View Full Version : Local boy done good...
Mitch9128
15-09-15, 09:18 PM
Can't believe there's no thread on him yet, Ken is slacking. So Jeremy Corbyn, born and brought up in Kington st Michael, future leader, or forever opposition? Personally i would vote him in tomorrow, he'll bring a fairness to society that will make Thatcher turn in her grave. Maximum wages instead of minimum wages, renationalise the railways, and scrap the hs2 that would make the whole of the north, commuter towns for London. What say the Wiltshire massive?
Would be a breath of fresh air having someone half human in No.10 for a change instead of the emotionless bean counters that we've become accustomed to .
Vulcanboy
15-09-15, 10:05 PM
Even Corbyn isn't stupid enough to stand as a Commie ... but the majority of voters know what he's about! He and his ilk are going nowhere. The thought, expressed by some leftish punters, that labour lost the election because they were not left enough, confirms that they have absolutely no idea of what the real British public, wanted, think about, and voted for, and why. To be a successful leftie you need to be rich and successful at fleecing the poor ... to be really successful, those poor people who have been fleeced, have to be duped into believing they haven't been sh*t upon! .. the Tories should give Corbyn a medal .... for services rendered ....
Even Corbyn isn't stupid enough to stand as a Commie ... but the majority of voters know what he's about! He and his ilk are going nowhere. The thought, expressed by some leftish punters, that labour lost the election because they were not left enough, confirms that they have absolutely no idea of what the real British public, wanted, think about, and voted for, and why. To be a successful leftie you need to be rich and successful at fleecing the poor ... to be really successful, those poor people who have been fleeced, have to be duped into believing they haven't been sh*t upon! .. the Tories should give Corbyn a medal .... for services rendered ....
The "Real British Public" don't really know what they want.If we did we wouldn't tolerate one shower after another , spoon feeding us whatever they consider to be good for us .
Uber Dave
15-09-15, 10:44 PM
The fact he didn't sing the national anthem at the Battle of Britain memorial ceremony today says all I need to know about the man and he won't be getting my vote.
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redken1
15-09-15, 11:15 PM
Ecstatic, now that New Labour is Old Labour and Old Labour is New Labour and the tail has moved back to the back of the dog, where it should be, I applied to join yesterday. Not to sit on my arse, but to become active and hopefully pass on some of my many years of political campaigning experience to the many new young members who feel connected and energised by the leadership campaign. Oh how the right wing media and politicians took the piss out of him, so we should thank them for helping Corbyn to win this historic unprecedented victory. Who are the 'commies' and the 'real British' people?' Perhaps the tide is turning after 36 years of right of centre governments. I followed the rise of the SNP and the more the British mainstream media and 3 right wing unionist parties mocked them the more popular they became. The old muck slinging is not working anymore. Joe Public will get sick of it eventually. Let us not forget that all the other 3 leadership candidates stood on a pro austerity ticket and Corbyn obliterated them with nearly 60% of the vote from across the spectrum of the party. 5 more years of cuts and I think you might see a change of mood in the country and of course the EU question will play a big part in deciding the next election. Half the Tory party want in and half want out. Not a done deal and all to play for.
Mitch9128
16-09-15, 06:52 AM
The fact he didn't sing the national anthem at the Battle of Britain memorial ceremony today says all I need to know about the man and he won't be getting my vote.
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He's a republican, would you rather he was a hypocrit, and did sing it? Despite 10 years in the army, albeit a while ago now, i have never sang it, or at least not since i can remember. It was nothing to do with the battle of britain, or any commemeration, the national anthem is a toadying ditty to liz and her family of leeches.
Mitch9128
16-09-15, 08:05 AM
Even Corbyn isn't stupid enough to stand as a Commie ... but the majority of voters know what he's about! He and his ilk are going nowhere. The thought, expressed by some leftish punters, that labour lost the election because they were not left enough, confirms that they have absolutely no idea of what the real British public, wanted, think about, and voted for, and why. To be a successful leftie you need to be rich and successful at fleecing the poor ... to be really successful, those poor people who have been fleeced, have to be duped into believing they haven't been sh*t upon! .. the Tories should give Corbyn a medal .... for services rendered ....
