WARNING

[wiltshire builders]

Some @sshole farmer has dragged mud on to the road at the bottom of derry hill, Chippenham.
It starts right on the apex going west bound (chippenham side) just outside the lysley arms so you wont see it until you commited to the corner.

If you're heading that way, watch out because the gormless farmer isn't!

[wheelers]

also comming over Gastard hill from Harp and Crown towards Shaw, as you start into the twisties at the top to the quarry entrance, more mud, admitted there is a sign but not lit.

[Ducatista]

so you wont see it until you commited to the corner

Rule 126 - Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.

But I agree not very helpful and thanks for the warning.

[redken1]

so you wont see it until you commited to the corner

Rule 126 - Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear.

But I agree not very helpful and thanks for the warning.

All well in good in theory, but in my past experience it can be very difficult to see mud on the road on a dark winter’s night.

[SupeRDel]

Farmer on Lysley bend has put a big sign out with "mud on Road" before the bend.

We live in a rural location and farmers going about their business is something you have to look out for.

[redken1]

Advice for Farmers downloaded from the Wiltshire Council website.

•Do everything possible to prevent mud being deposited on the road. This includes cleaning mud from vehicles, as far as practicable, before they are taken onto the road. The fact that cleaning mud off tractors and attachments is commercially inconvenient may not be a defence in law.
•Only use signs that are authorised. The recommended sign shows the ‘Slippery Road’ triangle with ‘Mud on Road’ sub plate. If appropriate, the ‘Men at Work’ sign should be used. Signs must be at least 750mm.. Make sure they are positioned to give maximum visibility and warning to other road users.
•Clean the road as necessary during the working day and always at the end of the working day.
•Ensure that labour and equipment is available and is suitable for the soil and weather conditions present.
•Where a contractor is used, ensure that prior agreement is reached on who is responsible for mud on road issues (signage, cleaning etc) and ensure that adequate public liability insurance is in place.

[wiltshire builders]

Farmer on Lysley bend has put a big sign out with "mud on Road" before the bend.

We live in a rural location and farmers going about their business is something you have to look out for.
Haha nice one! Maybe this comment should be moved to the muppet section.

[8_ball]

I don't know ........why can't farmers just levertate across the field.... 8-)

[Col]

pmsl 'authorised sign' ffs!!!

signs for everything these days---I like 'bend' ones best right when you are in the bend :D :D brilliant

See some nonsense signs have appeared informing all and sundry that the street lights will be off between 12 and 6 or somat ....wow!!!!

Down a local lane water has been going over the road for months-about 15-20 foot wide--of course council not been along to dig out ditch or anything so with this icy weather they sent a gimp out to put an 'ice' sign either side ;D ;D...

..I do enjoy having to pay for these council jokers--worth every penny ;D

[wheelers]

comming out of leafield ind est, there are signs up (home made) danger sheep on the road !! wonder what they are riding,

[Ducatista]

it can be very difficult to see mud on the road on a dark winter’s night

So what are you going to do about it?

A) Ignore this potential hazard that all your experience tells you might be there and just pretend it isn't.
B) Adjust your speed accordingly to take account of what all your experience tells you might be there.
C) Avoid riding at night
D) Upgrade your lighting.

[redken1]

it can be very difficult to see mud on the road on a dark winter’s night

So what are you going to do about it?

A) Ignore this potential hazard that all your experience tells you might be there and just pretend it isn't.
B) Adjust your speed accordingly to take account of what all your experience tells you might be there.
C) Avoid riding at night
D) Upgrade your lighting.



Ducatista, I would implement precautionary measure B. Not so easy however, when riding on unfamiliar roads at night and faced with a hazard such as a sea of mud mid-corner, as described by Dan.

In addition to the above, I would contact the Farmer/landowner responsible for depositing the mud on the road, politely drawing his/her attention to the potential hazard and the possible consequences of taking no action to remove it. Again, in a polite manner, I would remind them of their legal responsibilities in relation to cleaning the road on completion of operations.

The option to lodge a formal complaint with the police/LA is there should the offending farmer/landowner fail to make any effort to remove the mud.

IMO, the life of a biker is far more important than any inconvenience caused to a farmer/landowner for a short period at the end of the working day.


