Future Ride-Outs !

[Dabz]

Sounds spot on to me. It also shows what a great job our leaders and back markers do - it's not simply a case of riding and letting people follow, or playing catch-up at the back, it's a constant job of watching the pace, keeping an eye on the group riders, dropping and picking up markers...

[Gerry]

Some good points above, good to have your point of view Graeme, as often you look after us at the rear.

Most points above relate to speed, which wasn't my whole focus, it's also the route taken. I suspect no matter what we do, 95% of people won't ride faster or slower than they do now.
My aim was to just make the ride-outs more enjoyable for everybody.
G30 mentioned a "scenic route" perhaps, maybe this would be helpful, a scenic route and a direct route to the destination.
This would help the pain of riding down long slow B roads in 35 MPH convoys, which on a sports bike is not only not fun, it's painful !
Alternatively, I could use it as an excuse to buy an off roader and use that

G

[Roxy]

When I joined WB 2 years ago, the first ride out I did was down to Poole with about 15 others. It was enjoyable but it was also pretty hard riding with people I was not use to. I had done quite a few ride outs with Bath Classic (on modern bikes!) and these guys have been riding for hundreds of years (no offence Dad, BB etc) so I felt completely safe and very comfortable with them, from the slow plodders to the super quick ones (yes they can ride quick!) they are all experienced riders. They too use the marker system which is 99% faultless. Here we have more people, some with bagfuls of skill and experience and some with none (not forgetting the ones who think they have experience and skill but don’t!) It is almost impossible to please everyone with a ride out that we are all happy with considering we are all so different and new people are joining all the time with different levels of skill and what they want from a ride out.

Like Gerry said, some people like to potter and enjoy the scenery and some like to ‘hoon’. Nothing wrong with either of these views or styles of riding but to be perfectly honest the two do not mix very well at all and you end up getting into the arguement of ‘he/she was riding like a cock (in their eyes) or he/she was a danger to others due to the slow speed and general unawareness’ (in their eyes), or 'that road was crap, I hated it and it was unsuitable for my bike'... the list of complaints is endless and I have complained about people/roads in the past due to one thing or another so I know it goes on. The ride outs have such a diverse range of abilities and expectations that one persons overtake is another persons view of riding like a cock or one persons lane position on a RoB is another persons hazard, some people like to roll along gently for the view and others like to play, it’s what makes us all bike enthusiasts.

Rosie posted up about Sundays ride out and so in my eyes, when I read it, I thought it would be more of a ‘potter’ than a ‘hoon’ (no offence intended please Rosie). I came to that conclusion because I know how Rosie rides and the type of speeds she is comfortable with. I then decided that I would like to join the ride knowing that it was going to be a slower paced ride to the ones I generally prefer but I was still very happy to go. You only get this knowledge by riding with people over the course of time so it can be hard for newbies (slow and fast) to judge as to whether the ride out is their pace or not but for those of us who have been members for a while its common knowledge and you make that decision when you put you name of the list. If you don’t like the pace don’t go! (that’s to old members and not new ones of course)

I had the exact same problem last year, a ride out was arranged but at the meeting point we had no leader (due to bike problems) and after asking if anyone else wanted to lead and getting no response I reluctantly said I would rather than the whole thing being cancelled. Now I am not that quick but I am also not that slow so when I heard someone complain that it was ‘too fast’ my response was simple…if you wanted to go at your pace then volunteer to lead (it’s not really that hard) thus keeping the speed down or go on your own ride out, if you feel like it is ‘too fast’ and you are constantly trying to ‘keep up’ then you are pushing yourself out of your comfort zone which is dangerous… the marker system is in place that everyone can go at their own speed and not be left behind … Don’t sit on the side lines, do nothing and then moan about it when you don’t like it. We all have the choice to either go on a ride out or not but you have to accept that some ride outs are slower/faster than others.

With regard to the route, that is a really tricky one. I too hate bumpy/lumpy/ grassy/gravel/sheep filled etc etc B roads, they kill me and my Ars6 but unless we get to the point of posting up the route and then having to work 2 out, I for one would hate to have to ‘plan’ a route that I have no intention of taking my sports bike on just in case peeps turn up who want to go that way?? So the whole 2 routes thing is pointless IMO. You see who is leading, you make a decision and then you go with it or arrange with others to do your own thing on the day.

The ‘Official’ ride outs, in my opinion, should stay the way they are. They are set to encourage people to come out and ride, to give confidence to new riders and to help people with riding in groups. They are a great way of getting to know how others ride and they are enjoyable. From there you can pick and choose as to who you like riding with if their style and pace is similar to yours and then arrange your own little ride outs. Nothing wrong with that at all and it is something I think should be encouraged to stop the mass ride outs with over 30 bikes on which I think is too many!!! The common fact is that the ‘Official’ Ride out is suitable for riders who like a good easy pace, nothing to worry about, it’s relaxed and a good way to join in. If, like on Sunday, there were lots of bikes, I really think it’s a good idea for those of us who prefer to scoot along to sort it out on the day and if we want to go on ahead it’s fine. We can always meet up with the others at the destination but if you choose to go along with the main group you have to accept that it will be at the leaders pace.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy! ;D

Roxy x

[Jon_W]

There's a simple answer which the faster riders won't like but has always been the view of the management...