Corbyn may be a socialist, but he's not a communist. As for what the British public want, is it to bail out the banks with our money again, so the bankers don't lose their millions? Is it to keep the defecit going forever, so that we're all happy to endure austerity measures forever? Is it to make us all commute into London, and have no business or industry elsewhere? Is it to see executives wages rise astronomically, whilst ours stagnate? Need i go on?
I want to like Corbyn, a lot of what he says makes sense. However his CND anti nuclear weapons stance would stop me voting for him.
As for the National anthem, what a storm in a teacup. I can count on 1 finger how many times I sang that as a soldier so I don't think it's key to remembering those that served in the slightest (hell I know more words to the Internationale and the Red flag than god save the queen). Hymns are sung at Remembrance services, the anthem was only included there to massage the ego of 1 attendee.
Good luck too him and if he changes his view on Trident I may actually bother voting.
The fact he didn't sing the national anthem at the Battle of Britain memorial ceremony today says all I need to know about the man and he won't be getting my vote.
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+1 for that, unlikely I would be voting Labour now absolutely 100% certain I won't be, would be a disaster for the country if he got in. Probably a nice bloke but I want a PM who knows more about running a country than I do
Mitch9128
16-09-15, 10:15 AM
I want to like Corbyn, a lot of what he says makes sense. However his CND anti nuclear weapons stance would stop me voting for him.
As for the National anthem, what a storm in a teacup. I can count on 1 finger how many times I sang that as a soldier so I don't think it's key to remembering those that served in the slightest (hell I know more words to the Internationale and the Red flag than god save the queen). Hymns are sung at Remembrance services, the anthem was only included there to massage the ego of 1 attendee.
Good luck too him and if he changes his view on Trident I may actually bother voting.
His views are scrap trident and spend the money on nations wellbeing, including investing in the armed forces. Not cutting them, and having married privates on income support. No-one is ever gonna use them, so why spend money where none is needed, Sheet if anyone did, we're all ferked anyway.
Mitch9128
16-09-15, 10:15 AM
+1 for that, unlikely I would be voting Labour now absolutely 100% certain I won't be, would be a disaster for the country if he got in. Probably a nice bloke but I want a PM who knows more about running a country than I do
A disaster? Do tell how?
married privates on income support.
Not sure how needed that is. Yes a fresh crowbag has a fairly low income but the outgoings are also very low (unless things have massively changed). My old quarter (Zouch, Tidworth, 2 bed flat) cost me under £180 a month (and that included the CILOCT charge), so even though my take home pay didn't seem huge at the time it was actually pretty good with that little paid for accommodation. The equivalent civvy bottom rung, low pay job would have been looking at £700+ a month for an equivalent 2 bed flat in the same area, even taking in to account things like housing benefit they would have been worse off.
Yes I bitched and moaned about crap pay at the time but looking back now I'm a civvy I realise it was actually a bloody good deal.
Mitch9128
16-09-15, 10:55 AM
Not sure how needed that is. Yes a fresh crowbag has a fairly low income but the outgoings are also very low (unless things have massively changed). My old quarter (Zouch, Tidworth, 2 bed flat) cost me under £180 a month (and that included the CILOCT charge), so even though my take home pay didn't seem huge at the time it was actually pretty good with that little paid for accommodation. The equivalent civvy bottom rung, low pay job would have been looking at £700+ a month for an equivalent 2 bed flat in the same area, even taking in to account things like housing benefit they would have been worse off.
Yes I bitched and moaned about crap pay at the time but looking back now I'm a civvy I realise it was actually a bloody good deal.
Think it's called Tax credits now, doesn't matter if your outgoings are low, the wage is pants, so you get it. I know of Signallers on it, either way Trident is a waste of money, where it could be better spent, the last quarter i had, had been condemned several times, and approved for use several times, to suit returning regiments from Germany.
redken1
16-09-15, 11:00 AM
Everyone has their own reasons for voting for who they wish and that is a matter for the individual. However, with regard to the national anthem, some of the wording does throw up some interesting questions. The following extracts for example;
"God save the Queen"
"And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush"
Are we saying that atheist republicans should be expected to call on 'God' to save an unelected Head of State?
And should we expect that all of the 1,617,989 'rebellious' Scots who voted against the union in last year's independence referendum should be expected to sing the national anthem of the UK?
As a democrat, the answer for me to both questions has to be a resounding no.
I will never forget all those that paid the ultimate sacrifice to protect our freedom to make our own choices, which includes which songs we choose to sing.
