Time to choose sides?

[redken1]

In this country everybody has the right to be treated, regardless.
The NHS have to prioritise operations Heart surgery, Transplants, Cancer more life threatening than someone being obese & or smokers. It's not about subsidising the NHS we all pay tax towards the NHS.

If that means if you require Bariatric surgery & you have to weight then tough, Eat less move more....!

Trust me you should here what "some" surgeons have to say about performing Bariatric surgery....!

Stu, I agree with your opening statement and that was the point of my original post – smokers and overweight patients are being blatantly discriminated against by the NHS.

Data shows that more than a quarter of Primary Care Trusts in England have brought in new restrictions based on patients’ lifestyle criteria in the last year.

In the case of one trust, NHS Hertfordshire, a controversial ban imposed last year on knee and hip operations for anyone with a body mass index (BMI) over 30 as well as smokers, has been extended to cover all routine surgery.
This is a blanket policy and the patients are not medically examined by a doctor to determine whether their lifestyles could pose an additional health risk during surgical procedures.

I made the factual statement that smokers subsidize the NHS (indirectly) because I believe it is relevant to my argument.

Politicians and medical bodies have been telling us for years that smokers place a financial burden on the NHS. We are told that it now costs £6.5 billion to treat patients with smoking related illnesses. Joe public is more likely to accept this discriminatory policy if he is force-fed with half-truths.

The treasury’s take in duty and tax from all tobacco products sold in this financial year will probably exceed £12 billion. And or course, smokers and the obese are not exempt from paying NI contributions.

There are a number of reports out from different organisations, which claim that non-smokers who live a healthy lifestyle cost the state more in the long –term because on average they live much longer – quoting pensions and care for long lasting-illnesses such as Alzheimer’s disease as factors.

I take it the surgeons you are referring to are not those who have made a small fortune out of performing bariatric surgery? :-?

[Col]

Hey Stu I see what you did there-----very subtle word changes 8-)

Can I have some chips for noticing ;D

[Geordie Stu]

We all make decisions & proiritise our own needs & wants.

Hospitals do the same. It's not about goverment subsidies or who pays what tax. It's about managing their budget to the needs of the patients. I think you need to come with me & see behind closed doors. You might change your point of view.

Internal politics & to many line managers within all NHS trusts have wasted money in miss management. If they had more Doctors, Nurses & paid them a decent salary instead of the middle management then perhaps the NHS would be in such a hard times. There are too many people with in the NHS more worried about covering their own arses if something goes wrong.

I'm sorry Ken. In my opinion your wrong on this, your socialist views need to see behind closed doors, then perhaps you'd understand the NHS & it's fight to provide care.

Ok true story told to me by a Surgeon. Teenager, been waiting for years for New Heart & Lung. Middle aged man in his 50's Smoker & not too over weight also needs Heart & Lung, 1 donor who gets it....? Both have weeks to live.
Now Prioritse....!

Also, Routine operation to fit a gastric band, Surgeon about to perform the operation is called away to examine a patient with acute pains in their chest.

Does the Surgeon go attend the patient with pains in their chest or carry on & perform the operation.
Proritise....!!

If your over weight then wait

[redken1]

Blue Stu :P, you are right – if I was to join you on a tour of a busy hospital, it probably would alter my political position. I suspect I would walk in the front doors a socialist and come out of the back doors a communist.

I’m not quite sure as to what part of my standpoint you don’t agree with as we appear to be singing from the same hymn-sheet. I’m in total agreement with your eloquently written statement, “In this country everybody has the right to be treated, regardless.” That was the point of my post.

Your comments relating to the smoker in his 50s versus the teenager is a bit of a red herring in the context of this debate. I’m not taking issue over difficult day-to-day decisions surgeons/consultants have to make.

I’m challenging government reforms which allow NHS managers to discriminate against smokers and overweight patients, denying them routine operations. What about all those who consume over the daily recommended amount of alcohol?

What about bikers who are 25 times more likely to be involved in an accident – should they be forced to take out additional insurance cover to pay for NHS bills in the unfortunate event of an accident? This is a dangerous precedent and paves the way for the NHS managers to sit judgement on those patients who they deem to lead unfit lifestyles.

[Kevinb]

I smoke, I drink, I weigh too much, have high blood pressure, diabetic and ride a motorbike too fast. Looks like I'll be written off.

I could tell the doctor the above but he is foreign and doesn't understand English too well.
Looks like I'm totally buggered.

[Swanny]

Live for today

[Geordie Stu]

While in a meeting today with some NHS Estates Manager & Capital Planners. We touched on why the NHS is in such a mess.

They touched on why patients are being turned away, oh I thought I wished my Redneck manc friend was with me to hear this.
The were speaking about Peterbrough & the population boom they've had & how people are living longer & advances in medical science. It was mentioned that as an NHS Foundation Trust the goverment pay the trust to conduct operations. An example was given. For example have to state how many for eample, hip operations they are likely to do in 1 finnacial year. The Trust give a figure of 1000 for which they recieve £100. But if they go overthat amount 1001 then the figure drops by a 3rd. As it is NHS policy that everybody is entitled to treatment then the trust is obilged to give it. But now they are turning patients away & only giving treatment to non elective patients, when they are close to reaching the agreed figure.

So what does the Trust do. If they increase the figure they have to reduce it elsewhere as the trust won't get an increase in budget.

[Goldie]

While in a meeting today with some NHS Estates Manager & Capital Planners. We touched on why the NHS is in such a mess.

and nobody said it's because our fabulous wannabe-anti-collectivist PM & his monkeys are doing their best to privatise it :-[

[redken1]

Perhaps you can see why I despise the wealthy Tory (red, blue and yellow-bellies variants of the same) Toffs who run our country. OK to deny access to treatment to those who can’t afford to go private like them.

Bottomless pit to engage in wars or bail-out banks, but there’s never enough cash to treat our own citizens.

Get the the bloody greedy profiteers out of our hospitals now!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[Goldie]

Hate to say it....but it's only going to get worse :'( Goodbye Great Britain and hello Unites States of Britain :