Tories shoot themselves in the foot

[redken1]

The old Tories have pulled a fast one on their own ilk - srapping family allowance for those on over 44 grand per annum - luvin it. Should use sum of the income generated to raise the allowance for those on under 25 grand. Bet they won't tho

[wiltshire builders]

If someone is in 40% bracket it doesn't make them a tory.
Why should anyone get an allowance?
Having children is a privilege not a right. I don't expect people to pay for my choice of lifestyle.

Now can somebody help me down from my high horse please.

[redken1]

If someone is in 40% bracket it doesn't make them a tory.
Why should anyone get an allowance?
Having children is a privilege not a right. I don't expect people to pay for my choice of lifestyle.

Now can somebody help me down from my high horse please.


Off course it doesn't make them a Tory - the point I'm making is that this policy will hit their "Bread and butter voters" I believe that child benefit should be raised for lower income families as one of many measures to rid us of the curse of the poverty trap.

[Taylor86]

I thought the cap they put on benefits was a bit high, until I realised it was per household, rather than per person ;D

And if you're earning £44k I doubt you'd even notice the benefits were gone.

Just so you know I can't stand politics... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[BladeTriple]

Why should anyone get an allowance?
Having children is a privilege not a right. I don't expect people to pay for my choice of lifestyle.





:) I'd like an allowance for not having kids if thats ok, making less of a burden on the school system the NHS and of course if they ever grew up into little hooligans .... the judicial system :P, granted there will be no Hizzy's or Kaz's for the future but thats a saving on the economy I'm happy for us to make and of course in return a nice reward for keeping the population down wouldn't go astray ;D

If you are absolutely minted granted you work hard for your money but if you love your money so much don't go out having a basketball team sized family ... same goes for the buggers who can barely hold their head above water sitting on benefits thinking more kids equals more hand outs ..... ********** expletives removed to protect the mildy innocent .....

tell you what its nice sitting up here on a high horse... I can see my house from up here ;)


:D :D

[Kevinb]

They should scrap it altogether. Why should we have to pay for a 15-16 year old kid to fire out more children in an already overpopulated country. When you see unemployed going around with 6 to 8 kids and us as tax payers are paying for them something is very wrong. >:(

The Tories will have to do even more extreme forms of taxation to clear up the mess left by Labour. Just don't make it easy for those who are so called on the poverty line, they may have to make do with only the last generation mobile phone.

[Taylor86]

Just realised there are kids who's parents receive benefits for them who themselves have a kid they receive benefit for!!! Does that make sense? lol ;D

It's the same with the expenses stuff though. Because the rules said it was allowed, it was done. I wouldn't say no to money that the government said I was allowed to receive...

[wiltshire builders]

I thought the cap they put on benefits was a bit high, until I realised it was per household, rather than per person ;D

And if you're earning £44k I doubt you'd even notice the benefits were gone.

Just so you know I can't stand politics... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
I don't know how to tell you this, but it is per person. You don't pay tax by the household. You could be bringing in £86,000 and you would still recieve child benefit.

A single mum, recently been left by her husband to look after 4 kids, hold down a job and struggling to pay the mortgage would get nothing if she earned £44,100.
I don't care if you're a Tory, Labour or Raving Loony party the system doesn't work.

Kevinb, ever thought of running for parliment. I especially like your views on cats. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[Ducatista]

Off course it doesn't make them a Tory - the point I'm making is that this policy will hit their "Bread and butter voters"

redken - I believe you are wrong in thinking everyone votes selfishly.
There are higher earners who agree with the policy.


I believe that child benefit should be raised for lower income families as one of many measures to rid us of the curse of the poverty trap.

What about family planning? (men can also take responsibility for this too).
There is a certain degree of personal responsibility is there not?
If you know your life is going to be miserable if you have kids then either don't have them or study for a better job.
Don't blame others for not giving you handouts.

[Mitch9128]

Tory&Lib-Dem coalition, i don't recall a Labour candidate even bothering to stand in Wiltshire! So you carrot crunching bastards are responsible! ;)

Mitch (Yorkshire born&Bred)

[Kevinb]

I thought the cap they put on benefits was a bit high, until I realised it was per household, rather than per person ;D

And if you're earning £44k I doubt you'd even notice the benefits were gone.

Just so you know I can't stand politics... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
I don't know how to tell you this, but it is per person. You don't pay tax by the household. You could be bringing in £86,000 and you would still recieve child benefit.