It will be interesting to see what he does from now on as I think he's a choice 1) Stick to firmly to his beliefs and principals - and lead labour to a glorious massive failure at the next election 2) Go back on the far left views that got him where he is, and risk being branded a hypocrite and having his supporters disown him or 3) Stir things up for a few months or a year and resign before he's booted out by the majority of his party colleagues when they realise that they will never be drawing member of parliament salaries !
You will always get the looney left and looney right, but thank God I think the majority of the British public are sensible enough to know that you can't have either in power.
The thoughts of him representing "us" when dealing with other countries presidents and prime ministers makes me shudder, he would be a complete embarrassment !
Saying that, I'm sure the likes of old Russia and North Korea etc will like him ;-)
On the other hand, if he gets into No 10 (he'll probably live in a caravan in the back garden) I reserve the right to join the Ban the Bomb, Save the Whales, Up the Workers groups and dig my old flares out of the bottom of the wardrobe :-)
Ken, I didn't realise I was humming to a suggestion of Scott crushing - cool :-)
Bring back William Wallace and Gromit I say, great films.
Edited: I take that all back, I have just remembered that when I went to Inverness last time the Polish guy in the Scottish shop said that Simpson was a Scottish name and I even had my very own tartan !
Good to see he got voted in to lead Labour. It gives the Conservatives more time to sort out the last Labour cock up. People forget we are in this mess because of the last Labour government. You can't run up debt without having to pay it back.
redken1
16-09-15, 12:51 PM
Gerry, you express concern that Corbyn would be an 'embarrassment' dealing with leaders of other states. Do you mean like our PM, when ahead of a speech in Leeds, he said: "We just thought people in Yorkshire hated everyone else, we didn't realise they hated each other so much"? To be fair to him he wasn't about to address a Russian or US audience. Lol
A disaster? Do tell how?
unsustainable benefits system, raise of union power, zero credibility on international stage, out of EU, increased taxes, ineffective economic policy, negative climate for business, weak response to terrorist threat, yet more cyclists and beards stay in fashion
Mitch9128
16-09-15, 01:34 PM
Good to see he got voted in to lead Labour. It gives the Conservatives more time to sort out the last Labour cock up. People forget we are in this mess because of the last Labour government. You can't run up debt without having to pay it back.
Really? 'Cos Dave told you that, didn't he. That debt has always been there, and you know what, it will always be there under a Tory government, because with it, they can keep cutting services under austerity measures.
Mitch9128
16-09-15, 01:39 PM
unsustainable benefits system, raise of union power, zero credibility on international stage, out of EU, increased taxes, ineffective economic policy, negative climate for business, weak response to terrorist threat, yet more cyclists and beards stay in fashion
The unsustainable benefits are the pensioners, no-one else.
He plans to stop cutting the unions powers, not raise them.
No idea where you get the credibility quip from, or why?
Unlikely to leave EU, as the rest of Labour want in.
Increased taxes, yes, for the rich, and tax dodgers, not you or i.
Economic policy is yet another baseless quip, as is the business one.
Weak response to terrorist threat, how? What terrorists?
I have a beard, and ride a cycle, bang on trend.
The unsustainable benefits are the pensioners, no-one else.
He plans to stop cutting the unions powers, not raise them.
No idea where you get the credibility quip from, or why?
Unlikely to leave EU, as the rest of Labour want in.
Increased taxes, yes, for the rich, and tax dodgers, not you or i.
Economic policy is yet another baseless quip, as is the business one.
Weak response to terrorist threat, how? What terrorists?
I have a beard, and ride a cycle, bang on trend.
Not sure you know how well off I am but thanks anyway, you've put my mind completely at ease on all those points
Mitch9128
16-09-15, 02:18 PM
Not sure you know how well off I am but thanks anyway, you've put my mind completely at ease on all those points
If you fall into the rich category, i hope you get taxed proportionally :)
If you fall into the rich category, i hope you get taxed proportionally :)
Depends what you call rich, all I know is that I pay a **** load of tax both personally and through my business although not sure it's proportional to anything, certainly doesn't feel like it come January & July ; )
Gerry, you express concern that Corbyn would be an 'embarrassment' dealing with leaders of other states. Do you mean like our PM, when ahead of a speech in Leeds, he said: "We just thought people in Yorkshire hated everyone else, we didn't realise they hated each other so much"? To be fair to him he wasn't about to address a Russian or US audience. Lol
Don't mention Leeds folk to me - Southern shandy drinking puffs lol
Vulcanboy
16-09-15, 05:10 PM
... to his credit, Corbyn's approach to MP Questions was 'different', and he acquitted himself well ! Fair dinkum ...
