Originally Posted by Swanny
Nigel Farage is the only one worth listening to
Did you see his face tonight now the Tories have stole his thunder? ;D
He has certainly done ok from the EU 'gravy train' :-?
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23-01-13, 07:45 PM
Nigel Farage is the only one worth listening to
Did you see his face tonight now the Tories have stole his thunder? ;D
He has certainly done ok from the EU 'gravy train' :-?
24-01-13, 04:44 PM
All three main parties will stand on an EU referendum ticket at the next general election because to do otherwise would be political suicide, as the vast majority of the UK voters want to have their say on Europe either way, and quite rightly so.
That's a good point. Didn't consider that to undo what Cameron has said would be damaging for that party :
24-01-13, 04:57 PM
The trouble with the EU thing is there are 2 main thoughts on it - it's either great for business, making it infinity easier for businesses of all sizes to import/export from Europe, and then there are the normal members of the public who don't like being dictated to by Europe in terms of laws/regulations/policies.
Personally I support our membership of the EU wholeheartedly and think it'd be a huge mistake to leave - but then I run 2 businesses, one of which focusses on Chinese investment into the UK, and without Britain being in the EU we're likely to lose huge pots of money as a country over the next decade.
24-01-13, 06:44 PM
I think it's complete madness for our country to be controlled by the EU. If we really do get the chance to opt out (which I very much doubt) we should leave.
When they signed the Lisbon treaty they committed treason.
24-01-13, 07:13 PM
How will we deal with the knock on effect on the economy Swanny, with the reduction in both import and export? It would result in higher taxes
24-01-13, 07:59 PM
As a democratic socialist, I have mixed feelings on whether we should stay or leave the European Union. On one hand I believe in devolved democratic accountability and less centralisation at Westminster let alone Brussels. We should have democratic control over our own destiny at a local level. Under the EU’s current form the legislators in Brussels are not democratically accountable to the citizens of the member states. Unfortunately however, I doubt leaving the EU will re-engage disillusioned UK voters.
On the other hand, if we pulled out future right-wing UK governments would have a free hand to hammer workers and ordinary citizens’ fundamental rights as we would no longer be able to seek protection under the EU directives umbrella. European Union directives are an instrument which requires member states to enact its provisions in national legislation. It is no secret that should we leave Europe the Tories would abolish the ‘working time directive’ which gives EU workers the right to a minimum number of holidays each year, paid breaks, and rest of at least 11 hours in any 24 hours; restricts excessive night work; and provides for a right to work no more than 48 hours per week.
24-01-13, 08:04 PM
Judging by the state of the economies of the other countries in Europe I should think getting as much distance from them as possible is the only thing that makes sense. If we don't they will drag us down with them. How are you going to trade with a country that is even more bankrupt than ours??
The whole situation is fcuked.
24-01-13, 08:11 PM
Debates such as this just go on and on because there is no absolute right or wrong - it comes down to individuals opinions and that's what will happen with a vote. Personally I'm pro Europe simply because I don't want a return to trade protectionism and import controls where the rest of Europe would no doubt tax the 50% of our exports that go there into a competitive black hole. I'm willing to take the compromise on legislation where some of it suits us and some of it doesn't. Overall, I'll stay in Europe and expect our government to fight from within rather than outside the union.
I also believe that if you roll the camera forward 500 years the world will have a single federal govt as that's the only way the human race can survive by financing the inevitable task of locating an alternative
planet for us to live. What we're doing now is simply going down that path towards total federalism as the days of small independant governments around the world are numberedControversial huh? ;D ;D
24-01-13, 08:18 PM
Judging by the state of the economies of the other countries in Europe I should think getting as much distance from them as possible is the only thing that makes sense. If we don't they will drag us down with them. How are you going to trade with a country that is even more bankrupt than ours??
The whole situation is fcuked.[/quote]
You can't look at things short term - you have to look at the bigger picture. There will always be peaks and troughs in every economy - that will happen to the UK just as much as it does to any country in Europe. The long term view has to be that the UK needs a strong Europe and then its inevitably a benefit for the UK to be in it rather than excluded and living as a tiny island state all on its own. There's no commonwealth anymore for us to rely on and we need to get used to that. We are second only to Germany in economic and therefore political power - we do have influence in Europe and its better if it stays that way.
24-01-13, 08:25 PM
Snowy, the opposite is happening if you look around the globe. Regions in Spain, Scotland, Middle East states, Old USSR, Yugoslavia and so on. Moving away from federalism as we are witnessing a huge surge in a desire from people in all corners of the world to be independent and enjoy more local democratic control over their own future.Debates such as this just go on and on because there is no absolute right or wrong - it comes down to individuals opinions and that's what will happen with a vote. Personally I'm pro Europe simply because I don't want a return to trade protectionism and import controls where the rest of Europe would no doubt tax the 50% of our exports that go there into a competitive black hole. I'm willing to take the compromise on legislation where some of it suits us and some of it doesn't. Overall, I'll stay in Europe and expect our government to fight from within rather than outside the union.
I also believe that if you roll the camera forward 500 years the world will have a single federal govt as that's the only way the human race can survive by financing the inevitable task of locating an alternative
planet for us to live. What we're doing now is simply going down that path towards total federalism as the days of small independant governments around the world are numbered
You are spot on, on the EU though– there is no right or wrong in this debate, just opinions and it is those opinions which will decide our destiny in the end. I’m a Nick Clegger at the mo – sitting on the fence. :P ;D
Whether we stay or go Europe is still bankrupt. Doomy and gloomy, but still true nonetheless. Worth noting that despite austerity back here in ‘Blighty’ our deficit is still rising.
Oh when will the greedy capitalists throw in the proverbial towel and admit defeat? :
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