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  1. Police demand riders to admit to alleged offences 
    #1
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    This appeared in last weeks MCN. Some have strong views agaisnt MCN. Is there an element of truth in this article.

    Police say they can demand riders admit to an alleged offence, then decide what offence.

    They have been accused of abusing the law with the tactic, used against a number of motorcyclists.

    MCN revealed how riders had received police letters saying they were suspected of an offence but withholding details of the allegation. The letters said they must admit who was riding at the time.

    Now police have admitted they sent the letters before deciding what offence to accuse the riders of.

    The letters cite Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act, which makes it an offence carrying six points and a £1000 fine not to identify the rider. Police routinely use it to find out who was driving or riding a vehicle caught by speed camera.

    But the requirement to tell the police only applies when the rider is ‘alleged to be guilty of an offence’.

    Northumbria’s Sergeant Dave Clement admitted there were no specific allegations against riders in this case.

    “I would imagine the investigation needs to take place before we determine exactly what offences,” he said.

    He said the force had acted within the law. “The riders and drivers of these vehicles are under investigation so we need their details.”

    But road traffic solicitor Robert Dobson said: “They cannot simply write to a registered vehicle keeper asking for the details of the driver when they have not identified the offence of which that driver is allegedly guilty.

    “I would say it’s an abuse of the legislation, which wasn’t drafted for this purpose.

    “It’s a pure and simple fishing exercise.”

    The letters were sent to nine riders who took part in motorway slow-rides organised by the Motor Cycle Action Group over planned EU measures to prevent bike modifying.

    In a separate action, Northumbria Police stopped 45 motorcyclists during the protest, on the A1 in Washington, for allegedly using their bikes in an anti-social manner. Riders were issued warnings that a repeat within 12 months could lead the machine to be seized.
     
     

  2. Re: Police demand riders to admit to alleged offences 
    #2
    Chatterbox Jon_W's Avatar
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    Is MCN..... must be true....... :-?





    Another wonderful article of truth!!! ;D
    "there's no aspect, no facet, no moment in life that can't be improved with pizza"

     
     

  3. Re: Police demand riders to admit to alleged offences 
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    Presumably there must at least an element of truth to this.

    The thing that concerns me, is the fact you can get a fine for not revealing the drivers/riders details.

    Whatever happened to 'the right to remain silent, but anything said can be used against you'?
     
     

  4. Re: Police demand riders to admit to alleged offences 
    #4
    Chatterbox Jon_W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squashed_Fly
    Presumably there must at least an element of truth to this.

    The thing that concerns me, is the fact you can get a fine for not revealing the drivers/riders details.

    Probably one grain somwhere...

    As to not revealing the culprit, withholding information where a crime has been committed is perverting the course of justice...

    The issue with Speed cameras asking for you to admit your crime is an old chesnut. Not new.
    "there's no aspect, no facet, no moment in life that can't be improved with pizza"

     
     

  5. Re: Police demand riders to admit to alleged offences 
    #5
    Active Member Thorkill_The_Tall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squashed_Fly
    Presumably there must at least an element of truth to this.

    The thing that concerns me, is the fact you can get a fine for not revealing the drivers/riders details.

    Whatever happened to 'the right to remain silent, but anything said can be used against you'?
    The answer to your question is that it disappeared 1994.
    This explains everything.
    The last two lines are very interesting.
     
     

  6. Re: Police demand riders to admit to alleged offences 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squashed_Fly
    Presumably there must at least an element of truth to this.

    The thing that concerns me, is the fact you can get a fine for not revealing the drivers/riders details.

    Whatever happened to 'the right to remain silent, but anything said can be used against you'?
    You have the right to remain silent but that cannot be used as a defense not to give evidence if you are aware that an offense has been commited. If you remain silent and the police can prove you were aware that an offense has been commited and you deliberatly withhold that information, you are yourself guilty of an offense. If you remain silent and were not aware of any offense (and cannot be proved otherwise) you are not commiting an offense.

    Thats my understanding however will bow to others greater knowledge than mine in this regard.

     
     

  7. Re: Police demand riders to admit to alleged offences 
    #7
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    It's that word "Alleged" "asserted to be true or to exist"

    Do the Police actually any evidence to prove any offense was committed. Our are they trying to get riders to admit to something they haven't done, by saying you have & then rider thinks oh maybe I did & in that incriminating yourself.

    :
     
     

  8. Re: Police demand riders to admit to alleged offences 
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWGraeme
    [quote author=Squashed_Fly link=1320315019/2#2 date=1320321393]Presumably there must at least an element of truth to this.

    The thing that concerns me, is the fact you can get a fine for not revealing the drivers/riders details.

    Whatever happened to 'the right to remain silent, but anything said can be used against you'?
    You have the right to remain silent but that cannot be used as a defense not to give evidence if you are aware that an offense has been commited. If you remain silent and the police can prove you were aware that an offense has been commited and you deliberatly withhold that information, you are yourself guilty of an offense. If you remain silent and were not aware of any offense (and cannot be proved otherwise) you are not commiting an offense.

    Thats my understanding however will bow to others greater knowledge than mine in this regard.

    [/quote]


    You probably won't believe I'm about to say this....

    But I'll take your word for that as I don't know any better! [smiley=engel017.gif]

    Thankfully, the only involvement I have ever had with the police was my Bikesafe course!

    Oh, and the time that we got pulled over in my brothers car in Lincolnshire, as his car matched the description of one seen leaving a house burglary, and they wanted to search it.

    Not a problem you might think, except that the reason we were in Linclolnshire is we were helping my Dad move house up there, and had the car full of his stuff

    Thankfully, once my dad had realised, and turned around the removal van and come back to help us explain, the copper saw the funny side and let us go! ;D ;D
     
     

  9. Re: Police demand riders to admit to alleged offences 
    #9
    Active Member Marmalade's Avatar
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    It would appear to be true.

    On another bike forum some members have asked for advice after receiving these fishing letters
     
     

  10. Re: Police demand riders to admit to alleged offences 
    #10
    Diamond Member Wes's Avatar
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    Hmm its an old tactic this one, pull you over and try to collude you into giving evidence against yourself, personally i offer nothing, nod a lot, hands behind the back and never call the officer mate. You usually find that if you start to get a rollocking you rarely get booked
     
     

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