A single mum, recently been left by her husband to look after 4 kids, hold down a job and struggling to pay the mortgage would get nothing if she earned £44,100.
I don't care if you're a Tory, Labour or Raving Loony party the system doesn't work.

Kevinb, ever thought of running for parliment. I especially like your views on cats. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Me for parliment. I would skin every cat in the country and use the fur to make blankets for pensioners. That way you could get rid of the winter heating allowance and save loads. You could then give the meat away to feed the poor.[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
This would stop cats pooing in other peoples gardens and supermarkets could stock more beer as they wouldn't need a whole isle for cat food ;D

[Ducatista]

i don't recall a Labour candidate even bothering to stand in Wiltshire!

Someone did stand in Chippenham but I think they came below the BNP.


This would stop cats pooing in other peoples gardens and supermarkets could stock more beer as they wouldn't need a whole isle for cat food Grin

Where do I sign ;)

[redken1]

The vast majority of parents in receipt of child benefit are not scroungers - in fact it is deducted from most state benefits before a final figure is awarded. Numerous contributors on this thread who do not have children take the view that family allowance should be scrapped. We should remember that none of us chose to have parents, but when they reach retirement, through our taxes we finance free bus passes, tv licences etc etc . And in every poll that has been conducted the majority of British people are against the wars in Iraq and afghanistan, so why should we fund them through are taxes?

[pilninggas]

The vast majority of parents in receipt of child benefit are not scroungers - in fact it is deducted from most state benefits before a final figure is awarded. Numerous contributors on this thread who do not have children take the view that family allowance should be scrapped. We should remember that none of us chose to have parents, but when they reach retirement, through our taxes we finance free bus passes, tv licences etc etc . And in every poll that has been conducted the majority of British people are against the wars in Iraq and afghanistan, so why should we fund them through are taxes?
You are right the vast majority aren't scroungers, but a sizeable minority of those on state-handouts are. Come to where i live, a couple just across the road with no-jobs are on their fifth kiddy. No sense of social responsibility, though they are a bit miffed as they won't get a maternity grant this time and the money they got for other four kept them in cider and fags.

Vote Labour: Each election win comes with a free war! (p.s. i support our troops, not nu-labour b-lox).

Lay off of the new government, they really can't do worse than the last shower-of-****e. :P

[Mitch9128]

All i'll say is http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3304977&l=bb0cf81e85&id=608359162

[pilninggas]

All i'll say is http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3304977&l=bb0cf81e85&id=608359162
Why do they make a big deal of him going to Eton? We should never be prejudiced against someone because of their upbringing - Blair had a privileged background, and rightly nothing was made of it.

btw the Daily Mail isn't perfect, but have you read the Daily Mirror? i picked one up in work a few weeks ago and thought i'd timewarped back to an 80s copy of that toilet paper otherwise known as the Morning Star. The Mirror must think the Unions are infallible.

[Mitch9128]

No no, not at all, i much prefer being governed by some toffy nosed Eton boy!

[pilninggas]

No no, not at all, i much prefer being governed by some toffy nosed Eton boy!
I don't get it though, Blair's educational background was fairly similar - why snide Cameron for something he didn't choose?

[BladeTriple]

The vast majority of parents in receipt of child benefit are not scroungers - in fact it is deducted from most state benefits before a final figure is awarded. Numerous contributors on this thread who do not have children take the view that family allowance should be scrapped. We should remember that none of us chose to have parents, but when they reach retirement, through our taxes we finance free bus passes, tv licences etc etc . And in every poll that has been conducted the majority of British people are against the wars in Iraq and afghanistan, so why should we fund them through are taxes?


I don't have kids and its not by choice its by the inability to have them not just being in a same sex relationship..... I do my job because I volunteered to join and serve this country as many would p1$$ and moan about it yet not stand up and be counted so if that means following a mindless prat to war and doing my duty like every other serviceperson we do it for our comrades for our families for our loved ones and the nation... not the politics and better to fight a war on their soil than ours.

A free war with every labour goverment? Did we forget that Maggie was the one who sent our boys to the slaughter with sub standard kit and no support from any allies in the South Atlantic in 1982 and I'm sure it was a Tory goverment during the first Gulf War too .... And many goverments served during the reign of terror in Northern Ireland yet it was a Labour WOMAN with Cancer who helped start any real peace process in the province.... God rest and sleep well Mo Mowlam, my local MP for my home town of Redcar.