Extracts from the NFU website;

When field conditions become wetter, farmers must take care to avoid tractor and trailer wheels depositing mud on roads. This can result in a hazard to other road users and as well as the obvious insurance claim issues, has the potential to lead to serious injuries and death.
While most farmers are keenly aware of the risks associated with mud on roads, there is still some confusion about the law in this area and farmers' responsibilities to other road users.
Depositing mud on the road is an offence under the Highways Act. It is the legal responsibility of the farmer to ensure that every precaution is taken to avoid any mud being carried off the field. Accepting that in cultivating and harvesting operations some mud will inevitably end up on the road, it is important to make arrangements to remove it immediately.

[wiltshire builders]

Just like to point out that on Friday last week I had to drive a tracked excavator down a residential street and it was caked in mud.
I cleaned as much off as possible before and then spent half an hour cleaning up the mess on the road.
This is part of my job and a legal requirement. Why farmers think they're exempt and that the onus is put on the road user is beyond me.
There seems to be a deeply ingrained arogance in the farming comunity where they feel their job is harder/more important than anyone elses.

[redken1]

Just like to point out that on Friday last week I had to drive a tracked excavator down a residential street and it was caked in mud.
I cleaned as much off as possible before and then spent half an hour cleaning up the mess on the road.
This is part of my job and a legal requirement. Why farmers think they're exempt and that the onus is put on the road user is beyond me.
There seems to be a deeply ingrained arogance in the farming comunity where they feel their job is harder/more important than anyone elses.

The old ‘red herring’ ‘Townies don’t understand the rural way of life’ argument which often pops up from the farming community, and was used by the hunting fraternity at the time of the fox hunting debate, doesn’t wash with me I’m afraid.

I understand very well that mud on the road is no different to diesel spillages in terms of the potential risk to all road users, especially bikers, and could cause accidents resulting in serious injuries or death. Dan, farmers get away with it because too many of us accept/tolerate it.

[Geordie Stu]

I'm not 100% on this. However, I read somewhere that the Farmer is liable for cleaning the road as it is his land that is on the road therefore, liable. Like I said not 100% sure on the exact ruling.... ::)

[Moo]

I'm not 100% on this. However, I read somewhere that the Farmer is liable for cleaning the road as it is his land that is on the road therefore, liable. Like I said not 100% sure on the exact ruling.... ::)

I'm fairly sure you are right on this as I managed to claim against a local farmer quite a few years ago when I ended up in the hedge.

I was coming back home on my XT350 in the dark and the back started to slide which didn't alarm me too much until the front did the same and I ended up in the ditch. I knew who the farmer was and called him to tell him about the state of the road at which point he laughed. He stopped laughing when the police turned up and dragged him out of bed to clean it up after nearly putting their car in the ditch :)

The damage wasn't that much but as he thought it was so funny I claimed against him and got every single scratch fixed, new helmet, gloves, boots, jacket etc etc. That bit made me smile, a little bit!

[Conehead]

I'm not 100% on this. However, I read somewhere that the Farmer is liable for cleaning the road as it is his land that is on the road therefore, liable. Like I said not 100% sure on the exact ruling.... ::)

I'm fairly sure you are right on this as I managed to claim against a local farmer quite a few years ago when I ended up in the hedge.

I was coming back home on my XT350 in the dark and the back started to slide which didn't alarm me too much until the front did the same and I ended up in the ditch. I knew who the farmer was and called him to tell him about the state of the road at which point he laughed. He stopped laughing when the police turned up and dragged him out of bed to clean it up after nearly putting their car in the ditch :)

The damage wasn't that much but as he thought it was so funny I claimed against him and got every single scratch fixed, new helmet, gloves, boots, jacket etc etc. That bit made me smile, a little bit!


Good one. 8-) 8-)

[Ducatista]

I would implement precautionary measure B. Not so easy however, when riding on unfamiliar roads at night and faced with a hazard such as a sea of mud mid-corner

Ken - I'm trying to understand what you are getting at here. Presumably you know the roads are unfamiliar and you also know it's night so there's no reason those factors shouldn't be planned in.

The last time I looked mud was brown and roads were black/grey and there was no trouble telling the difference with a headlight especially if there was a "sea" of it.

Are you saying you can't work out how far you can see there is clear road? So you're struggling with assesing the risk?
If it's on a corner I would have thought that day or night you know exactly how far round it you can see.
Or
Are you saying you can assess the risk but find it hard to ride at a speed consistent with stopping in that distance?

I admit I find the latter hard (I suspect we all do), but I'd like to get to the bottom of what you are getting at because currently it makes no sense.

You either decide to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear and be largely safe OR you decide to take a chance regarding what's round the corner.

In the first case you stop before the mud, in the second you blame the farmer - which doesn't really help if you've been run over in the process.