Wb rides will be sensibly paced and designed for all riders of all abilities including those on small capacity bikes. Those with fast sports bikes who want to ride fast need to organise their own rides.

we simply can't be seen as a group to organise rides which set out to be fast, or have a fast group (whether you call it fast, progressive, fun, or whatever). We have too much to lose if we get a bad rep with the police

Absolutely, well said Dabz.

Rideouts to me are about seeing new roads, new bits of scenery, and being with friends. If I want to go a-hundred-and-plenty mph, I'll do that by myself. I think people need to realise that by nature, rideouts with large groups will be slower. Is the simple rule of having that many vehicle in close proximity to each other. As to the routes, why stick to the a roads. We all ride them all the time.... have an adventure.

[Nelly]

I’ll go along with a lot of the comments on this thread so far. I can’t honestly see a way of changing things to make it any better. We have seen quite a lot of people come “through the ranks” so to speak from first taking their CBT on to getting a full license, upgrading a bigger bike and gaining confidence and I believe a lot of that is made possible by the “official” group ride.
WB is a huge diverse group of people from many backgrounds and walks of life. The one thing they have in common is a love of Bikes. Some choose to ride cruisers, some choose hyper-sports. Horses for courses. You’re hardly likely to buy a ZX10 if you don’t like going fast are you? ;D Some people like to motor along and some prefer a more gentle pace and some (like me) feel like both. I think that’s what makes WB special. It’s open to all. I am always prepared to ride at a steady pace when signing up to an “official” ride as I am pretty certain that there will be anything from 125’s to 1000cc plus on the ride. I tend not to blat along when in an official ride but to sit with the pack until the roads open out so I get to stretch the legs a bit. But, if do fancy a “hoon” one day then I generally take to the roads on my own. That way I know, I’m not holding any one up or conversely losing anyone either. I do actually enjoy looking after newbie’s and the slower paced on official rideouts so it sort of suits me anyway. Plus the good thing about following a leader rider is that more often than not you end up on roads you’ve never ridden before and see routes that you didn’t know existed. So fair play to Rosie, Hunar and the like who are happy leading rides.
I know that, having done it many times myself, that back marking can be a tough job at times. You really do have to have eyes in every corner of your helmet in order to understand what is going on in front of you.
Keep it as it is. It seems to have worked pretty well so far. However, having said that, if the groups do get any bigger, things may have to be looked at again. I don’t think at present we are going to bother anyone in authority as to the size of the groups. Effectively WB rideouts do not close roads or block junctions. I think people only get really concerned if we were to all follow each other in convoy. At present a 30+ bike ride is essentially 30 people on an individual ride, occasionally spread across several miles. Having said that, our friends at the Wiltshire Constabulary are very aware of what we are doing. I was speaking to a serving officer earlier in the year and he told me first hand that the boys and girls in blue DO read the forum. They know when the rideouts are starting from, they know where we are going and they know how many. The particular officer shared with me the fact that we aren’t really on their radar. They know that, in general, we look after our machines, we wear the proper kit, and we have tax/Insurance/MOT etc. However, this of course brings a note of caution. If we were to advertise that people are off for a hoon, you might find a couple of friendlies hidden in the bush somewhere!
30+ bikes travelling to the same destination will always draw attention from all quarters. You only had to be on Swanage seafront on Sunday to see the amount of people that were looking and admiring the mass of gleaming chrome, steel and rubber parked on the path. They stop when we arrive and they stopped and watched when we leave. What we have to remember is that not only do the lead and backmarker wear the name www.wiltshirebikers.co.uk on their back for all so see, but many of us have T-Shirts, Hoodies, and stickers on our bikes and helmets. The admiration of the gleaming machines will quickly disappear if you cut that admirer up two hours later on the way home on double white lines heading for a sharp bend. But he will remember the www.wiltshirebikers.co.uk that you were displaying earlier. He may be a street cleaner from Bristol but then again he could quite possibly be the Chief Constable of Hampshire’s finest. If he is, you can guarantee that he will be on the phone to his neighbouring CC at the earliest opportunity. Hence, on the two occasions when I have been tugged whilst out on my solo hoons in the recent past, I have deliberately added distance between me and any club or forum by hiding the stickers on the bike or helmet when chatting to the said officer What I’m trying to say is that if we have advertised "hoons", we are going to attract the wrong type of attention and get ourselves on the radar. Something that I don’t think we want.
Let’s keep the rideouts as is. And if an “unofficial” one comes up and you wonder whether it’s a fast or slow ride? Find out what sort of bike the organiser or leader has, that’ll be a pretty good clue

Have a nice day y'all 8-)

[SueZX4]