I'd say the majority of members on here are hard working men and women of mostly working and middle class backgrounds.... tell me otherwise when we all have homes, cars and an expensive lifestyle love of motorcycles too.... I may be a Junior NCO in the Army but I live a life thats comfortable , everyone wants more as we live to our means and many greedy b@st@rds live above that and take the p1$$ sponging and fiddling benefits.....


Kaz is an NHS employee works her arse off for hardly the highest of wages either but then again public sector pensions is a blight to many right now and we face the prospect of something thats been paid into being cut massively by the goverment in cost cutting too .

Honestly .... If you can't afford something in the shops you wouldn't buy it and bring it home especially if it was going to cost you and keep costing you for well over 20 years would you ? Why have loads of kids as well then if you cannot afford to have them? There are far too many people who may want families and lots of kids but practically they cannot afford them so why should everyone else fund them ?

Same goes for people who come to work in UK and take off the NHS when they;ve put nothing in , why not make them take private health insurance and if their employers need their skill set so badly they can contribute towards their health insurance for 3 years until their NHS contributions have been paid for some time too ? Thats how the Germans do it, the employee pays a little the employer pays the rest of the krankenversicherung to the krankenkasse .

I'm a north east lass and was brought up Labour through and through working class lass from a working class background but I've worked hard for everything I have , serving this country for the last 18 years and watched it go to the dogs in many areas so if anyone has something to piss and moan about with regards to any goverment it should be their servants and theres many of us on here however we get on with it and you change things in the next poll.

Lisa :)

[wiltshire builders]

Bloody hell. Is there no getting away from this "them and us" attitude? It's everywhere.

As Benjamin Franklin said "The only 3 things guarenteed in life are death, taxes and ALL polititians are c***s" ........unless Kevinb runs for office. I like his style.

[BladeTriple]

Bloody hell. Is there no getting away from this "them and us" attitude? It's everywhere.

As Benjamin Franklin said "The only 3 things guarenteed in life are death, taxes and ALL polititians are c***s" ........unless Kevinb runs for office. I like his style.





What is his attitude on cats tho ????

[wiltshire builders]

[quote author=dan_geoghegan link=1286307105/15#19 date=1286395533]Bloody hell. Is there no getting away from this "them and us" attitude? It's everywhere.

As Benjamin Franklin said "The only 3 things guarenteed in life are death, taxes and ALL polititians are c***s" ........unless Kevinb runs for office. I like his style.



What is his attitude on cats tho ????

Lets put it this way, if you need a new fur coat, Kev's yer man.

[JAYJAY]

Someone plese tell me - If we are in this mess because we paid such a massive amount to bail out the banks - the reason for which in any other business would have probably been deemed criminal -

Why don't the banks pay it back now they can afford massive bonuses?

Why are the tories and their sidekicks blaming the bank fat cats criminal gambling failures on labour?

If we are to get our cash back from the banks, how long will it take and what effect will that have on any needs for these massive tory cuts and tax increases?

Remember - 20% VAT from january - It was the tories who raised vat from the original 8%, then 10% then 15% then 17.5% and now 20%.
Party of low taxation???? What short memories people have!

By the way ken - whatever misgivings you may have about our involvement in Afghanistan to start with - the fact is we ARE involved - our countrymen ARE there - facing all kinds of hardship, injury, and their lives. They are our countrymen fighting for their country and deserve all the support we can possibly give them

[t1pper]

Personally I am fed up with being taxed not only in my pay packet but every time I fill my tank,open my energy bills, buy a pint or a smoke, and not to mention vat that is added on many things I buy.
Then to see my taxes spashed around on a benifits culture really goes against the grain.

[redken1]

Someone plese tell me - If we are in this mess because we paid such a massive amount to bail out the banks - the reason for which in any other business would have probably been deemed criminal -

Why don't the banks pay it back now they can afford massive bonuses?

Why are the tories and their sidekicks blaming the bank fat cats criminal gambling failures on labour?

If we are to get our cash back from the banks, how long will it take and what effect will that have on any needs for these massive tory cuts and tax increases?

Remember - 20% VAT from january - It was the tories who raised vat from the original 8%, then 10% then 15% then 17.5% and now 20%.
Party of low taxation???? What short memories people have!

