
3 Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
4
consumer will be entitled to a remedy). If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.
I still cant see where in the legislation it states a blanket 6 months. We'll agree to disgree.
No we won't. The fact it states the onus is on the seller to prove the fault wasn't there at point of sale in the first 6 months, is in fact an implied 6 month warranty.
http://www.saconsumerprotectionact.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=191
Umm fine it we were talking about South Africa ::)
Copy and paste the legislation which applies in England and you will have my humble apologies but until then, no we dont agree.
Not that it matters as Maz has a great resolution here.
I deal with tax legislation all the time and rarely trust things I see on the net which attempt to summarise and intepret legislation.
Just to let you all know.
Spoken to them quoted the sales of goods act, trading standards and distance selling regs and they are going to pick the bike up and repair it and bring it back all free of charge as a "Good Will Gesture" cough cough!
Result! I also qouted one of the parts that needs replacing (the part no and price at £356.62) just for one of the probs and he shut up! ;D ;D
;D
FANTASTIC NEWS :) :)
I think a firm call generally does the trick.
At least you didn't have to do what I did - I bought a car a few years ago which was ''not fit for purpose''. I called the garage to agree an amicable settlement and was told to #### off on the phone by the seller :o Not best pleased I ordered a tow truck, stuck a note inside the car on the windscreen explaining what had happened in bold letters and got the tow truck to deposit the car on the forecourt and left it there locked up...got a full refund later than day ;D
Wow, thats great! ;D I mean the whole placing the car of the forecourt!
Not many think of that like! I would have loved to be a fly on the wall that day!
It was brilliant.
The nice saleman that actually told me to f### ### when I called them when I had been nothing but polite and courteous on the phone didnt even have the bottle to come and see me face to face.
Daft thing was I would have happily agreed a fair settlement with them; I wasnt after a full refund but being told to #### ### made me see red!
The truck driver thought it was brilliant too ;D ;D
Mitch9128
11-09-12, 10:57 AM
... irrespective of the cost of the bike you have 6 months implied warranty.
Really - its been a while now since I studied law but is that a blanket 6 months for all second hand bike sales? What legislation does that derive from?
Sale of goods act 1979, my you are old :P
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/
Cheeky monkey! No I'm not THAT old. I think you'll find that the actual legislation doesnt quote a time limit/period. Hopefully Maz will get an amicable resolution though.
I think you will find, if you took the time to read it, it actually quotes 6 months in bold letters. Not just that link, but Google sale of goods act and it is quite clear on the 6 months time limit.
Six months...and counting
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
My view, and I'm not a solicitor although I have studied law as part of what I do, is that the site is misleading. It doesn't refer to the actual relevant legislation, or any section of the legislation which is the only thing you can rely on. My memory isnt that bad and I seem to recall the actual legislation refers to 'reasonable' but I certainly dont recall reasonable time periods being defined.
Take a practical example - a dealer has an old p/ex hanging around say a 50cc moped and says you can have it for £200 (and that is a real example by the way) 5 1/2 months later you've covered 6,000 miles on it (and that isnt a real example) and the engine goes bang do you really think any Court in England is going to tell the seller that the buyer can have a refund?
Your view is irrelevant in law, here is the actual legislation from parliament:
Where faulty goods are returned within the first six months of purchase, the consumer has the benefit of a presumption that the goods were faulty when delivered (i.e. the
2 Section 2 , Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994
3 Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002
4
consumer will be entitled to a remedy). If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.
I still cant see where in the legislation it states a blanket 6 months. We'll agree to disgree.
No we won't. The fact it states the onus is on the seller to prove the fault wasn't there at point of sale in the first 6 months, is in fact an implied 6 month warranty.
http://www.saconsumerprotectionact.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=191
Umm fine it we were talking about South Africa ::)
Copy and paste the legislation which applies in England and you will have my humble apologies but until then, no we dont agree.
Not that it matters as Maz has a great resolution here.
I deal with tax legislation all the time and rarely trust things I see on the net which attempt to summarise and intepret legislation.
Buggers, OK here, http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_problems_with_the_car_you_bought_e/the_car_you_bought_is_faulty.htm
This is from Citizens advice that is linked from the Direct.gov consumer rights site.
[/quote]
Buggers, OK here, http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_problems_with_the_car_you_bought_e/the_car_you_bought_is_faulty.htm
This is from Citizens advice that is linked from the Direct.gov consumer rights site.[/quote]
That's still not the actual legislation - it's an interpretation and I note quite a few references to ''you may get' in it too ::)
I honestly do not believe their is any clause in the legislation which categorically states this six month time period.
Think about it, it would be unjust and impractical.
Prove me wrong with the actual legislation.
Mitch9128
11-09-12, 11:29 AM
Nikki are you a dealer? I really can't see how protection for consumers is unfair. I have already posted the relevant words from it, but feel free www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN02239.pdf See 1.2 Implied terms.
Nikki are you a dealer? I really can't see how protection for consumers is unfair. I have already posted the relevant words from it, but feel free www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN02239.pdf See 1.2 Implied terms.
Dealer no ;D ;D ;D Accountant hence why I spend so much time reading tax legislation ;) :)
Sure you'll agree its getting a wee bit boring now....I stand by what I said and you still havent copied and pasted the actual legislation just links to interpretations and guidance.
