Prisoners to get the vote

[Hunar]

[quote author=Squashed_Fly link=1288979633/34#34 date=1297429322][quote author=swarwick link=1288979633/32#32 date=1297428400]

I would love to go back to work, but what's the point if after the first month I would be £200 down?

The point is, for me anyway (and I had to do exactly that!) that I kept my pride and could say I worked for what I had, even if it was less than benefits. I can live on £15 a week if I need to. That's what Asda smartprice and Tesco value is for.

I don't NEED my motorbike, I don't NEED my tele, I don't NEED most of the things I own that cost money to have or run. I NEED food, water and a warm place to sleep. We have become so used to living with our luxuries, we have forgotten what it's like to ever actually NEED something.

Speak to people who teach, or some of the families that I speak to doing my fostering training etc, or some of the kids my mum fostered. Then you'll know what it's like to need.

You can live easily on basic wage - millions do every day. They just have to forfeit some of lifes little luxuries until they can afford them again.

I'm not pointing any fingers, and am aware my views may be taken as aggressive. No intent to offend. But the other night we were all the pub drinking and eating. If you were really poor Hunar, you couldn't afford to do that.

We, as people, have lost the sense of pride that comes with having a job and working for what you have, no matter how small or no matter how much we'd be better off on benefits. Sorry, that's not for me.[/quote]


+1 - well put. [/quote]

rofl

[Squashed_Fly]

You asked the question, 'what's the point in working if I get less than being on benefits'. I answered it.

I'm not being judgemental. I'm not presuming you are scrounging. Nothing like that. What I said was, I take a sense of pride in knowing I work for my money. I don't earn a high salary, but I work hard for it. That's the point. I don't make assumptions about things, or tar everyone with the same brush. I simply stated my opinion as it applies to me. I've had to claim my self when I was made redundant. But I hated it. And I took whatever job I could get to make sure I was working. I've worked hard for what little I've got but I'm proud to say that I've earnt it myself. I don't think there's anything wrong with having some pride, and it certainly doesn't make a me a judgemental person.

The trouble with forums, is that we all have lives & experiences that no-one else knows about so it's quite easy to take offence at something someone has said, rather than asking them (perhaps privately if it's a contentious issue) why they think that and taking the time to understand their point of view. I like my opinions and thoughts to be challenged as it helps to develop and shape the way I think about things but I don't like to be thought of as a 'snob' or someone who just 'puts everyone in the same boat'.

Apologies if anything I have said has caused any offfence, it certainly was never meant that way.

[redken1]

Hunar, we discussed this very topic (unemployment) at the PB last Friday (during your official break :P).

Every time the greedy capitalist gravy train hits the buffers the right-wing media and right-wing government of the day target the most vulnerable members of society with their vilification. For example, the highest circulating paper (don’t ask me why) The Sun is always quick to publish extensive reports on extreme cases of benefit fraud. In contrast, the paper never appears to give the same degree of coverage to those people who have taken their own lives out of despair of being unemployed.

I have been in the unfortunate position of facing up to redundancy in the past and as a jobseeker actively seeking work I claimed all the benefits I was eligible for and entitled to. My priority at the time was to provide for my family and despite the ‘State’s’ unwavering determination to humiliate me, my pride remained intact.

I wonder if the Bankers (still gambling with billions of taxpayer's dosh) who draw their huge wads of bonus cash feel a sense of pride?
I wonder if the Directors of the Energy giants who screw us for every last penny in their obsessive quest for obscene profits, feel a sense of pride?

I wonder if the members of the Black-liquid-Gold Cartels who hold the world to ransom, feel a sense of pride?

Last, but not least, I wonder if those MP’s who fiddled their expenses, felt a sense of pride?

Get’s down from soap box

[pilninggas]

Blimey, this thread is a bit tense

It's a shame a decent thread about the validity of prisoner voting and the ECHR, got turned into one about benefits.

Redken your keyboard must be worn out............ :

[redken1]

Blimey, this thread is a bit tense

It's a shame a decent thread about the validity of prisoner voting and the ECHR, got turned into one about benefits.

Redken your keyboard must be worn out............ :

Some folk love reading, others watch TV, I enjoy writing most evenings.
Keyboard is feeling the strain and I ain't started my letter to the PM yet.
Sorry for wandering of the 'beaten track', but I do feel that the unemployed get a unfair press. Now that you mention it, I suspect that the govenment will introduce some form of voting rights for prisoners - probably for non-violent short-termers. whether such measures will appease the convention, remains to be seen. :-/

[redken1]

Ps Pilninggas - I am not tense - if I was vegetable I would be a cucumber 8-) ;D

[pilninggas]

[quote author=pilninggas link=1288979633/43#43 date=1297801785]Blimey, this thread is a bit tense

It's a shame a decent thread about the validity of prisoner voting and the ECHR, got turned into one about benefits.

Redken your keyboard must be worn out............ :

Some folk love reading, others watch TV, I enjoy writing most evenings.
Keyboard is feeling the strain and I ain't started my letter to the PM yet.
Sorry for wandering of the 'beaten track', but I do feel that the unemployed get a unfair press. Now that you mention it, I suspect that the govenment will introduce some form of voting rights for prisoners - probably for non-violent short-termers. whether such measures will appease the convention, remains to be seen. :-/[/quote]
Keyboard and Keith Warmington for me, no TV.

[JAYJAY]

Here's a simple solution - Make all prisons a constituancy - let them all vote - they get one MP.

If their MP is worth his/her salt he/she can sort the wheat from the chaffe. If he's not all the other MP's will ignore him/her

[JAYJAY]

I would advise everyone to err on the side of caution when considering the plight of the jobles. The numbers are rising fast, loads of redundancies in the pipeline. Now we have a Tory led government jobs are likely to get harder to find as the jobless figures rise, inflation and interest rates will increase as will the tax burden, except for the well healed of course!
Just a point of interest as the Tories love to claim to be the party of low taxation here is the history of VAT
Introduced by Ted Heath (Tory) in 1973 at 10% (replaced purchase tax of around 6% depending on item classification)
Decreased by Harold Wilson (Labour) in 1974 to 8%
Increased by Maggie Thatcher (Tory) in 1980 to 15%
Increased by John Major (Tory) in 1994 to 17.5%
Increased By Cameraon (Tory) in 2011 to 20%

Come back Harold!

[redken1]

I would advise everyone to err on the side of caution when considering the plight of the jobles. The numbers are rising fast, loads of redundancies in the pipeline. Now we have a Tory led government jobs are likely to get harder to find as the jobless figures rise, inflation and interest rates will increase as will the tax burden, except for the well healed of course!
Just a point of interest as the Tories love to claim to be the party of low taxation here is the history of VAT
Introduced by Ted Heath (Tory) in 1973 at 10% (replaced purchase tax of around 6% depending on item classification)
Decreased by Harold Wilson (Labour) in 1974 to 8%
Increased by Maggie Thatcher (Tory) in 1980 to 15%
Increased by John Major (Tory) in 1994 to 17.5%
Increased By Cameraon (Tory) in 2011 to 20%

Come back Harold!

Two relevant additional points to note JayJay

This week's unemployment figures saw the highest number of jobless in the 16 to 24 age group since records began.

Stating the obvious, but as VAT is not an income based tax it will always hit the poor and low paid the hardest as these groups have the least disposable income.

When Cameron's dismantling of the welfare state kicks in, watch crime figures rise.