Even if it incites hate, it's not an excuse to murder people !
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Even if it incites hate, it's not an excuse to murder people !
Of course not and I'd hope that no one on here would suggest otherwise.Originally Posted by shiftyblake
Look at it this way:
If I drew a picture of your wife, commented on her lack of morals, poked fun at her appearance and generally mocked her and your relationship with her then printed it in a national magazine and put it on twitter for the world to see, would you still great me with a smile the next time you saw me?
I seriously doubt it.
Like I said, the reaction wasn't justified but a reaction was inevitable and now innocent people who had nothing to do with any of it are dead.
No I probably wouldn't smile but I wouldn't shoot your family and associates. The magazine did nothing worse than Muslim protesters regularly write on placards and wave around at events where it will cause maximum offence (and they get police protection to do that).
Also you seem to be coming from an angle that thinks all this magazine did was rip in to Islam. That's not the case this magazine satirised pretty much anything related to current affairs, yet you don't see any other groups it satirised acting this way. So a better or more accurate way to phrase your question would be
"If I satirised your wife, after her having done things that made her a topic of national debate, in a publication that satirised most things of national interest all in an equally rude way, would you then shoot me and a number of my close associates?"
Although to be honest the question is still stupid as my wife is an actual physical being, not a silly creation dreamed up by a cult leader and then used to oppress the masses in to conforming throughout the ages.
Here lies the problem. Your mind is so closed to the possibility of anything other than what you can see, touch or smell. To you everything is black and white.
The fact that you've called my question stupid highlights this.
That is absolutely fine and in most cases the most rational way to be but not always.
Basically you're right, they're wrong. Isn't that their stance too?
This in itself is a belief and you are now trying to force it on the people reading this thread where as posts by myself, Ken and the others are saying what if......how about.....and just think.
There is far more to this than what you are being told.
I'm not saying you're wrong I'm saying "look at it from this angle" and see the bigger picture.
Brilliant
Bollocks, of everything I've typed in this thread those 2 lines you've selectively quoted are my personal opinion and me utilising free speech. At no point have I said others cannot express what they think and utilise their own right to free speech (infact quite the opposite), I'm merely trying to highlight that the murderers you seem so eager to defend and excuse are happy to use their right to free speech on one hand while killing those that use the same right in a way they disagree with.
What if a UK soldier sick of seeing placards wishing him dead went and shot a group of Muslim protestors? Would you apologise and excuse him too? After all he would have been provoked.
Anders Breivik (excuse spelling) in Norway? His beliefs were, in his opinion, under threat. So should we make excuses for him too? After all -
I think you are trying to find a bigger picture so hard that you are ignoring the reality, which (in my opinion) is there is a foreign/alien culture spreading which contains a significant element who are happy to manipulate our own freedoms to their advantage whilst at the same time plotting/attempting to destroy our own society and values to replace it with (a warped) version of their own. Unfortunately even the non-extremist part of this culture if not outright supportive of the extremist part are pretty unwilling to sort it out themselves (and even give it a lot of passive support).
Placating and excusing terrorism does not work. Look at this Christian terrorist him and his mate Gerry are living proof that if you don't draw a line and meet their savagery with equal savagery then you will be dancing their dance further down the line. Only the kind of people that perpetrated this massacre don't just want some political power and carte blanche for their old comrades in arms to take part in organised crime, these guys want to completely control the space between your ears or butcher you if you don't allow it.
Anyway I'll shut up now before I hammer my keyboard keys through the table
WR you clearly don't have the intellect or patience to engage in political debate.
By your own admission and language you are already getting angry rather than weighing up the pros and cons of both arguments.
At no point have I defended the actions of those carried out in France or excused it. I just said it was inevitable.
You can't even quote my words directly to suit your argument because it's not what I actually said.
Their culture is foreign and alien to you not everyone. As for the significant number of people that wish us harm that is just an out and out lie. It is you and people like you that are being controlled. Fear and chaos is being spread through out the west and it's big business.
Vote for us and we'll keep you safe is the sales pitch.
I take it you're referring to the trouble in Northern Ireland at the end of your rant.
Violence was met with violence in equal measure and it achieved nothing.
What was it that resolved it In the end? Talking. I believe it was called The northern Irish PEACE Process.
Maybe not and despite saying I'd shut up your imbecilic rant back at me is like a red rag to a bull. I doubt you have anything approaching intellect or ability to debate properly either though
Sorry I fail to see a pro side in people being massacred for exercising their right to free speech. Your ignorance shows here because the magazine in question did not solely ridicule Muslims it ridiculed anything and everything yet all those other groups it insulted did not choose to unload assault rifles in to it's staff.
Which in itself is excusing the act. It is not an inevitable act, it was a criminal act perpetrated by nutjobs.
No I used a direct quote, learn to read or master the English language if you don't mean what you said and was then quoted.
It is foreign and alien to Western society. Now I have no issue with multi-culturalism as long as it integrates to its host. This particular part of that culture has done the opposite and sworn to destroy western culture and replace with an extreme version of theirs.
Far from it I know our own leaders are using these type of events to erode our own personal freedoms in the name of "safety". However that does not mean that the threat is not there and as we have now seen in Paris growing. I've served where these kind of nut jobs were allowed to slowly flourish to a point where while we were trying to squash them our political leaders had to make a backroom deal for us to bug out and hide in a large airbase till withdrawal.
You like to say what I state is wrong/stupid/whatever yet you can't address my points one at a time and tell me where I am wrong. You simply attack me personally telling me I have no intellect and rant about the bigger picture without really identifying this massive International, strategic big picture that I should abandon my non-intellectual, idiotic views to follow.
This is very disappointing. I was hoping we could have engaged in a sensible and grown up debate without any personal attacks and muck slinging. Perhaps it is too emotive a subject matter and the wounds of Paris are too fresh. Perhaps there is no right time or place to discuss the ever increasing divide which exists between the two cultures in a sensible and tolerant way? Please refrain from making personal attacks.
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