redken1
16-09-15, 11:36 PM
Corbyn has certainly livened up the political discussion around the country and his election has even acted as a catalyst for a stimulating and respectful debate on WB. Allow me to come in again because I think alot of people who are blaming the last Labour administration (quite rightly so) for many of the problems we now face, are missing a fundamental point. As a Labour MP under Blair and Brown, Corbyn must take part collective responsibility for the mistakes of those two administrations - I accept that. That said however, the Labour Party he leads now bears no resemblance to those two administrations except in name. Furthermore, Corbyn voted against the Iraqi invasion, the Tories supported it. He voted against PPP or PFI which has saddled future generations with unaffordable debt, the Tories supported it. He opposed the deregulation of the banking sector, the Tories didn't think Brown went far enough. A pattern is developing here and I could go on. We have had a far right of centre government now for 5 years blaming the last right of centre government for the current state of the country. We don't need two Tory parties and thankfully the Labour membership finally woke up to that realisation. A real alternative now exists and that has got to be a good thing for democracy.
Whilst I accept what you say is true Ken, he also voted against 496 other motions against his own party (roughly).
It's really easy to not have any power or responsibility and simply be against almost everything those that are actually in power (or wish to be) come up with, but I'm sure that he will be in for a shock now he's the one who has got to come up with policies that will both hold the party together (he's lost on that one already) and give them a chance to gain power next time.
In all organisations there are outsiders who just sit and snipe at others who are trying to do their best at running the things, it's easy, they just pick the very few things where they turned where they turned out to be right and shout "I told you so" and conveniently forget all the other times when they were anti and things turned out good. The boot is on the other foot now :-)
redken1
17-09-15, 11:11 AM
Or you could look at it another way Gerry. We are not talking about a business, but a political party which was formed to represent ordinary people. I would argue that rather than leaving a sinking ship, Corbyn along with others fought to bring Labour back to its roots and its founding principles, which are more relevant now than ever. Since he was elected as leader 14,500 new people have signed up to the party and it now enjoys its biggest membership since Blair's most popular days in 1999. I would suggest that this shows that my view that Labour left its core members many years ago and sold its soul for gold is shared by many on the left. Let's be honest, if he was Mandela and his deputy was Gandhi and they both sang the national anthem with straight ties, the right would attack Labour and I wouldn't expect anything else. Whatever, very interesting times ahead.
PS if the old Blairites feel like fish out of water they do have the option of joining the Tory party. Lol
Depends what you call rich, all I know is that I pay a **** load of tax both personally and through my business although not sure it's proportional to anything, certainly doesn't feel like it come January & July ; )
Amen to this - I run a business but it's hard to see the reward when you get taxed heavily for taking any profits out (moreso now they're changing the dividend tax rules), and if you leave the money in you pay load sin tax anyway.
People complain about the "rich" but do they realise that 20p in every pound a business makes goes straight to the government, after you've already paid 20% in VAT, and then if you take out enough in wages to make up for the long days and sleepless nights you pay 40p in every pound to the goverment.
Imagine my business bills a customer £100. We pay £20 over to the government in VAT. Of the £80 that's left we pay a further £16 in corporation tax, so we have £64 left. If I pay £20 of that to a staff member I have £44 left except the government charges me a further £2.2 in tax because I paid it to the member of staff (even though they themselves also paid £4 in tax!). I have £41.80 left from that £100 we worked hard to earn, so I think I deserve £30 of it, but if I do that often enough then I'm in the higher tax bracket and only receive £24 of it.
So I get £24 for every £100 billed. Ok, bit of an extreme example and it's not exactly like that with tax free earnings etc, but the sentiment is right. The working class might be hard done by but it's annoying when everyone makes out that those who run businesses have it easy.
shiftyblake
17-09-15, 12:57 PM
I couldn't give a flying fekk about any of them. But I do feel for the guys who fought in the Falklands having to listen to him being congratulated by the Argentinian Prime Minster as he wants a joint a joint administration there and Gerry Adams pleased as he fought for Replucanism in Ireland. I also think the Torys are tw@ts wanting to make strikers wear arm bands and report their details to the police first !!!