By the way ken - whatever misgivings you may have about our involvement in Afghanistan to start with - the fact is we ARE involved - our countrymen ARE there - facing all kinds of hardship, injury, and their lives. They are our countrymen fighting for their country and deserve all the support we can possibly give them

I do support our brave troops 100 per cent that's why like millions of others I will continue to campaign to bring them home. It breaks my heart to see so many young lives lost in a futile war we can never win.

As a point of interest the amount of missing cash owed to the treasury from the rich club dodging taxes is ten-fold higher than the amount lost in benefit fraud. No one more pleased than me to see that Vince Cable has got them in his sights. Go get em.

[Mitch9128]

The government, the people, now own Northern Rock, why are the millions in profits not being plowed into the economy? 100% the bankers are to blame for the world recession, but the government targets the benefits system, why is that? As for CB claiments being scroungers, ffs they would have to be pretty bad at maths to think they can turn a profit having kids.

[Kevinb]

[quote author=dan_geoghegan link=1286307105/15#19 date=1286395533]Bloody hell. Is there no getting away from this "them and us" attitude? It's everywhere.

As Benjamin Franklin said "The only 3 things guarenteed in life are death, taxes and ALL polititians are c***s" ........unless Kevinb runs for office. I like his style.



What is his attitude on cats tho ????

Lets put it this way, if you need a new fur coat, Kev's yer man.

Please specify colour on the order form. Tabby Cat or Ginger Tom ;D

[redken1]

The vast majority of parents in receipt of child benefit are not scroungers - in fact it is deducted from most state benefits before a final figure is awarded. Numerous contributors on this thread who do not have children take the view that family allowance should be scrapped. We should remember that none of us chose to have parents, but when they reach retirement, through our taxes we finance free bus passes, tv licences etc etc . And in every poll that has been conducted the majority of British people are against the wars in Iraq and afghanistan, so why should we fund them through are taxes?
You are right the vast majority aren't scroungers, but a sizeable minority of those on state-handouts are. Come to where i live, a couple just across the road with no-jobs are on their fifth kiddy. No sense of social responsibility, though they are a bit miffed as they won't get a maternity grant this time and the money they got for other four kept them in cider and fags.

Vote Labour: Each election win comes with a free war! (p.s. i support our troops, not nu-labour b-lox).

Lay off of the new government, they really can't do worse than the last shower-of-****e. :P

As a socialist Red Tories, Blue Tories are both fair game to me. Commenting on the financial mess, Cameron said "We are all in this together." He should have said, you are all in this together. When he raises tuition fees it will be the kids from poor backgrounds who won't go to uni. Won't make alot of difference to kids from rich backgrounds because like Cheri Blair did, Mummy and Daddy will buy them a flat in the city where they are studying.

[JAYJAY]

Well said Ken on both your last posts.

I too want to see our troops home but I also don't want to see the sacrifices that have been made by our fellow countrymen and women to be seen as wasted - that would be a travesty. I don't make any pretence of having the answers so -like you - I give them 100% support and do what I can to raise funds for the benefit of the injured and families of the fallen. I strongly feel that we should ALL be doing that.

As for the scroungers - I just don't know how they do it!! I lost my wife when my 3 children were still very young. The state increased my family allowance by 60p per week - the sum total of my benefits because I was a widowed father and not a widowed mother!

[pilninggas]

The vast majority of parents in receipt of child benefit are not scroungers - in fact it is deducted from most state benefits before a final figure is awarded. Numerous contributors on this thread who do not have children take the view that family allowance should be scrapped. We should remember that none of us chose to have parents, but when they reach retirement, through our taxes we finance free bus passes, tv licences etc etc . And in every poll that has been conducted the majority of British people are against the wars in Iraq and afghanistan, so why should we fund them through are taxes?
You are right the vast majority aren't scroungers, but a sizeable minority of those on state-handouts are. Come to where i live, a couple just across the road with no-jobs are on their fifth kiddy. No sense of social responsibility, though they are a bit miffed as they won't get a maternity grant this time and the money they got for other four kept them in cider and fags.

Vote Labour: Each election win comes with a free war! (p.s. i support our troops, not nu-labour b-lox).

