Slow down!

[wiltshire builders]

You can only protect people so much. After that, they're on their own.
This is an perfect example of the nanny state backfiring. In Britain we're surrounded by this protective bubble and know that if we get hurt then someone is going to pay/rescue/look after us.

On a recent trip to Thailand the running joke was "It must be safe, they wouldn't let us do it otherwise"
Unfortunately many people actually belive this which is why deaths/injuries of westerners are so high.
They call gravel rash the "Koh Phangan tattoo" as the number of scooter accidents is so high on the island.

Dumbing down isn't the answer and neither is pointing the finger. We all need to stop and think and take responsibility for our actions.
The kid on the 50 needs to be told that the only person to blame is himself, otherwise he'll just carry on making the same mistakes.

[Dan505]

agreed, you dress/ride like road rash then you increase the chance of becoming road rash.

i'm sure if riding without gloves/helmets etc voided your insurance then less people would dress better, not all but some.

i feel sorry for the poor sods who have to attend RTI's and have more to deal with because they're spread more of themselves about by not being properly kitted out.

as for CBT i wasn't taught/shown/told anything about counter steering and only found it on here, this simple knowledge improved my riding staright away as i wasn't fighting the bars round the corners

[Nikki]

You can only protect people so much. After that, they're on their own.
This is an perfect example of the nanny state backfiring. In Britain we're surrounded by this protective bubble and know that if we get hurt then someone is going to pay/rescue/look after us.

On a recent trip to Thailand the running joke was "It must be safe, they wouldn't let us do it otherwise"
Unfortunately many people actually belive this which is why deaths/injuries of westerners are so high.
They call gravel rash the "Koh Phangan tattoo" as the number of scooter accidents is so high on the island.

Dumbing down isn't the answer and neither is pointing the finger. We all need to stop and think and take responsibility for our actions.
The kid on the 50 needs to be told that the only person to blame is himself, otherwise he'll just carry on making the same mistakes.

Yes that's fine BUT if you truly don't know that manhole covers are slippery and that you don't open the throttle on a corner you can only learn by experience.

Thankfully this lad fell off at slow speed on a housing estate and suffered little more than bruises and gravel rash and yes I hope, in the nicest possible way, that he has learnt from it.

If he'd done the same thing, through ignorance, out on the main road with a car coming, learning the hard way could have easily killed him.

The point I am making is that in this country we have basic bike training for learners to minimise road deaths and accidents. I honestly think that's failing if a learner has undertaken basic training and hasn't been taught something as simple as that.

[Dabz]

if they make the training more comprehensive though the cost will increase, then us bikers will moan about how it's harder/more expensive to get into biking and the instructors will moan because nobody's learning to ride...

[Nikki]

if they make the training more comprehensive though the cost will increase, then us bikers will moan about how it's harder/more expensive to get into biking and the instructors will moan because nobody's learning to ride...

Perhaps it's time to re-look at how/what training is being provided if we really want to reduce accident statistics?

[Geordie Stu]

You hope that when you trian people into doing something they remember at least some part of it. Education is a strange thing some people just don't get it no matter how much they are taught.

Personally it's not just rider training but educate drivers of larger vehicles into becoming more observant. Instead of making motorcycling harder.

I still think young car drivers should have a restriction on bhp similar to that of New Bikers.

[Jon_W]

This is the arguement gone through every now and again with both cars and bikes.

There is a limit to the amount than can be taught. Even if the CBT was extended to a week long and covered every aspect in great detail the pupil would not remember everything.

We now have the two part test which has had little effect and the increased car test which has had a similar resounding ineffectiveness.

There is no substitute for expierence at the end of the day.

[Geordie Stu]

There is no substitute for expierence at the end of the day.

Agreed [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[wiltshire builders]

[quote author=dan_geoghegan link=1342298769/80#80 date=1342707017]You can only protect people so much. After that, they're on their own.
This is an perfect example of the nanny state backfiring. In Britain we're surrounded by this protective bubble and know that if we get hurt then someone is going to pay/rescue/look after us.

On a recent trip to Thailand the running joke was "It must be safe, they wouldn't let us do it otherwise"
Unfortunately many people actually belive this which is why deaths/injuries of westerners are so high.
They call gravel rash the "Koh Phangan tattoo" as the number of scooter accidents is so high on the island.