I'm not making excuses for us slow smaller bike newbies, but the law is tougher for us on speeding then more experienced riders. If we get caught speeding I think only twice in the first year we get to retake both parts of our test. Yippee. Personally don't want to do that! Yes there were a lot of bikes Sunday, which can be intimidating but it's something you get used to and is great to meet so many good people and is good fun. I'm sorry if people like me were holding others up. The ride was posted as 125 friendly, so thought I would be fine on my 400, at the time I felt I was keeping up with the pace and I enjoyed it. Feel abit disheartened now that some people felt the ride was too slow. :-/

[Nelly]

I'm not making excuses for us slow smaller bike newbies, but the law is tougher for us on speeding then more experienced riders. If we get caught speeding I think only twice in the first year we get to retake both parts of our test. Yippee. Personally don't want to do that! Yes there were a lot of bikes Sunday, which can be intimidating but it's something you get used to and is great to meet so many good people and is good fun. I'm sorry if people like me were holding others up. The ride was posted as 125 friendly, so thought I would be fine on my 400, at the time I felt I was keeping up with the pace and I enjoyed it. Feel abit disheartened now that some people felt the ride was too slow. :-/

I don't think anyone was saying that the riders were too slow Sue. It's nice to see people like you fitting in. The route had a slower pace pace because of the route, not the riders.

[470four]

I'm not making excuses for us slow smaller bike newbies, but the law is tougher for us on speeding then more experienced riders. If we get caught speeding I think only twice in the first year we get to retake both parts of our test. Yippee. Personally don't want to do that! Yes there were a lot of bikes Sunday, which can be intimidating but it's something you get used to and is great to meet so many good people and is good fun. I'm sorry if people like me were holding others up. The ride was posted as 125 friendly, so thought I would be fine on my 400, at the time I felt I was keeping up with the pace and I enjoyed it. Feel abit disheartened now that some people felt the ride was too slow. :-/

Sue - DONT WORRY!
Thirty-eight - odd riders will mean many different bike types and many different riders - I was happy enough pootling in the middle somewhere? We have to reach a happy average for everybody, ride at your own pace, nobody is forcing you to pin it everywhere...

As already mentioned - if there is a "fast" group that want to ride on ahead sperately, then let them go! Means they get to free up their testosterone problem without granting us some truly unique & downright dangerous overtaking on their way back up to the front after marking... : I would rather ride with somebody steady and safe than some Hothead on the edge.

[Roxy]

I'm not making excuses for us slow smaller bike newbies, but the law is tougher for us on speeding then more experienced riders. If we get caught speeding I think only twice in the first year we get to retake both parts of our test. Yippee. Personally don't want to do that! Yes there were a lot of bikes Sunday, which can be intimidating but it's something you get used to and is great to meet so many good people and is good fun. I'm sorry if people like me were holding others up. The ride was posted as 125 friendly, so thought I would be fine on my 400, at the time I felt I was keeping up with the pace and I enjoyed it. Feel abit disheartened now that some people felt the ride was too slow. :-/

Sue - please don't worry about the faster riders or that fact that some think it was too slow. The ride was suitable for all levels, all cc's, speeds and abilities and that's the way Rosie posted up so you were spot on to join and to enjoy it .

If a faster rider wants to get past they will, as long as you are aware of them on the road and be aware they may be overtaking if they have just marked a junction, you just keep a check on your mirrors, move over to the left to give them a bit of room if you do see them, you know where they are.

Riding in a group can be tricky but what you have to remember is you are all entitled to be there.

Some slower inexperianced riders on smaller bikes can sometimes get into the habit of what I call 'lemming syndrome' (I did this when I first started because I was so nervous of riding in a group) where they settle into a pace that is comfortable and they just follow the person in front of them and can sometimes switch off to what is going on around them. I am not saying that is what all people do but it does happen sometimes. When a faster rider goes past they can startle them or they pull out to overtake without checking mirrors to find they have a sports bike 'up thier chuff' ..there are so many things that can happen when you mix slow/fast but if everyone is aware of the other riders it eliminates alot of the problems.

Please please don't feel like you held anyone up, you certainly didn't and thats not the issue at all. The ride worked very well considering the amount of riders there on sunday.

Hope to see you again on a ride out!

Roxy x

[JayP]

As a newbie I'm probably not really qualified to post on this but here's my two penneth anyway. My view is if it aint broke don't fix it. It sounds as if the current system has worked well for some time and that Sunday's numbers were a bit of a freak event. If similar numbers are reached on the next couple of ride outs maybe something does need to change, if not, maybe this is a bit of a storm in a teacup? That was my first ride out and from my perspective it was great. I read the rideout 'rules' before I went, and Rosie reiterated the point about looking out for faster riders and letting them pass. It was a good lesson in blindspots for me, after I nearly moved into the path of one of the said fast overtaking bikes - I only did it once and made bloody sure I kept a good check in my mirrors thereafter. Maybe I overcompensated a bit because at times it felt like I was spending more time looking behind me than in front! I really enjoyed being part of a big group. I also valued being behind more experienced riders so I could watch the lines they took and so on. Keeping things as they are but allowing faster riders to form a splinter group having first informed the lead rider sounds like a good compromise to me.