If you find things difficult to see at night (I do) then of course you have to factor that it.
Personally I am short-sighted, long sighted and I have astigmatism and I don't think I see well at night, but I can still tell when I can still distinguish between when I am satisfied the road is clear and when I'm not even if my vision is not as good as other people's.

[Ducatista]

As a biker with 36 years experience I could see how mud on the road mid-corner could catch an unsuspecting rider out.

because they are going too fast to stop in the distance they can see to be clear?
Is that what you are saying?
It's unfortuante if there is a sea of mud in the wrong place I agree and we all have to learn, but if they can't stop in time it's something they could have avoided if they ridden in accordance wiht the highway code right?
That's a choice right?
Of course it's more difficult when you're inexperienced, everything is.
Do you think we should not discuss it.
Personally I think it's worth if if ONE single person perhaps considers it.


but don’t make assumptions about my riding behaviour

I have only gone on what you have said.

If you are saying it's not easy all the time, then I agree (I've been practicing since 1986 and still going :)

[Conehead]

Out of interest, who would be responsible for the mud on the road during the Dorset steam festival.

[redken1]

Not quite sure what happened here - I seem to have got your posts mixed up Ducatista, I think I deleted my earlier post somehow when editing it - nevermind.

Of course I think we should discuss it and can,t understand why you would suggest otherwise.

We will have to agree to disagree about the level of visibility of brown mud on a black/grey surface at night. In the context of my post, I think ‘Not so easy’ to see as in daylight is fair.

My point was not about me, but a general point and for the sake of clarification I’ll reword it. I can see how an unsuspecting biker could get caught out encountering mud mid-corner when riding on an unfamiliar road at night.

Why would I not blame the farmer? He deposited the hazard on the road and has a moral and legal responsibility to remove it.
8-)

[Snowy]

At night and when its raining, mud is virtually impossible to see. Well, put it this way, I find it difficult to see. If I were to slow down enough on a rainy night to make the risk nil, I may as well walk - which for me is not the point of riding a bike. We all have different ideas of the level of risk we are willing to take for the fun we have on our bike's. Usually I'm quite risk averse but on rare ocassions I take some pretty big risks on my bike...I think I must be an adrenalin junky ;D ;)

[Kevinb]

Years a go I was following a coach on the way to Dunster/Minehead and passed a farm, I was covered in brown stuff (not mud). Funny looking back but horrible at the time.

[wiltshire builders]

Years a go I was following a coach on the way to Dunster/Minehead and passed a farm, I was covered in brown stuff (not mud). Funny looking back but horrible at the time.
Sh*t! ;D

[Kevinb]

Years a go I was following a coach on the way to Dunster/Minehead and passed a farm, I was covered in brown stuff (not mud). Funny looking back but horrible at the time.
Sh*t! ;D

If memory serves me I was having an excrement, I mean excellent ride

[Conehead]

Must have had a crap time. ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Kevinb]

Not happy so I didn't give myself a pat on the back as I had a load on my front ;D

[Gooz]

nothing worse than a crap ride........... still at least it wasn't pi""ing down too

[Ducatista]

Why would I not blame the farmer?

Ken - Of course you would blame the farmer and claim financial compenation. I must have worded things badly if you think otherwise.
I was merely suggesting that sometimes the financial compensation is not enough e.g. if got run over and were killed.
This makes it sensible for us bikers to try avoid situations EVEN when they aren't our fault. I agree that's unfair and annoying, but that's how it is. In practice the onus is on us because we will be the one's who suffer. People can be forced to pay compensation or even go to jail but there is no way to bring someone back from the dead or change some types of life changing injury


If I were to slow down enough on a rainy night to make the risk nil, I may as well walk

Snowy - I agree with you. That's why personally I avoid riding at night. I like to ride safely and I don't believe I can do that at night AND enjoy myself.
Of course if push comes to shove and I need to get home then I do it - but carefully.

However if you were in said situation. Ride at walking speed or take a risk, then I'm sure you would agree that it is a choice? Not a brilliant choice I agree, but nevertheless a choice.


I think I must be an adrenalin junky

Not really, the vast majority of the time there isn't going to be mud on the corner and mostly if you take those kind of risks you will get away with it.
That does not mean that you didn't take a risk though and does not mean you couldn't have avoided it (I may have too many negative there but I think YKWIM).

[QB1]

Not that I am defending farmers but builders can be just as bad.

I had the misfortune to go along the Sandridge road and new bypass in Melksham at the weekend and the state the builders/developers have left the road in is disgusting.