Oldbiker61
17-09-15, 01:31 PM
As a veteran I'm with you shifty
Amen to this - I run a business but it's hard to see the reward when you get taxed heavily for taking any profits out (moreso now they're changing the dividend tax rules), and if you leave the money in you pay load sin tax anyway.
People complain about the "rich" but do they realise that 20p in every pound a business makes goes straight to the government, after you've already paid 20% in VAT, and then if you take out enough in wages to make up for the long days and sleepless nights you pay 40p in every pound to the goverment.
Imagine my business bills a customer £100. We pay £20 over to the government in VAT. Of the £80 that's left we pay a further £16 in corporation tax, so we have £64 left. If I pay £20 of that to a staff member I have £44 left except the government charges me a further £2.2 in tax because I paid it to the member of staff (even though they themselves also paid £4 in tax!). I have £41.80 left from that £100 we worked hard to earn, so I think I deserve £30 of it, but if I do that often enough then I'm in the higher tax bracket and only receive £24 of it. So I get £24 for every £100 billed. Ok, bit of an extreme example and it's not exactly like that with tax free earnings etc, but the sentiment is right. The working class might be hard done by but it's annoying when everyone makes out that those who run businesses have it easy.
James if it wasn't for you and other people who run businesses paying taxes then there wouldn't be a country. People on benefits use it as a way of life rather then a step between jobs. If Corbyn got in then there wouldn't be any poor as he would pay everyone lots, no underfunded health services because he would just print more money and no need for a nuclear deterrent as the whole world would live as one and in peace and harmony (I'll have some of what he is drinking or smoking as it sounds amazing)
If you ask me Facebook has a lot to answer for - too many people believe every photoshopped picture or completely fabricated claim and it wins votes
Amen to this - I run a business but it's hard to see the reward when you get taxed heavily for taking any profits out (moreso now they're changing the dividend tax rules), and if you leave the money in you pay load sin tax anyway.
People complain about the "rich" but do they realise that 20p in every pound a business makes goes straight to the government, after you've already paid 20% in VAT, and then if you take out enough in wages to make up for the long days and sleepless nights you pay 40p in every pound to the goverment.
Imagine my business bills a customer £100. We pay £20 over to the government in VAT. Of the £80 that's left we pay a further £16 in corporation tax, so we have £64 left. If I pay £20 of that to a staff member I have £44 left except the government charges me a further £2.2 in tax because I paid it to the member of staff (even though they themselves also paid £4 in tax!). I have £41.80 left from that £100 we worked hard to earn, so I think I deserve £30 of it, but if I do that often enough then I'm in the higher tax bracket and only receive £24 of it.
So I get £24 for every £100 billed. Ok, bit of an extreme example and it's not exactly like that with tax free earnings etc, but the sentiment is right. The working class might be hard done by but it's annoying when everyone makes out that those who run businesses have it easy.
Dabz, I don't want to question your maths but if you manage to keep £24 of every £30 you pay yourself then I need to have a word with your accountant ; )
On second look my maths is way out on that last bit... :) gotta wonder how I manage to run a business lol
On second look my maths is way out on that last bit... :) gotta wonder how I manage to run a business lol
'cos you're doing it for the challenge rather than the money of course ; )
Definitely, if I was doing it for money I'd have given up 10 years ago!
Uber Dave
17-09-15, 09:22 PM
If you ask me Facebook has a lot to answer for - too many people believe every photoshopped picture or completely fabricated claim and it wins votes
Dont get me started, the amount of utter rubbish people share blindly at the moment without so much as a reverse image search or just googleing the damn topic is unreal. I have removed a couple of people on the back of it actually.
I couldn't give a flying fekk about any of them. But I do feel for the guys who fought in the Falklands having to listen to him being congratulated by the Argentinian Prime Minster as he wants a joint a joint administration there and Gerry Adams pleased as he fought for Replucanism in Ireland. I also think the Torys are tw@ts wanting to make strikers wear arm bands and report their details to the police first !!!
