The EU found away to reduce motorcycle use without banning it. Would like to see more young riders learning and be safer
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...ths/26390.html
The EU found away to reduce motorcycle use without banning it. Would like to see more young riders learning and be safer
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...ths/26390.html
Why would they take it. At 17 they can ride a geared 125cc, on L plates for the cost of a CBT. The only licence they can do is the A1 which means they can ride a geared 125, the only bonus is they lose the L plates and can carry a pillion or use a motorway (not appealing on a 4t 125)...... for those awesome extras over just a CBT they will pay almost £150 in test fee's (including theory) and that is if they DIY it and pass all parts 1st time using their own bike. If they need lessons the costs multiplies in to the many hundreds.
The EU is trying to legislate motorcycles off the road. They make their accident statistics look bad because there are a high number of serious or fatal accidents. Never mind addressing the actual problem which is poor driving standards across Europe, just target the symptom and make it so hard to get a licence or own a motorcycle that most won't bother
Spot on. There's absolutely nothing to encourage 17 yr olds to go for the license when cbt is enough. Most cut their L plates down so small that they're barely visible anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by WR6133
noticed this as cant sell used scooters at the moment. new riders arent learning, and those that do are buying throw away chinese.
going for the older car drivers they dont need to do a cbt if they can get away with a scoot, I look after one for a 45 year old and have rebuilt the motor so many times as he is running it down straights at full bore that Ive just had to swap the motor. he wont do cbt or direct access due to cost, as he can get a small car instead!!
we keep trying to convince him that a bike is cheaper but he just wont.
its just the same as back in the seventies, as soon as I passed my car test I didnt need the bike. mates to carry round, family to carry , the mini has a lot to answer for.
I agree Alan. I think there is clearly a hidden agenda here to get motorcycles off the road. Unfortunately, the biking community carries little clout at the ballot box and by the time we wake up to it, it will be too late. Of course the powers that be are not going to ban motorbikes, but there is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
My lad did CBT at 16 but only rode his 'ped for a few monhts as all his mates had cars, passed his car test just before his 18th birthday last year, it's pretty hard to justify a bike on economy grounds against a small car unless you run a 125 or similar and no where near as convenient or safe.
He's just coming up 19 and talking about maybe doing his bike test, part of me would love him to experience the freedom of two wheels but a big part of me is nervous of the safety implications.
Absolutely. And not just young riders. I know plenty of older riders who use 125s for commuting and just re-take the CBT as the test is too much hassle and money. There is no incentive to take the test.Quote:
Originally Posted by WR6133
Before shouting Euroland is trying to kill biking we have not implemented the European rules properly/how they were intended. It may be the UK is trying to kill biking more than Europe is.
Some little gems people don't know about 3DLD because they were buried over here and not implemented
Quote:
Category A1:
— motorcycles with a cylinder capacity not exceeding 125 cubic centimetres, of a power not exceeding 11 kW and with a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0,1 kW/kg,
— motor tricycles with a power not exceeding 15 kW,
— the minimum age for category A1 is fixed at 16 years;
Quote:
Category A2:
— motorcycles of a power not exceeding 35 kW and with a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0,2 kW/kg and not derived from a vehicle of more than double its power,
— the minimum age for category A2 is fixed at 18 years;
and the big one the thing that is really putting kids off bikes..... having to take 3 tests to get to a full A licence........... that was not what was actually mandated, there is clear allowance for a "training" route to upgrade a licence after holding it for 2 years rather than the current "test" route.Quote:
Category A:
(i) motorcycles
— The minimum age for category A is fixed at 20 years. However, access to the driving of motorcycles of this category shall be subject to a minimum of two years' experience on motorcycles under an A2 licence. This requirement as to previous experience may be waived if the candidate is at least 24 years old.
(ii) motor tricycles with a power exceeding 15 kW
— The minimum age for motor tricycles exceeding 15 kW is fixed at 21 years.
So had we implemented 3DLD to the letter......Quote:
(c) who have, as regards category A2 or category A, on the condition of having acquired a minimum of 2 years' experience on a motorcycle in category A1 or in category A2 respectively, passed a test of skills and behaviour only, or completed a training pursuant to Annex VI;
Kid gets A1 at 16, aged 18 he could do some training with his local school and gets A2, 2 years after that some more training and he has a full licence.
They also offer the ability to grant an A1 licence to anyone holding a B licence (car), though it would only be valid on the member states own territory.
For anyone interested in the full text it is here http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...LEX:32006L0126 that is the actual genuine text, the stuff google throws up has been altered by parties with their own agendas (UK gov, ROSPA, BMF, etc).Quote:
3. For driving on their territory, Member States may grant the following equivalences:
(a) motor tricycles under a licence for category B, for motor tricycles with a power exceeding 15 kW provided that the holder of the licence for category B is at least 21 years old;
(b) category A1 motorcycles under a licence for category B.
I agree with WR6133 and others that it's much less about legislation and more about economy, by the time you buy several bikes (one for each stage of the test route) and all the gear as we now couldn't possibly ride a motorcycle without 'all the gear, all the time' it is much more practical for youngsters to pass their car test and have effective and economical transport for themselves and their mates. Like it or not riding motorcycle is a style choice more than economical transport. For most it is something we do because we want to and because we enjoy it. One of my sons followed the CBT/125 route, thoroughly enjoyed riding and wants to progress to bigger bikes but the cost is just prohibitive as he can afford a bike or a car but not both and he needs the car for work.
If someone invented bikes today they would be banned before they even got on the roads
I am of an age to remember when the streets was empty, when a car was a dream, and a pipe dream at that, when men walked or got a bus or had a bicycle too go too work and if lucky enough could just about save up for a motorcycle, at the time the lack of training and proper testing, and lack of legislation surrounding safety equipment lead to carnage on the roads, this lead to the motorcycle getting the reputation of being death traps, now much of this has changed but the motorcycles reputation has largely not, I believe that this is now unjustifiable, but going back in time the motorcycle was always hobson's choice, and the car would if could be the first choice, now car's over the years have become great value for money, and hobson's choice has become very much less so, servicing chargers, mpg, and so on. this I believe is more too do with why motorcycles are not so popular, on the up side I got into motorcycling 20 years ago because of the traffic jams and It's got a lot worse since then, this maybe will lead to more seeing literally the way forward.
Why do the governments hate motorcycles so much? We all know they couldn't careless about us as people
'Silver' riders passed a long time ago before all this multi stage testing, youngsters statistically don't vote hence Governments don't care.
If they could find more ways of screwing money out of us they might listen more, but then maybe one day road fund might be used to fund pothole repairs.
My 2p worth. I believe it all stems from Europe - as part of the standardization of licenses. Other european countries, like France for example have multistage tests, and then their argument is why should a UK license equal a French license if they don't have to pass as many tests as we do? So the test is going towards the highest common factor to suit all other euro countries. I wouldn't be surprised if new license holders are obliged to undertake a basic first aid course, so that they can be able to assist if they are first upon the scene of an accident, as is compelled to do in France.
(Not that I am against motorists knowing basic first aid, although that is perhaps another complete debate on its own)
Sounds like too much legislation ... It is always good to have a knowledge of first aid .... you never know when you may need it .... I have only done 2 CPR jobs in my life ... I recall telling one old chap not to fu**ing die while I was doing CPR ... he did as he was told! they lived until the ambulances got there ... don't know if they survived hospital though ... but do you need it as a biker ? Richard. :confused:
Just glad I got in about 2 months before the new laws! CBT at 17 on a 125cc, A2 test at 18 on a 500cc and fully unrestricted on a 900cc at 20!