David's story

[Davegsr]

As the saying goes - 'There but for the grace of God go I'. There's a risk in everything we do, but the negative outcomes to some of our choices of what we do or risks we take are more severe than others. That doesn't stop me making those choices or taking those risks, but I do so with a greater awareness.

Then you get a day like today - warm sunny weather - no commitments - a big powerful bike - long straight roads - flowing bends - everything you need to up the ante.

No drama or near miss today, but I'm not naive and I do know it's as much down to luck as it is to skill and judgement.

Hope everyone else is back safely tonight.

[Throttle_junkie]

Thats what i was thinking, but didnt know how to say it

[Mal103]

That's a fine attitude if it's just yourself, your bike and a race track as nobody else would be affected if you pushed it too far and lost control. In this instance the numpty car driver deserved to get done for not paying attention, they may have even had to live with causing an accident where a Biker was hurt, they did NOT deserve to live with having someone die, the excessive speed and risk taking ensured it was going to end badly, nothing to do with luck.

Experience should tell you that you cannot rely on luck, you have to ride within your limits, the limits of your bike and the conditions. How many times have you predicted someones mistake and have slowed down so when it does play out you can stop, "sign", toot, etc instead of smashing into them because you are unlucky.
Before you say it, i'm not a Sunday driver equivalent on two wheels, I was happily pushing a ton last week in certain places but yesterday was in exactly the same situation as the rider that died, with someone waiting to turn right across my path - experience told me to slow the f down and I went past at 47 not 97.
Don't wait for the luck to run out!

[Davegsr]

Hi Mal103, I don't disagree with what you've said, but my interpretation of 'luck' is loosely based on "a purposeless, unpredictable and uncontrollable force that shapes events favorably or unfavorably for an individual, group or cause". I ride defensively and minimise my risks according to events and surroundings as I perceive them, but sometimes 's**t happens'. You just cannot account for all eventualities, sometimes you are literally 'in the wrong place at the wrong time' no matter what has gone on before whether intentional or not.

[Trev]

Dave, I understand what you mean - personally I don't believe in luck good or bad, no walking under ladders and all that guff and not too sure about a 'force shaping events' but certainly circumstances can play a huge part. Some years ago (ok many year ago!) I was blatting home from work late at night on my LC when a deer jumped into the road in literally right in front of me, I ducked and turned away certain of an impact and looked around a split second later to see it bound off to my left rear. I had no chance to brake or take evasive action, if I had arrived a split second earlier the deer would have landed on me, the same split second later and it would have wiped me out as it made it's second jump.

Not sure what that says other than a reminder of your post, you can't cover everything

[Mal103]

No probs Dave and sorry for coming across a bit strong earlier. I am sure there are plenty of occasions when bad luck strikes and there is nothing you can do about it, like a near miss with a deer! At the other end of the scale is taking excessive risks where luck has nothing to do with it.
I think there are a whole bunch of occasions in between that are part luck and part skill, like riding fast round a bend and slipping on mud, I don't think that is totally unlucky, I think it's mostly bad riding. Depends what you think is luck, I would rather ride the best I can.

[Davegsr]

No need to apologise Mal, you've expressed a valid opinion and reason. The point of a forum is bringing together people with a common interest, not necessarily a common point of view. This is such an emotive issue and my heart goes out to the family and friends of David. This is too much of a common occurrence on our roads and if nothing else it should serve to remind all of us of our own mortality. Preservation is the key issue. If what we talk about here on the forum translates to more vigilance and a possible change to riding manners, style or attitude on the road then his mother's action of posting the video has served a purpose and perhaps made a difference.

[wiltshire builders]

I was having a conversation about this the other day.
You can be a bad driver all day long and have no problems what-so-ever.
Despite what we all think, most drivers are very good and capable. They pick up the slack and compensate for the bad driving by taking evasive action or giving a wide berth.
It's when 2 bad drivers meet that you get accidents.
I expect David had ridden that road a hundred times before with no problems so he felt confident enough to go that bit faster.
I expect the Clio driver had pulled out without looking before but, thanks to the skill of other drivers, had never caused an accident.
It was just bad timing that these 2 people were on the same stretch of road at precisely that point in time.
A few seconds either way and it would've be a happier story.
Both were at fault but it's just unfortunate one of them lost their life.
Judging by what his mum said, he seemed like a really cool guy.

[Burbler]

Both were at fault but it's just unfortunate one of them lost their life.
Judging by what his mum said, he seemed like a really cool guy.

I don't see that the car driver should be expected and able to allow for a bike closing at 50 yds per second. It is outside normal road experience. Even if he did see the bike nearly 1/4 mile away he would have thought that he'd plenty of time to turn right across that road. He had about 4 secs.
Go on, count it out and do a right turn...No, I put the fault 100% on the bike.

[wiltshire builders]

I don't see that the car driver should be expected and able to allow for a bike closing at 50 yds per second. It is outside normal road experience. Even if he did see the bike nearly 1/4 mile away he would have thought that he'd plenty of time to turn right across that road. He had about 4 secs.
Go on, count it out and do a right turn...No, I put the fault 100% on the bike.

Lucky you're not a magistrate then.
The driver didn't see the bike or the car behind it and as a result got a 12 month suspended sentence.
The police report states that the bike and the car behind were clearly visible for 7 seconds. Count that.
More than enough time to judge the situation.
That driver was concentrating on something other than driving and as a result someone else is dead.
They have to accept some responsibility For their lack of care.