I was deployed down there during the 30th Anniversary of the war and to say the Argentinians were taking the piss is an understatement, constant infringements of airspace amongst some other stuff I wont go into on here. On top of that they just bought some long range bombers from the Russians and have been quite vocal of late regarding the whole thing. The second we show any sort of lack of interest like the last time round they will be there quicker than you can imagine and we will look like a pretty poor excuse of a country without the Navy we had 33 years ago to go back down and sort it out. The UK on the world stage would be a shell of its former self!
redken1
17-09-15, 11:34 PM
James I don't think the owners of small businesses run well have anything to fear. But not all businesses/ companies follow a moral compass and share your sense of ethical values. We can't continue ignoring the likes of Starbucks and Amazon with their clever accountants, and HSBC helping them to exploit tax dodging schemes. And then we have the millions of recruitment agency employees, many on the minimum wage with agencies milking off £2, £3 and sometimes £4 and over an hour from them. Most of the agencies contract out the payroll service to umbrella companies and the employees are then forced to pay these companies to pay them. Thousands if not millions of these agency workers are working alongside company employees doing the same job for far less money and nothing like the same working conditions. And the law whereby such companies are compelled to offer the agency workers the same contracts as their own employees after 12 weeks is meaningless in most sectors, because the agency workers are simply made redundant and new staff employed under the same arrangement. Zero hours contracts? Offer zero and expect zero in return. How can any employee feel valued or plan for the future on Zero hours contracts? Now we will see under 25s discriminated against in the workplace as they are exempt from the minimum wage, Ordinary workers won't unite behind a government which is hell bent on creating a 'us and them' attitude in the workplace. At a time when industrial disputes are historically low, what does the government do? It attacks the unions. We must not forget that we elect our politicians to represent us first and foremost, not business. Corbyn or not, if we continue to ignore basic justice and fairness in the workplace there is huge trouble ahead.
Should never start a discussion of politics or religion. We all have our own points to put across. Some would love Labour to get back in others like me would prefer a country to be run properly where at some point it has to pay it's debts as we all have to do in life. Hopefully for most of us he will remain as opposition up to and after the next election and will just become another Ed Millibland
Mitch9128
18-09-15, 01:58 PM
Should never start a discussion of politics or religion. We all have our own points to put across. Some would love Labour to get back in others like me would prefer a country to be run properly where at some point it has to pay it's debts as we all have to do in life. Hopefully for most of us he will remain as opposition up to and after the next election and will just become another Ed Millibland
The debt/defecit has always been there, the tories would love to convince you they are reducing it, when in fact they are maintaining it. By maintaining it, they can keep the austerity measures in place, and introduce more and more, to reduce the defecit of course. £100bn Trident would be a good start to reduce some debt, no-one is ever going to use it, what's the point?
Uber Dave
18-09-15, 03:33 PM
The debt/defecit has always been there, the tories would love to convince you they are reducing it, when in fact they are maintaining it. By maintaining it, they can keep the austerity measures in place, and introduce more and more, to reduce the defecit of course. £100bn Trident would be a good start to reduce some debt, no-one is ever going to use it, what's the point?
Right I am going to bite here. Its called a deterrant for a reason, just because we have never used them doesnt mean we do not need them. Other countries aside in terms of what they are and are not developing, trident means we keep a permanant seat on the UN Security council and maintain a veto right. Give up Tridant, give up that right.
Not only that the countries who are actively seeking to develop nuclear capability (Iran and North Korea are the two big ones) are the exact reason we need to keep it. Its not so much the state we need to consider, but the ability for a group such as ISIS to capture and use it for their own reasons. The ability to strike first in a situation like this should not be given up under any circumstances as the alternative wouldnt be worth living for.
Anyone who seriously thinks we can afford to get rid of the nuclear deterrant to save a tiny bit of money in the schem of things to spend on who knows what must live with their head in the clouds and has no real understanding of a far far bigger picture.
Mitch9128
18-09-15, 03:50 PM
Right I am going to bite here. Its called a deterrant for a reason, just because we have never used them doesnt mean we do not need them. Other countries aside in terms of what they are and are not developing, trident means we keep a permanant seat on the UN Security council and maintain a veto right. Give up Tridant, give up that right.
Not only that the countries who are actively seeking to develop nuclear capability (Iran and North Korea are the two big ones) are the exact reason we need to keep it. Its not so much the state we need to consider, but the ability for a group such as ISIS to capture and use it for their own reasons. The ability to strike first in a situation like this should not be given up under any circumstances as the alternative wouldnt be worth living for.
