Death penalty

[Maria]

So another poor child been murdered,think its about time they bring back the death penalty,with all the forensic evidence in this day,why the hell do they send them to prison for life 15 years or so,with good behaviour ,out sooner,makes my blood boil.sorry rant over.

[wiltshire builders]

I used to think the same until I met a forensic psycologist who explained that we need to better understand how and why these scumbags do what they do.
Then we can pre-empt their actions and prevent these things happening.

The death penalty is too late as the crime has already been committed.

While I agree that they absolutely deserve to die in the most horrendous way possible, it wont save a single person.

Death isn't a deterrent to these people.

[Col]

I would happily 'murder' a few but whether I should die for relieving the human race of the scum would and should not be understood as being fair or just.

You advocating death penalty for child murder then Maria or any murder ?

What is the real definition of murder ?? :-?

Is it not 'murder' to slaughter innocent civilians in foreign lands ? Yet this happens on a daily basis so what value do you place on the lives of small children slaughtered on the alter of 'acceptable regime change' of a foreign country to placate the desires of western power as opposed to a child murdered here---do their lives hold different values ????? Is the child killed in UK of a greater value than the child slaughtered by massive military might and passed over as an unfortunate side to 'war'

A man kills another who raped his young daughter---is that murder or is that acceptable justice.

Plod shoots dead a man before any legal judgement--is this murder by the state ? or is this acceptable to protect the majority from harm and therefore is 'justifiable killing' but not seen as murder by the state even though to all intents and purposes it is ?


Me ?---Oh yeah I'd rope the lot up -- pay less tax which must be good and saves resources. As we are skint there is no money to keep them alive unless their 'loving families' decide to pay for the murderers keep-----that wouldn't happen I'll bet ;D

[Conehead]

What really gets me is that when there is an accident they always say how many Brits were involved and nothing of the rest.

I dont think we should single people out like that.

:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

[FJ_Biker]

Personally I do not believe in the death penalty. America still has the death penalty and murder rates are a lot higher

You are stooping to their level after all we are supposed to live in a civilised society. what is the next plan of action stoning people because they commit adultery. Putting witches in water to see if the float or sink. Impaling people for religious views. Personally I am glad these days have gone and we are free to say what we want and people are free to criticise our views.

If the forensic staff who interview this person get enough knowlage out of the person and pass it on via training to social services and this saves a life in the future it will have been worth it.

If the arrested person is found guilty they are going to be locked up with some right evil b@rst3rds, they will not have a comfy life thats for sure.

[Col]

You are stooping to their level after all we are supposed to live in a civilised society. what is the next plan of action stoning people because they commit adultery. Putting witches in water to see if the float or sink. Impaling people for religious views. Personally I am glad these days have gone and we are free to say what we want and people are free to criticise our views.

If the forensic staff who interview this person get enough knowlage out of the person and pass it on via training to social services and this saves a life in the future it will have been worth it.

If the arrested person is found guilty they are going to be locked up with some right evil b@rst3rds, they will not have a comfy life thats for sure.

Don't believe we are 'free to say what we want' at all---as the thought plod will take you away as if you upset some wetweekenders fragile sensibilities by telling it like it is you are a bad bad person > [as an example check out the 'scum' post--I know what I'd put and that would upset quite a few ;D ;D ]

Also why are you mentioning 'social services' Taffy ? Do you suppose murderers are already costing normal taxpayers by being 'on the radar' of social services--incidentally these bods are a recent burgeoning cost--- I want to know why there are so many social workers :-? yes--society has burgeoning problems brought about by poor education,parenting,discipline, blah, blah--keep paying and say nowt : :P

p.s. Thought I'd highlight 'knowlage' for the spelling mafiosa ;D

oh well at least it's sunny

[Beamer]

[quote author=FJ_Biker link=1344634642/4#4 date=1344679882]
You are stooping to their level after all we are supposed to live in a civilised society. what is the next plan of action stoning people because they commit adultery. Putting witches in water to see if the float or sink. Impaling people for religious views. Personally I am glad these days have gone and we are free to say what we want and people are free to criticise our views.

If the forensic staff who interview this person get enough knowlage out of the person and pass it on via training to social services and this saves a life in the future it will have been worth it.

If the arrested person is found guilty they are going to be locked up with some right evil b@rst3rds, they will not have a comfy life thats for sure.

Don't believe we are 'free to say what we want' at all---as the thought plod will take you away as if you upset some wetweekenders fragile sensibilities by telling it like it is you are a bad bad person > [as an example check out the 'scum' post--I know what I'd put and that would upset quite a few ;D ;D ]

Also why are you mentioning 'social services Taffy ? Do you suppose 'murderers are already costing normal taxpayers by being 'on the radar' of social services--incidentally these bods are a recent burgeoning cost--- I want to know why there are so many social workers :-? yes--society has burgeoning problems brought about by poor education,parenting,discipline, blah, blah--keep paying and say nowt : :P

p.s. Thought I'd highlight 'knowlage' for the spelling mafiosa ;D

oh well at least it's sunny [/quote]





So many social workers???????

