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Iceman
24-06-08, 05:01 PM
Hi, Any experienced bikers in the Swindon area willing to freelance? After a lengthy time off bikes I am holding on too tight when it comes to faster cornering.I've looked up tips and counter steering on the net but it's not the same when I'm on my own. When I follow another biker I find it easier to go in faster but hold back when I'm on my own. Maybe it's my "self defence" and wisdom kicking in wheras as a youngster I had little fear! :-/ Anyway just wanted to know if anyone's around this area to give me some pointers please! If not.no worries.I'll just keep riding around the many roundabouts in Swindon ;D practicing my cornering techniques!

Sue600
24-06-08, 06:17 PM
Would highly recomend a bike safe course, or if you can afford it a couple of hours with an Instructor.

I'm not the fastest of riders, but just love the bends. Found taking the right line and watching the limit point helps you round. Gives you enough information to know if you can open up or just stay steady.

The limit point is the furthest point you can see around the bend, I use the line where the near side meets the far side of the road. If that point closes in on you then the bend is tightening, if its going away from you then its opening up and you can accelerate.

Found the best way is to get to grips with it at a slow pace, and as you settle into it your speed and confidence grow. I'm certainly no expert, and will never be a great rider... I'm sure there are others on here with much more experience than me. Always up for a spin if you wish to practice those bends though ;)

Iceman
24-06-08, 06:37 PM
Thanks for the reply Sue.Ive sent a PM to you!

Hunar
24-06-08, 08:34 PM
well, after being on a bike again for only 4 or 5 months I can only say that its practice really. I was off the road for about 3 or so years, and only passed my test 12 months before that!

Don't over push yourself or the bike, ride as smooth as you can, and you will find that it kinda comes to you. I take corners faster and lower than a did when i first started riding again. You need to get used to the bike and your abilities first, then just ride as much as you can, don't worry about the flat out speeds, those will come in a short while. Get your confidence up and get used to your bike!

And I am usually always up for a few hours on the fudge! so gimme a shout if you fancey a bimble!

Dabz
24-06-08, 08:48 PM
Can't go wrong with BikeSafe mate - totally free and an excellent way to spend a Sunday. The instructors are really good at helping with any difficulties you're having.

I needed some guidance with cornering last time I did it and they advised me that I was keeping the revs too low...once I learnt to keep it in the powerband through corners they felt a LOT smoother and more enjoyable

Iceman
24-06-08, 09:10 PM
Hunar, I'll follow you down Lyneham Banks on thursday then mate! ;D
I'm sure you'll leave me standing if you had a mind to! zoom..............................wher'd he go???

Dabz, I've not heard of bike safe on Sundays.Where's that then please?

Sue600
24-06-08, 09:17 PM
Details of the course and how to apply are here:
http://www.wiltshirebikers.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1198163326

Iceman
24-06-08, 09:20 PM
Thanks for that info Sue! later....

Dabz
24-06-08, 09:27 PM
she beat me to it :P I'm not sure whether the July/August dates are fully booked now but worth a shot - I'm on the July one..looking forward to finding out what bad habits I've picked up!

FJ_Biker
24-06-08, 09:48 PM
Iceman I would say just enjoy yourself in the bends.

Get some lessons from a qualified instructor your riding will improve no end.

Find a straight bit of road with no traffic on push down lightly on the end of one of the handlebars and see what the bike does – that’s counter steering (you probably already do it and don’t notice).

kaka
24-06-08, 10:19 PM
Hi Iceman,

If I get the chance i would love to go for a blast with you,but have a two week old baby & a 2 yr old toddler.
Not a pro but been riding non stop for 28 years & have cooled down since having kids(responsibility).
Working on being out on Thursday on me battered zx9 so may see you out then.
Main thing is to be relaxed & let the bike & tyres do what they are made for.
Position yourself where you can see furthest round the corner staying within your lane on a left hander.
If there are no chevrons on a bend usually it is not very sharp
DONT QUOTE ME ON THAT THOUGH
that is what i go for anyhow
There has been a few articles in various mags covering this issue which can help but experience is best & use these as guidance.
Again this is my view & i have never been on a advanced course so am no expert

Kevinb
25-06-08, 09:02 AM
Iceman have you thought of going on one of the Bikesafe days, they are very good.