Anyone who seriously thinks we can afford to get rid of the nuclear deterrant to save a tiny bit of money in the schem of things to spend on who knows what must live with their head in the clouds and has no real understanding of a far far bigger picture.
The bigger picture, would therefore to be to scrap nuclear weapons worldwide, no? No-one is going to use them, bar the odd nutjob organisation, so why does the developed world build something it has no use for? Policing the nutjob states that try to develop them on the side, would be another matter.
Uber Dave
18-09-15, 03:55 PM
The bigger picture, would therefore to be to scrap nuclear weapons worldwide, no? No-one is going to use them, bar the odd nutjob organisation, so why does the developed world build something it has no use for? Policing the nutjob states that try to develop them on the side, would be another matter.
You sadly can no un-invent technology otherwise I am sure they would have been got rid of. People will work out how to do it on their own accord and one day we will likely need them, you cant just build these things in days as and when you need them and even if we could the cost would be 10x that of a planned renewal and maintanance.
redken1
18-09-15, 08:51 PM
Wandering off the beaten track here, but interesting debate.
I’m with you on Trident Mitch. IMO, total madness to spend £100billion on a WMD that is capable of destroying the planet over and over again, when we can’t even afford to feed our own people.
The latest figures from the Trussell Trust show a 19% year-on-year increase in food bank use, demonstrating that hunger and poverty continue to affect large numbers of people in the UK, including rising numbers of low-paid workers. The trust’s food banks distributed enough emergency food to feed almost 1.1 million people for three days in 2014/15 – up from 913,000 the previous year.
I think attitudes are changing towards nuclear weapons and more people are finding it difficult to justify such huge public expenditure in light of increasing hardship like the aforementioned. Back in the 80s if you opposed the deployment of WMDs you were labelled as a bunch of ‘misguided lesbians’, but now the mood is shifting and the County is more evenly split, with a higher percentage of Scots against them.
Who decides who the good guys are when we talk of nuclear weapons acting as a deterrent? Using such logic, ordinary Iranians could and indeed do argue that Iran is developing nuclear weapons out of a rational fear for its national safety because of the systematically threatening posture of the United States and Israel. Maybe a view not widely shared here or in the US, but a widespread one held in many parts of the world nonetheless. I wonder if the US/UK led invasion of Iraq in 2003 without UN backing would have happened if Saddam had possessed WMDs? How many people would be happy for WMDs to be sited in Wiltshire?
SupeRDel
20-09-15, 11:19 AM
Corbyn can says what he wants and people will like what he says but at the end of the day someone will have to pay for it to work
If you are a working man paying taxes then be prepared to pay a lot income tax and national insurance.
If he plans to finance things by cutting our defence budget then we might as well wave the white flag now and let the Muslims take over
Mitch9128
20-09-15, 11:45 AM
If he plans to finance things by cutting our defence budget then we might as well wave the white flag now and let the Muslims take over
Because the nuclear deterrent keeps 'the muslims' out, eh?
If he plans to finance things by cutting our defence budget then we might as well wave the white flag now and let the Muslims take over
Can't believe there are people who still actually think like this , that's the sort of mentality that was shared whilst Hitler was rounding up Jews in Poland .
Watching this thread is like witnessing a load of drowning people fighting over a punctured liferaft .
Mitch9128
21-09-15, 08:52 PM
Currently JC is known to only put his gentleman parts inside humans, another plus :)
Julie_S
22-09-15, 09:26 PM
I was actually moaning when all the TV coverage was being show after the election that Labour needed to return to their roots. Corbyn is only returning to Tony Benn/Michael Foot politics not Labour's roots.
Believe it or not, those who don't support Labour ideals and the far left have valid views as well, oh hang on, weren't they the ones that voted the current government in and soundly kicked labour's butt?
All this CND and power to the people stuff takes me back to being 16 again, it's brilliant. I was punk, couldn't have been more left if I had tried (wanted to go to Greenham Common when I was 13 after overdosing on Crass records, really couldn't see why my mum wouldn't let me go there....) but I grew up to realised I didn't want equality to the stage where half my wages go to feed the poor, no matter where in the world they might be - think I picked up some of Thatcher's selfishness along the way. Never liked her at the time but by god she's makes good cider
Mitch9128
23-09-15, 08:35 AM
The roots of the labour party were never with Bliar or Milliband, they had moved new labour so far to the right, as to be unrecognisable from the conservatives. Benn and Foot were old labour, as is JC, so yes he has returned the party to it's roots.