I'm surprised no ones crashed a car there yet let alone skidded off on two wheels :o :o >:(

[redken1]

Whoever is responsible we as bikers should challenge them in my opinion? If we stopped turning a blind eye the message might get through eventually.

[Snowy]

Whoever is responsible we as bikers should challenge them in my opinion? If we stopped turning a blind eye the message might get through eventually.

Agreed. Any issues I come across as I'm driving I report to the Council on their "CLARENCE" system, adding that its especially dangerous to motorcyclists and explain why. You can do it here:

http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/parkingtransportandstreets/roadshighwayspavements/reportahighwayproblem.htm

[Swanny]

Lorry drivers that overfill their tanks should be hung as well

[Conehead]

Lorry drivers that overfill their tanks should be hung as well

I agree there should be a law against it. It is a right hassle riding in the wet trying spot deisel. :P :P

[Conehead]

My grammar is getting worse by the day.

'trying TO spot THE deisel'

[Swanny]

It's diesel ;)

[redken1]

Whoever is responsible we as bikers should challenge them in my opinion? If we stopped turning a blind eye the message might get through eventually.

Agreed. Any issues I come across as I'm driving I report to the Council on their "CLARENCE" system, adding that its especially dangerous to motorcyclists and explain why. You can do it here:

http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/parkingtransportandstreets/roadshighwayspavements/reportahighwayproblem.htm


Thanks for that Graeme I will use that site in future. Always worth checking to see if road has been cleared later.

[Conehead]

It's diesel ;)

Thought it was. Proof that I'm losing it. :o :o

[wiltshire builders]

Not that I am defending farmers but builders can be just as bad.

I had the misfortune to go along the Sandridge road and new bypass in Melksham at the weekend and the state the builders/developers have left the road in is disgusting.

I'm surprised no ones crashed a car there yet let alone skidded off on two wheels :o :o >:(
I did some work near there and you're right. They employ a full time road sweeper to clean the site but not the main road.
Cocklebury road in Chippenham is in the same state. Trouble is everyone passes the buck as they are all sub contracted to the job.
Unfortunately the buck stops with me so I clear up my own and everyone else's mess.
Shame farmers aren't as conscientious.

[redken1]

"However if you were in said situation. Ride at walking speed or take a risk, then I'm sure you would agree that it is a choice? Not a brilliant choice I agree, but nevertheless a choice."

According to official statistics motorcyclists are 25 times more likely to be involved in an accident than motorists.

Of course we should assess the risks at all times with the aim of lowering these unacceptable odds, I would suggest however, that a biker who chooses to ride at ‘walking speed’ to lower the risk should give some careful consideration as to whether or not a motorcycle is the right mode of transport for him/her.


Canal boat? :P :D ;) ;D

[Swanny]

I don't live in fear of death by motorcycle on muddy/diesel roads 8-)

[wiltshire builders]

I don't live in fear of death by motorcycle on muddy/diesel roads 8-)
It wouldn't be death by motorcycle, it would be death by someone else not giving a f*#k about anybody but themselves which, in my view, is not too far off of murder.

[Swanny]

Oh well that's still better than dying in an old peoples home :D

[Mark_Able]

Why would I not blame the farmer?

Ken - Of course you would blame the farmer and claim financial compenation. I must have worded things badly if you think otherwise.
I was merely suggesting that sometimes the financial compensation is not enough e.g. if got run over and were killed.
This makes it sensible for us bikers to try avoid situations EVEN when they aren't our fault. I agree that's unfair and annoying, but that's how it is. In practice the onus is on us because we will be the one's who suffer. People can be forced to pay compensation or even go to jail but there is no way to bring someone back from the dead or change some types of life changing injury


If I were to slow down enough on a rainy night to make the risk nil, I may as well walk

Snowy - I agree with you. That's why personally I avoid riding at night. I like to ride safely and I don't believe I can do that at night AND enjoy myself.
Of course if push comes to shove and I need to get home then I do it - but carefully.

However if you were in said situation. Ride at walking speed or take a risk, then I'm sure you would agree that it is a choice? Not a brilliant choice I agree, but nevertheless a choice.


I think I must be an adrenalin junky

Not really, the vast majority of the time there isn't going to be mud on the corner and mostly if you take those kind of risks you will get away with it.
That does not mean that you didn't take a risk though and does not mean you couldn't have avoided it (I may have too many negative there but I think YKWIM).

You make me want to give up riding bikes... :(