Cheers

Kev

sburv
25-06-08, 01:24 PM
Bike safe comes highly recomended, and can lead to cheaper bike insurance too.
I've got mine booked for July and really looking foward to it. :)

hotdog
25-06-08, 01:48 PM
Would add to all this great advice that's it's really worth buying and reading a copy of Roadcraft. This is the system that the police train and ride to and that they'll talk to you about on a Bikesafe day. If you go on to do any sort of advanced training/riding then again, it is THE system of advanced riding.

Regards,

schwee
25-06-08, 02:12 PM
Bike safe would be great to improve your technique.

I've never done one, but being a plod myself, am trained to drive to the system of car control etc and a lot of what is written in car Roadcraft is the same for bikes.

The key ingredient to safe biking is learning to read the road, using all the information around you. There is a lot more than you think:

Hedge rows - which way are they going/are they obscuring your view of the road ahead/can you see high vehicles above them
Telegraph Poles - you can see these above most hedgerows so give an idea of which way the road is bending/are they getting shorter (downhill) or taller (up hill)
Road signs - tell you about junctions/camber/hazards/degrees of certain bends
Chevrons - warning of a tight bend ahead/or tightening up of a bend
Line markings - do you know what all the different ones mean?

short lines long gaps - normal road, no hazards
Long lines short gaps - hazard area (junction/hill crest/bend)
solid line on your lane, broken line on other lane (no overtaking, oncoming vehicles may be overtaking
broken line you side, solid other - if you find this one mid bend - get the power on as the road is about to open up.

Next time you go out, have a good look around and start to read which way the road is going. The key is slow in, fast out.

Find a piece of road you enjoy, and keep practising on a series of bends you know.

Most of all, relaxe and have fun :D

hotdog
25-06-08, 02:20 PM
Should have said. I'm talking about Roadcraft for motorcyclists...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-Roadcraft-Police-Riders-Handbook/dp/011341143X

Regards,

Ghost
26-06-08, 11:23 PM
Bikesafe is good and cheap as chips (free) California Superbike School level one is very good (but very expensive) one extreme to the other and lots of other training available at all sorts of costs in between.

Iceman
01-07-08, 05:40 PM
Spent a few days concentrating on Counter-steering and have really picked up the pace feeling more confident! Now,just got to see about getting my knee down on the local roundabouts!

Sue600
01-07-08, 07:37 PM
Well done! Keep practising....would you like to borrow my knee sliders?? I want them back after so I look cool though once they are all scuffed! ::)

hotdog
01-07-08, 09:05 PM
Well done! Keep practising....would you like to borrow my knee sliders?? I want them back after so I look cool though once they are all scuffed! ::)

Just drag them down a wall Sue, or if you'd like the really convincing look, lend them to me...

... 30 seconds on my grinder and they'll look real cool lol.

bobf279
01-07-08, 09:25 PM
Like everyone else I strongly recommend the bikesafe course. Going fast round the bends really does come with practice and a lot of it is choosing the right line which is maybe why when you follow someone you find it easier. Just remember though speed isn't everything getting round in one piece is more important.

Iceman
01-07-08, 11:17 PM
Just remember though speed isn't everything getting round in one piece is more important.

I stick to the speed limits anyway and dont enjoy travelling faster,but want to be able to cruise round corners within those limits anyway instead of slamming on the anchors on a 40mph bend!lol Like you said getting round is more important and I have to put more faith in my tyres and lean over more which Im doing nicely now! a wee bit anyway. :)

schwee
02-07-08, 09:52 AM
when following, you are able to go faster because the person in front is telling you where the corner goes before you can actually see it.

If they brake, you know you probably oughta (unless their not that confident either)

ONFIRE
02-07-08, 10:48 AM
when following, you are able to go faster because the person in front is telling you where the corner goes before you can actually see it.

If they brake, you know you probably oughta (unless their not that confident either)

You're joking ::) 8-)


Depends if you know the rider & their abilities… personally I ride for myself, I agree it can inspire a little confidence, But following someone into a corner who is obviously a lot quicker is not a particularly good idea as you might not come out the over side. (Red Mist syndrome)




Best place to improve on cornering skills is on the Track, with a capable instructor. Plus not so many objects to hit! :o :o ;)

igbell
02-07-08, 11:04 AM
My tip for going round a corner is, look where you are going and take it at the speed you feel comftable ;D ;D

Iceman
02-07-08, 11:10 AM
My tip for going round a corner is, look where you are going and take it at the speed you feel comftable ;D ;D

Yeh mate,that's what I'm doing now! Also want to be up to scratch for the Poole Rideout coming up. ;)

igbell
02-07-08, 11:30 AM
Ah dont worry that as Amante will be holding everyone up on his push along trike. ;D

Dabz
02-07-08, 12:00 PM
I find that some days are better than others with corners too - sometimes I can fly round them with a good lean, others I seem to lose it completely and wobble round :P

igbell
02-07-08, 12:11 PM
For some reason I hate roundabouts, I just take them slow all the time??? Dont ask me why??