Half your wages don't go to feeding the poor either, stop reading the Daily Mail. Oh and as for the lovely Maggie...http://theleveller.org/2015/09/british-really-laughing/
The roots of the labour party were never with Bliar or Milliband, they had moved new labour so far to the right, as to be unrecognisable from the conservatives. Benn and Foot were old labour, as is JC, so yes he has returned the party to it's roots.
Half your wages don't go to feeding the poor either, stop reading the Daily Mail.
.... or this thread ; )
Mitch9128
23-09-15, 12:02 PM
Trev, this forum is dead, no one hardly posts on here, at least this is getting people talking, or are you suggesting censorship?
Mitch, merely pointing out that if you suggest stop reading the Daily Mail as some of what it prints may not quite be 100% factually correct (god forbid!) then it's probably best to do the same with this thread on the same basis.
Certainly not suggesting censorship, at least of this type of subject and content. I do agree the forum is pretty quiet, probably down to relatively small number of members, not sure though that political 'debate' is the way to drag bikers to their keyboards. Probably that most have better things to do than browse forums - that reminds me, I should be working, wages to earn, taxes to pay and all that ; )
From what I'm told, the forums aren't helped by the fact that there is so much political based debate and conspiracy mentality.
Having said that, I don't have time or inclination to start censoring or dictating what is and isn't allowed to be discussed, so I'd rather find some other way of enthusing people to talk about motorbikes like they used to
From what I'm told, the forums aren't helped by the fact that there is so much political based debate and conspiracy mentality.
Having said that, I don't have time or inclination to start censoring or dictating what is and isn't allowed to be discussed, so I'd rather find some other way of enthusing people to talk about motorbikes like they used to
Dabz, I think the forum punches pretty well for its weight, you have a relatively small number of members and catchment area after all. As for examples of enthusing people to talk about bikes look no further than the recent postings by House on his 650 Yam and 'nearly bike', that guy should get a regular TV slot let alone the odd forum thread ; )
redken1
23-09-15, 05:34 PM
James, you know how much I respect you and enjoy WBs. I deliberately didn’t start a thread on the Labour leadership result for the very reason outlined in your post. However, I only contributed after I thought it was a topic other members were happy to discuss. Personally speaking, I have never understood why users of forums, be it biking or cricket or any other, which have a general chat section, complain about too much of this or too much of that subject under discussion because it does not interest them. It is what it says on the tin, ‘non bike chat’ or ‘non cricket chat’. If I have no interest in a topic under discussion under any section I simply give it a body-swerve and move on to something that does interest me. It always baffles me when people come on Facebook and complain about X factor after sitting watching it for an hour and a half. Lol. Let’s talk bikes.
No worries at all Ken :) it's always good to have debate, as long as it doesn't turn in to bickering!
Great that's the end of that debate now lets move onto religion!
Mitch9128
24-09-15, 02:14 PM
Well a Labour thread was never gonna go down well on a Wiltshire site, was it? We did religion years back, i seem to remember some members on here getting very hot under the collar :)
Well a Labour thread was never gonna go down well on a Wiltshire site, was it? We did religion years back, i seem to remember some members on here getting very hot under the collar :)
Shouldn't that be hot under the dog collar?
Julie_S
25-09-15, 08:30 PM
I was actually expecting this to be about Danny Kent by the way!
I wouldn't want to see too much censorship on this, we are lucky that with have party's with differing views, and people on here to share theirs. I think there's a name for places with only one view allowed to be held. And some of you lads do pick up on stuff that I've not read, I'm sure I'm not the only one
I like the Levellers by the way, but being my age I see (latest album sleeve..) and hear a lot of Crass being recycled. If that's your bag I well recommend digging out some old Crass musing. My records were all scratched to hell listened to them secretly on and old Dansette - they would have been confiscated if my mother had heard the language, and the anti Tory ranting!
There's only one way of life and that's your own .
http://youtu.be/u0S8RNkL5Wg
Mitch9128
26-09-15, 11:56 AM
An excellent song, from a group with very left wing leanings :)
For the Tories....Corbyn is a gift that will continue to give :D
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