You obviously do not work in that neck of the woods........Social services are stretched to the limit, have limited resources and the people that genuinely need their help can't get it because the few social workers about have massive case loads and no time to do all the paperwork involved......If there was more support out there for the people that really do need it there would be less crap going on !! :-[ :-[

[redken1]

I think it is difficult to have a rational debate on whether or not the death penalty should be reintroduced in the wake of an alleged crime like this, as understandably, emotions are running high.

That said however, I am strongly opposed to Capital punishment on three counts.

Firstly, I personally believe that no one, including a Judge acting on behalf of a state, should have the right to take another person’s life.

Secondly, I don't agree with advocates of the death penalty who argue that it would act as a deterrent.

An extensive survey was carried out in the US over two decades up to 2010, which concluded that, “States without the Death Penalty Have Had Consistently Lower Murder Rates.” It’s also worth noting that most murders are not premeditated and it’s unlikely that those that are, are committed by rationally thinking people.

Last, but not least, you cannot resurrect someone who the state has executed for a murder they didn’t commit.

To illustrate this point more clearly, allow me to post an extract from an article written some time ago by Dr Michael Naughton, one of the country’s leading experts on miscarriages of justice. Although a bit dated, it’s still very relevant to this debate.

We tend to think about miscarriages of justice as rare and exceptional occurrences. Prominent cases such as the Birmingham six, Guildford Four, Bridgewater four, M25 three, Cardiff three, Stephen Downing, and so on create the impression that miscarriages of justice are seen as very much an intermittent, high profile and small scale problem; that there are very few victims in the context of the statistics of all criminal convictions. But there are many more cases than those which receive prominent coverage in the media. Those cases of criminal conviction that are routinely quashed by the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division), or by the Crown Court for convictions previously obtained in the magistrates' court have received no attention at all.
If we pay more attention to these routinely quashed convictions, we find a scale of miscarriage of justice to fundamentally challenge any notion that the current system of criminal justice is weighted too much in favour of the defendant. The Lord Chancellor's Department's statistics on successful appeals against criminal conviction show that in the decade 1989-1999 the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) abated over 8,470 criminal convictions - a yearly average of 770. In addition, there are around 3,500 quashed criminal convictions a year at the Crown Court for convictions obtained at the magistrates' courts. Contrary to popular perceptions, then, wrongful criminal convictions are a normal, everyday feature of the criminal justice system - the system doesn't just sometimes get it wrong, it gets it wrong everyday, of every week, of every month of every year. With the result that thousands of innocent people experience a whole variety of harmful consequences that wrongful criminal convictions engender.

Bear in mind that some of the wrongful convictions highlighted by Dr Naughton, were secured on dodgy evidence brought to the courts by the police and the CPS. In the case of Stephen Downing, He was taken to the police station, questioned for nine hours without a solicitor present, and signed a confession, even though he had a reading age of an 11 year old. Along with many more, he would be dead now.

Let’s not forget the main reason the death penalty was abolished because the state was executing too many innocent people.

Apologies for such a long post, but a very complex issue.

[Col]

[quote author=Tina

So many social workers???????

Social services are stretched to the limit, have limited resources and the people that genuinely need their help can't get it because the few social workers about have massive case loads and no time to do all the paperwork involved......If there was more support out there for the people that really do need it there would be less crap going on !! :-[ :-[[/quote]

I know Tina Beamer but you haven't actually answered the question 'Why are there so many?' or explained why they are 'stretched to the limit' ?

Perhaps the social workers should concentrate on those who genuinely need help rather than those who are foisted on them to be given help by others in the state system. The government could sort a lot of this out by redefining the areas that should concern them in the legal twaddle that costs us even more money and reduce litigation costs caused by complaints.

soz now gone off topic

[Col]

@ redken 'executing too many innocents' -- innocent of what as plenty of question marks around quite a few after a quick check ? :-?

'unlawful killings 300 in 1964'
'The number of killings recorded by police rose to 636 in the 12 months to March 2011'

btw you mention Downing and although released due to lack of plod correct procedure at the time[well done :P ] after over 25 years and now the case is closed. I understand he remains the prime suspect but cannot be retried and refused to be interviewed again even though there are allegations that he has confessed to the killing.

Ken - a dead murderer won't re-offend=fact!!!

'29 people released after being convicted of murder and six people convicted of manslaughter, killed again between 2000/1 and 2010/11'

It won't be re-introduced so we will all continue to keep the increasing number of killers alive and well