Iceman
02-07-08, 12:35 PM
For some reason I hate roundabouts, I just take them slow all the time??? Dont ask me why??

I love the big roundabouts! Just not keen on all those square things with 4 wheels whizzing in and out around you and the dreaded deisel trails! :P

hotdog
02-07-08, 12:42 PM
I find that some days are better than others with corners too - sometimes I can fly round them with a good lean, others I seem to lose it completely and wobble round :P

Ah, the good day/bad day syndrome lol. Some days you're 'in the zone' and others it's nowhere to be found. Think it happens to us all lol.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen the plot lately? ;D

Sue600
02-07-08, 03:56 PM
Nope, lost it ages ago! ::)

Sue600
02-07-08, 04:03 PM
when following, you are able to go faster because the person in front is telling you where the corner goes before you can actually see it.

If they brake, you know you probably oughta (unless their not that confident either)

You're joking ::) 8-)


Depends if you know the rider & their abilities… personally I ride for myself, I agree it can inspire a little confidence, But following someone into a corner who is obviously a lot quicker is not a particularly good idea as you might not come out the over side. (Red Mist syndrome)




Best place to improve on cornering skills is on the Track, with a capable instructor. Plus not so many objects to hit! :o :o ;)

Tend to agree with you Tim, found my confidence on corners on the track not the road. Improved my road riding alot, but I much prefer to practice without cars,road markings, potholes etc - and a surface that gives you really sticky tyres. Not on rubbish gravel covered corners, blocked by hedges, huge potholes and cars cutting corners trying to take you out - gotta enough to concetrate on ta LOL ;D Only tend to stick on corners with people I know are responsible/safe (whatever you like to call it) and then I'm still aware that hazards may develop after the first rider has come out the corner (funny how some car drivers presume bikes are on their own, and couldnt possibly be a second one following)

schwee
02-07-08, 04:25 PM
I didnt do my first track day for 2 years after passing my test. It wasn't top of my agenda because I loved the challenges of the road. Knowing that you've read the road right and taken a corner smoothly, then hit that roundabout perfectly and mastered all the overtakes....

There's just something about road riding, which on a good run (empty roads, sticky tyres, clean dry roads) nothing can beat.

Then there's trackdays - TOTALLY different. Fast, tiring, full on, adrenaline, with nothing else to worry about except you and your bike (and the odd numpty but at least their either overtaking or being overtaken)

By the sounds of it Iceman you know your abilities already and are sensible when it comes to advice people are offering. I know that I didn't need to spell out on my earlier post that you shouldn't follow someone who far exceeds your ability...jeez :-/

What I was saying is from experience. I ride a lot quicker following my OH than I do if i'm leading. If he is at the right distance in front, I use him as my vanishing point - as we'll be travelling at the same speed around the same bend, so helps me corner more efficiently.

TBH this isn't the first time I've been shot down in flames... :-[

Over the past few days I've posted some great advice, explained in full, offering help to the questions posed. We all have different experiences and advice, but that's all it is - advice. If people want to take that advice and put it into practice, then so be it, thats what's great about being a biker - you can try different things and different styles until you find your own - which you can then pass on as advice to others :)

hotdog
02-07-08, 04:32 PM
I think the point schwee made is very valid (but perhaps not stated well). Just like everything else around you, the vehicle in front is giving you information and you should consider this information with every other. Certainly if you see a vehicle in front disappear round the corner without braking it is a reasonably safe bet that you don't need to slow either. If that vehicle is another motorcycle and you can also see how far they're leaning etc. then the info is even more valid. However you should make your decision taking into account all other factors including your own feelings, ability and confidence, both in the decision and your capabilities. Basically, it's just another piece of info that can help you make the right choice for you. Always, no matter what the circumstances or who you're with, ride for yourself.

Regards,

sburv
02-07-08, 06:15 PM
I think the point being made was when road riding everything around you can potentially give you information. For instance -

- You are following another bike / car and you see there brake lights it would be a fair assumption there is a hazard ahead.