Lay off of the new government, they really can't do worse than the last shower-of-****e. :P

As a socialist Red Tories, Blue Tories are both fair game to me. Commenting on the financial mess, Cameron said "We are all in this together." He should have said, you are all in this together. When he raises tuition fees it will be the kids from poor backgrounds who won't go to uni. Won't make alot of difference to kids from rich backgrounds because like Cheri Blair did, Mummy and Daddy will buy them a flat in the city where they are studying.
Who brought in tuition fees in the first place? I went to uni in 1996 and (thank-god) my fees were paid, but the last lot didn't like this one bit (unless you were, like Blair, Scottish) and made sure anyone at Uni had to pay. I'm working class, have done bum-jobs, been self employed and now work in the public sector and know hand-on-heart that the last government hated those who want to get on in life. Self-employment taxation was far simpler in 1996 than it was in 2001, but labour hate those with a sense of free-enterprise.

[Kevinb]

It looks like the 'poor' will soon have better incomes than the 'middle classes' as it is the 'middle classes' who are being hit from all directions on the income front.

[JAYJAY]

Makes a change from the old adage
'its the rich wot has the pleasure and the poor wot gets the blame' ;D ;D ;D

[t1pper]

It looks like the 'poor' will soon have better incomes than the 'middle classes' as it is the 'middle classes' who are being hit from all directions on the income front.
I have to agree, and if thoose in middle incomes, small business and self employed in particular continue to be targeted it will kill the economy not help it grow.

I was once told that around 90% of people in wiltshire under the old Kennet district council area work in small companies of less than 10 employes, so we are not talking fat cat business leaders just ordinary people who are being targeted as they have the "broadest shoulders?"

These people/small companies should be encouraged not penalised, because they are soft targets.

[redken1]

I go back to the original point on this thread. I am sure I could struggle on £44 thousand per annum with or without child benefit. I would "Cut my cloth to suit" and buy a second bike. LMAO ;D

[Hunar]

Fed up with all the bull**** in politics?

VOTE HUNAR

Fed up with stupid laws?

VOTE HUNAR

Want your life back?

HUNAR FOR PRIME MINISTER!

look we have a facebook page too!

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Hunar-for-Prime-Minister/238421977309

hahahahahahaha

[Last Train]

Ave It !! ;D

[redken1]

Fed up with all the bull**** in politics?

VOTE HUNAR

Fed up with stupid laws?

VOTE HUNAR

Want your life back?

HUNAR FOR PRIME MINISTER!

look we have a facebook page too!

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Hunar-for-Prime-Minister/238421977309

hahahahahahaha

Need a Prime Minister who "Calls a apade a spade" You got my vote Hunar. ;D

[Col]

Only to say that unless the world populations are discouraged from breeding uncontrolled then the human race will eventually sh4g itself into oblivion.

Think on.....it is a fact that if the U.K. population increases at current projected levels then the supply of something we all take for granted will not be in plentiful supply within 20-25 years...

...it is water :o

Hope the beer will be around but gawd knows at what price :'(

Time for pub now :)

[redken1]

Only to say that unless the world populations are discouraged from breeding uncontrolled then the human race will eventually sh4g itself into oblivion.

Think on.....it is a fact that if the U.K. population increases at current projected levels then the supply of something we all take for granted will not be in plentiful supply within 20-25 years...

...it is water :o
Sobering thought when you get back from the pub. How can we continue to make beer without water?

Hope the beer will be around but gawd knows at what price :'(

Time for pub now :)

[redken1]

Only to say that unless the world populations are discouraged from breeding uncontrolled then the human race will eventually sh4g itself into oblivion.

Think on.....it is a fact that if the U.K. population increases at current projected levels then the supply of something we all take for granted will not be in plentiful supply within 20-25 years...

...it is water :o
Sobering thought when you get back from the pub. How can we continue to make beer without water?

Hope the beer will be around but gawd knows at what price :'(

Time for pub now :)



Sorry don't know what happened there but sobering thought when you get back fron the pub. How will we continue to make beer without water?

[Mitch9128]

One thing we WILL NOT be short of is water, jebus 71% of the planet is covered in the stuff!

[redken1]

One thing we WILL NOT be short of is water, jebus 71% of the planet is covered in the stuff!

Many a mariner died at sea from a lack of drinking water

[Mitch9128]

One thing we WILL NOT be short of is water, jebus 71% of the planet is covered in the stuff!

Many a mariner died at sea from a lack of drinking water

Not in this day, i think we have de-salination covered.

[Hunar]

so all we need now is a machine that de-salinates and re-beerifies sea water then?

[Kevinb]

so all we need now is a machine that de-salinates and re-beerifies sea water then?

Just put some flour in as well and you've got beer battered cod