Dumbing down isn't the answer and neither is pointing the finger. We all need to stop and think and take responsibility for our actions.
The kid on the 50 needs to be told that the only person to blame is himself, otherwise he'll just carry on making the same mistakes.

Yes that's fine BUT if you truly don't know that manhole covers are slippery and that you don't open the throttle on a corner you can only learn by experience.

Thankfully this lad fell off at slow speed on a housing estate and suffered little more than bruises and gravel rash and yes I hope, in the nicest possible way, that he has learnt from it.

If he'd done the same thing, through ignorance, out on the main road with a car coming, learning the hard way could have easily killed him.

The point I am making is that in this country we have basic bike training for learners to minimise road deaths and accidents. I honestly think that's failing if a learner has undertaken basic training and hasn't been taught something as simple as that.

[/quote]
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Riding/driving isn't a right, it's a privilege and with it comes responsibility.
You are shifting the responsibilty and therefore the blame from the lad to his instructor. If he thinks for a second that it's not his fault he's wrong. He was incredibly lucky and needs to be aware of the full horror that his actions could have had especially wearing what he was. He may not be thick, but he was stupid.
The CBT isn't a test or a lesson to provide you with all the skills you need it's compulsary BASIC training incorporating starting, stopping and basic handling skills.
If you turn it into a major test then you are robbing the people who are capable of making a judgement on what's safe and what's not of being able to ride.

He crashed because he did something stupid. If he's smart, he wont do it again.

[Nikki]

[quote author=Nikki link=1342298769/82#82 date=1342707645][quote author=dan_geoghegan link=1342298769/80#80 date=1342707017]You can only protect people so much. After that, they're on their own.
This is an perfect example of the nanny state backfiring. In Britain we're surrounded by this protective bubble and know that if we get hurt then someone is going to pay/rescue/look after us.

On a recent trip to Thailand the running joke was "It must be safe, they wouldn't let us do it otherwise"
Unfortunately many people actually belive this which is why deaths/injuries of westerners are so high.
They call gravel rash the "Koh Phangan tattoo" as the number of scooter accidents is so high on the island.

Dumbing down isn't the answer and neither is pointing the finger. We all need to stop and think and take responsibility for our actions.
The kid on the 50 needs to be told that the only person to blame is himself, otherwise he'll just carry on making the same mistakes.

Yes that's fine BUT if you truly don't know that manhole covers are slippery and that you don't open the throttle on a corner you can only learn by experience.

Thankfully this lad fell off at slow speed on a housing estate and suffered little more than bruises and gravel rash and yes I hope, in the nicest possible way, that he has learnt from it.

If he'd done the same thing, through ignorance, out on the main road with a car coming, learning the hard way could have easily killed him.

The point I am making is that in this country we have basic bike training for learners to minimise road deaths and accidents. I honestly think that's failing if a learner has undertaken basic training and hasn't been taught something as simple as that.

[/quote]
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Riding/driving isn't a right, it's a privilege and with it comes responsibility.
You are shifting the responsibilty and therefore the blame from the lad to his instructor. If he thinks for a second that it's not his fault he's wrong. He was incredibly lucky and needs to be aware of the full horror that his actions could have had especially wearing what he was. He may not be thick, but he was stupid.
The CBT isn't a test or a lesson to provide you with all the skills you need it's compulsary BASIC training incorporating starting, stopping and basic handling skills.
If you turn it into a major test then you are robbing the people who are capable of making a judgement on what's safe and what's not of being able to ride.

He crashed because he did something stupid. If he's smart, he wont do it again. [/quote]

Perhaps I didnt explain very well - in the incident I mentioned the lad wasn't blaming anyone, he really is a nice, pleasant, decent young man, but he genuinely didnt have a clue that man hole covers are slippery and that he shouldnt open the throttle when cornering, and my personal view is that CBT training must somehow be lacking if someone can undertake this and truly not be aware of something so very fundamental. If he'd done this on a main road with oncoming traffic he'd probably be another (avoidable) statistic.

But yes I do absolutely appreciate what you say and yes we will agree to disagree.