Last word from me - I dont think any legislation gives the categoric 6 month period you claim but copy and paste the actual legislation, prove me wrong, and I'll apologise and accept what you say. :)
Mitch9128
11-09-12, 11:59 AM
You're trying to weakly link being an accountant to having greater knowledge of consumer law, nonsense I'm not going to cut and paste legislation, any fool can find the law on the internet, and what rights the consumer goods act affords them. The parliament link states this act, and indeed mentions the 6 month implied warranty several times.
you two, seriously.. http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10172/smiley-face-popcorn.gif
You're trying to weakly link being an accountant to having greater knowledge of consumer law, nonsense I'm not going to cut and paste legislation, any fool can find the law on the internet, and what rights the consumer goods act affords them. The parliament link states this act, and indeed mentions the 6 month implied warranty several times.
No not at all - you stated a 6 month time limit which I dont think exists.
Their is so much incorrect information on the net and it's not helpful to anyone.
The point I was making is that very often people read legislation, misinterpret it, mis-quote it and it gets posted all over the net.
I'm not a legal expert and I'm more than happy to be proven wrong. :)
you two, seriously.. http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10172/smiley-face-popcorn.gif
;D ;D
I'm getting bored now though.
We need a WB solicitor :)
Mitch9128
11-09-12, 12:19 PM
Stubborn to the last, ok from the sale of goods act http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
1)This section applies if—
(a)the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and
(b)the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.
(2)If this section applies, the buyer has the right—
(a)under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or
(b)under and in accordance with section 48C below—
(i)to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
(ii)to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.
(3)For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.
This can and is translated by trading standards and consumer law as any faults which occur within 6 months of purchase are presumed to have been there at point of sale, unless the seller can prove otherwise.
cerruti
11-09-12, 12:21 PM
Well done Maz, brilliant result!
If I can make one little suggestion though...
Agree in writing what needs to be repaired/replaced on the bike, and also agree a time frame and also that they will deliver the bike back to you FOC.
Im sure this dealer is 100% honourable ( ::)) but you don't want your bike back with them for 3 months and then find you have to collect the bike yourself and it's only been partially fixed.
Edited to add:
I would also photograph the bike from every possible angle, and photograph any existing damage. Write up any existing damage and get the dealer to sign it when he collects it, therefore if anything happens to the bike while it's back in their care, you have it documented.... Call me cynical, I can't help it sorry ;D
Stubborn to the last, ok from the sale of goods act http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
1)This section applies if—
(a)the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and
(b)the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.
(2)If this section applies, the buyer has the right—
(a)under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or
(b)under and in accordance with section 48C below—
(i)to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
(ii)to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.
(3)For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.
This can and is translated by trading standards and consumer law as any faults which occur within 6 months of purchase are presumed to have been there at point of sale, unless the seller can prove otherwise.
Thank you Mitch :)
That's good to know and I do appreciate you posting.
Told you I was VERY HAPPY to be proven wrong I am no legal expert. :)
Well done Maz, brilliant result!
If I can make one little suggestion though...
Agree in writing what needs to be repaired/replaced on the bike, and also agree a time frame and also that they will deliver the bike back to you FOC.
Im sure this dealer is 100% honourable ( ::)) but you don't want your bike back with them for 3 months and then find you have to collect the bike yourself and it's only been partially fixed.
Edited to add:
I would also photograph the bike from every possible angle, and photograph any existing damage. Write up any existing damage and get the dealer to sign it when he collects it, therefore if anything happens to the bike while it's back in their care, you have it documented.... Call me cynical, I can't help it sorry ;D
I'll second that ...being cynical ;) :)
Stubborn to the last, ok from the sale of goods act http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
1)This section applies if—
(a)the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and
(b)the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.
(2)If this section applies, the buyer has the right—
(a)under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or
(b)under and in accordance with section 48C below—
(i)to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
(ii)to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.
(3)For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.
This can and is translated by trading standards and consumer law as any faults which occur within 6 months of purchase are presumed to have been there at point of sale, unless the seller can prove otherwise.
Thank you Mitch :)
That's good to know and I do appreciate you posting.
Told you I was VERY HAPPY to be proven wrong I am no legal expert. :)
Bloody glad I dont make my living selling second hand bikes though.
Mitch9128
11-09-12, 12:35 PM
There are unscrupulous dealers out there, plenty who ignore the law, and will wriggle out of repairing a vehicle.
e.g.
I bought an Espace a couple of years back, the injectors started leaking, at first the dealer argued they were service items, and it was not until consumer direct were involved he took action. Dealer took it back several times to repair, but they still leaked, at the 6 month point he refunded our money, he wriggled at first, but came good in the end, thanks to consumer law.
Second issue, bought a Zafira last year, the dealer ( a large and well know VAG dealer in Cheltenham) is an utter swine, point blank refusing any responsibilities over issues, and pointing us at the 3rd party warranty he gave with the car. Luckily the warranty was good, but we are still out of pocket with excess' and higher hourly rate charges. Trading standards are currently trying to take out an injunction to stop him trading until all (there are many unhappy customers) issues are resolved.
Yes, I will.
I have alreay recorded the telephone conversation.
I will do a video for the damage to where it is.
I will write them a list of the issues but also ask if they can check over the whole bike for problems. This way if they do that we can ensure the bike wont come back with issues again!
I will ask how long it takes (thats a good question)
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