-You are following a bus and you notice a passenger stand up. Perhaps the bus will be slowing down and stopping to let the passenger off shortly.

-Passing parked cars and you spot a person in one of the cars wing mirror. Has that person seen you? Are they just about to open the car door and get out?

There are loads of little ways you can help yourself but you have to be very aware of what is happening around you at all times.

The information is there, it’s what you do with it that counts :)

Ride safe and ride for yourself. Don't ride outside of your comfort zone to keep up with others.

kaka
02-07-08, 06:18 PM
whatever you do dont brake with the front mid corner as the bike will stand up and you will end up on the other side of the road.
throttle down,lean more (you will be suprised how far you can go over)or feather the rear brake

Sue600
02-07-08, 07:15 PM
There's some great information been posted up here. Talking to some, I find people may have different ideas and approaches to learning to ride better, some things work for some and not others. Tend to go with what works for me, feel safer trying out new things in an environment I feel safer, whether on the track or on a decent familiar road at a quiet time. Would rather ride a slightly slower but fun and relaxed ride on the roads, and leave the pushing beyond my comfort zone to elsewhere if I can. ;D

ONFIRE
02-07-08, 10:06 PM
TBH this isn't the first time I've been shot down in flames... :-[
Oi my name is ONFIRE ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D 8-)



Seriously Great report Shelley :-* 8-)


Should anyone wish to see a 'Motorcycle Riding Safety AVI Video on the roads from Highworth to Brinkworth send a nominal £1 payment to the following paypal address admin@lmco.co.uk complete with delivery address and title payment (Bladerunners)

Gav
03-07-08, 12:41 AM
There some good advice here, so really bad advice and alot of what should be common sence anyway...

TBH ride for yourself not anyone else, if you feel you are at your limits with what you know and are not willing to learn to push a little harder then stay that way, however if you feel that you want to improve you riding for speed/safty then there alot of ways to go about it, take the advice offered herem but bear in mind this is what other people find works for them and may not work for you. Anyone with a few years experiance should have good road craft anyway, as in should know how to read the road and what the road conditions should be like, if you dont then learn this first as this will improve your safty no end, If its your bike control that you feel is letting you down then getting some time in with a good instructor would do no harm at all, it does not need to be a paif instructor, just someone who you think has good bike control and most importantly can communicate to you how to control a bike and what makes it do what. Track days will help with your cornering, but can be an expensive way to go. Most importantly enjoy yourself.

Iceman, if im free one sunday, il go out with you at a pace your happy with and work on ya bike control and road position, im pretty sure i can pick up where your going wrong and work on it from there, give me a pm if ya interested......oh and dont listen to ONFIRE, it'll all end in tears....lol

Gav

Hunar
03-07-08, 01:02 AM
Some great tips adn advice here certainly, my own views will pretty much sum up whast already been said, but I'm gonna dd them anyway as differnt points of view make more sense to different people.

I try and get to know the people I am riding with, find out what their abilities and skills are, and how I think they compare to mine, and of course what type of bike they ride plays a factor. When riding in a group this can prove to be very important, it will give you some idea of when a bike in front or behind you will try an overtake or some other manouver, and make you more prepared

I know some people who ride like a bat out of hell, on a sports bike, i know that they will take a corner faster and better than me on my FJ, so if I am following them the information I get from them is pretty much reference only, more so if I don't know the road. I know they can out ride me, even if I was on the same bike. So if I am gaining on them approaching a corner, I am probably going a tad fast, and back off, but thats about it, I knwo they will take that corner much faster than i will and their bike will play a good part in allowing them to do that, as it will handle better than mine.

If I am following someone on a smililar bike, who has similar or slightly better skills, and they are pullign away from me, I know that I am probably safe to increase my speed around bends somewhat, but you always have to factor in that if you are following someone and using them as a guide, if they overcook it, you stand a good chance of doing the same.

At the end of the day, if you're not confident to race or keep up with another bike, then don't do it, its really not worth it.

The only good way to improve is to practice as much as you can in all weather conditions, attend things like bike safe, and get some advanced training.

Some of the best riders I have seen ride sports tourers, and have done advanced training, and they ride SMOOTH, and when you get that right you maintain a improved overall speed, and they are able to keep up easily with the 'faster bikes' with out all the effort, heavy braking and acceleration.

Without embarrassing people, watch how Dave rides his FJR1300, even with Meike on the back, its always a smooth ride to watch and he maintains a good progress, no excessive braking (unless in emergency), I have to say that I am always impressed when I see him riding, and I admit that Dave is a rider that inspires me to ride better, I really like his style, and he's a great chap to boot!

But no matter what, never ride above you ability, confidence or the bikes abilities, sure use other people to get tips and ideas from, but always ride your own ride, and only push yourself when its safe for you to do so, and you are confident enough. Ignore speed, go for smoothness of ride, and you will find that your cornering and overall riding will improve vastly.

I can highly recomend getting some ROSPA or IAM advanced training, its suprising how much it can help, and you also get discounts on your insurance if you hold one of those certificates.

hotdog
03-07-08, 09:15 AM
Wow Hunar... Thank you for that amazing compliment - I'm completely gob smacked. There are many many people who I consider to be far more capable riders than me and who can out ride me any time so I hope my riding won't be too scrutinised on a ride out lol. I will never stop learning about riding bikes and I will certainly never feel for myself that I'm good enough but really, thank you.

ONFIRE
03-07-08, 09:38 AM
There some good advice here, so really bad advice and alot of what should be common sence anyway...

TBH ride for yourself not anyone else, if you feel you are at your limits with what you know and are not willing to learn to push a little harder then stay that way, however if you feel that you want to improve you riding for speed/safty then there alot of ways to go about it, take the advice offered herem but bear in mind this is what other people find works for them and may not work for you. Anyone with a few years experiance should have good road craft anyway, as in should know how to read the road and what the road conditions should be like, if you dont then learn this first as this will improve your safty no end, If its your bike control that you feel is letting you down then getting some time in with a good instructor would do no harm at all, it does not need to be a paif instructor, just someone who you think has good bike control and most importantly can communicate to you how to control a bike and what makes it do what. Track days will help with your cornering, but can be an expensive way to go. Most importantly enjoy yourself.

Iceman, if im free one sunday, il go out with you at a pace your happy with and work on ya bike control and road position, im pretty sure i can pick up where your going wrong and work on it from there, give me a pm if ya interested......oh and dont listen to ONFIRE, it'll all end in tears....lol

Gav

Only when the bike is stationary in a car park! :-/

Iceman You'll be fine with Gav great safe rider, just don't attempt to race him he's freaken quick!! or it will end up in :'( for sure :o ;D ;D ;D
8-)

Iceman
03-07-08, 05:25 PM
Gav,I'll take you up on your offer when you're free mate.Thanks! I live in Peatmoor,near the Chinese Experience. Where's your 20?

Gav
03-07-08, 07:15 PM
LOL check ONFIRE with the compliments, what you after now, more things to fit i take it...lol

Iceman i live in town and should be out this weekend on sunday if the weather stays good. You Have seen me, im the young good looking chap from Bike Treads(see what i did there lol)
If ya fancy hookin up and going for a bimble gimme a shout at gav_trueman@hotmail.com and well sort summin out.

Gav

ONFIRE
03-07-08, 08:17 PM
LOL check ONFIRE with the compliments, what you after now, more things to fit i take it...lol

Iceman i live in town and should be out this weekend on sunday if the weather stays good. You Have seen me, im the young good looking chap from Bike Treads(see what i did there lol)
If ya fancy hookin up and going for a bimble gimme a shout at gav_trueman@hotmail.com and well sort summin out.

Gav

Young Lol! :o You starting up a dating agency Gav :D

Ok tad younger than me ::) ;D ;D

Gav
03-07-08, 08:20 PM
lol yeah and always will be younger than you...

Iceman
04-07-08, 07:02 PM
Gav, Sunday sounds good mate! Will email you later.

Iceman
16-07-08, 05:40 PM
Found that the Sunday Poole rideout really helped my cornering no end. Following the other riders really improved my confidence in my own ability and the bike. Can't recomend rideouts enough now! :)

Sue600
17-07-08, 06:28 PM
Found that the Sunday Poole rideout really helped my cornering no end. Following the other riders really improved my confidence in my own ability and the bike. Can't recomend rideouts enough now! :)

Glad you had fun and found it useful... find its helpful going a bit further afield, much more time to settle down and relax. (was a fun day out) ;D

Iceman
18-07-08, 12:04 AM
Yeh,and thanks sue for the short lesson on the way back to Sallys'. :)