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Squashed_Fly
16-12-10, 09:08 AM
Did anybody else see the ex home office guy this morning, calling for the legalisation of banned substances?

I haven't indulged in recreational chemicals for some time now, not since giving up DJing and the associated lifestyle. But I still think it's amusing (possibly not the right term, but it'll do) that all these experts go into government with such idealistic views that simle prohibition can work, then they come out thinking exactly the opposite. But then they are totally ostricised for their new views, which are finally based on experience, rather than an ideology. Case and point is the fact that those doctors - medical experts in the effects of drugs, said that actually, the effects of ecstacy, cannabis and cocaine are nowhere near as harmful as the government make out. And they were promptly sacked by politicians who don't have a clue!

I don't know what your views are on the subject? You may or may not have experience on the subject. But I'm pretty sure, that legalisation is the key.

The opponent to this, on BBC breakfast said the most stupid thing about the fact that criminals manage to make everything else cheaper and counterfeit and smuggle it in. The point he's missing, is that the millions of us who are intelligent, work hard, and like to let our hair down in our downtime, would rather pay a little more, to get something legally and safer. We're not talking about saving a few quid on smuggled fags, or a fake watch!

Beamer
16-12-10, 09:24 AM
I think Hunar will be able to give some very interesting points of veiw on this. Hehe ;D ;D ;D

ChrisJo
16-12-10, 09:39 AM
@ Squashed_Fly

Drugs are BAD, its that simple!

My ex wifes son is a regular canabis user, his brain is shot to ****, he has the attention span of a knat, a very short fuse and thinks the world hates him.... You can see the effect of a joint in seconds and it's not good.

Why do people think drugs don't do harm? >:(


Chris

Squashed_Fly
16-12-10, 09:56 AM
Drugs are bad, in the same way motorcycles, guns, alcohol, driving etc are. Nothing in life comes without risk. And if you don't give it respect, then most of the things we do for fun can be harmful.

But, on the flip side, if you are sensible, respectful then you can get a lot of enjoyment. The very fact you said he is a 'regular user' indicates a lack of respect for its potential. I'm fairly certain that a few spliffs a week wouldn't have caused that.

I don't know what your personal experience is, nor would I be disrespectful enough to make assuptions. But in younger days, I have known hundreds if not thousands of people who have indulged in some way or another, and cases such as mentioned are an anomaly.

Of course they will claim some 'victims', but you tell me anything enjoyable that doesn't at times? We are all members of a motorcycle forum. And how many times have we heard 'motorbikes are bad, they are dangerous, I knew someone that was killed' etc? Yet we still choose to ride them because we feel that if we are as careful as possible, we can still have fun and we accept that they do come with a risk factor. otherwise they wouldn't be fun.

ChrisJo
16-12-10, 10:33 AM
"Drugs are bad, in the same way motorcycles, guns, alcohol, driving etc are."

Hummmmm

Drugs are bad, in a completly different way to bikes, guns etc. There is no comparison to be drawn.

Yes some people will be 'light' users then other become hard adicts and get into all kinds of problems (theiving, protistution etc.), so do you think it's ok for someone to become an adict? I am sure you don't, but allowing people open access is silly to say the least.

I just feel that drugs server no good purpose in society, that's my view.

If you want to do drugs then do so, but leave me out.

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Squashed_Fly
16-12-10, 10:44 AM
We already have open access, and it's not controlled. Time and time again, society has proven that prohibition on serves to line the pockets of criminals.

I'm guessing from your comments that you don't have any actual personal experience in this area.

For hundred of thousands of years, people have used substances, whether they be herbal or more recently synthetic, with few ill effects. It wasn't really until opium became big in the victorian era that issues with addiction became apparent. Until then, even back as far as caveman days, man has usd the raw materials around him to enhance his sense of wellbeing. and usually to very little harm.
I didn't start this topic as an 'are drugs ok or not' thread, as everyone will have their own opinions. Some based on experience, some based on what they've been told and heard.

However, it was more meant as an open debate on dealing with the regulation of them, and whether our 'war on drugs' is actually having any effect (I'll give you a clue - it has made it worse!). I'm more interested in your opinions on the legalisation and control of it, than whether you agree with people taking them. As that is always a dodgy area!

Just remember - there is more than 1 type of drug, some are more dangerous than others, they all have different effects and only a very tiny proportion cause the kind of social issues that have typically become associated with them - poverty, adiction, crime to fund habits etc.

Please don't pass judgement on the people that comment in this thread one way or the other.

Squashed_Fly
16-12-10, 10:45 AM
Oh by the way, just in case no-one had worked it out yet, I love a good debate! lol

Nothing like a contentious issue to liven things up! ;)

ChrisJo
16-12-10, 10:49 AM
I did have experience. A very long time ago and only once!

And I stand by my comments :)

Good ere init? ::)

Mitch9128
16-12-10, 12:58 PM
Another nice little earner for the gubbermint [smiley=angry.gif]

wiltshire builders
16-12-10, 02:27 PM
Personally I hate drugs. If you've ever been cornered at a party by some tw@t on coke you'll know what i mean.

Ofcourse the government have to be seen to take a hard line on drugs because if they didn't they would lose the votes of most of middle england. It would be nice to hear the truth though so we can make up our own minds. I bet SF is right, they are alot safer than the government make out. Like everything, moderation is the key.

What really pisses me off is when the courts go easier on criminals because they were under the influence of drugs. That should carry a stiffer sentence because it's 2 crimes! I know a lad who was caught dealing in a serious way. He got his sentence slashed because he said he was just doing it to feed his habit. He never touches the stuff and everyone except the courts knew it. >:(

BladeTriple
16-12-10, 02:38 PM
Drugs are bad, in the same way motorcycles, guns, alcohol, driving etc are.

Cars and Motorcycles are tested for their ability and safety for their purpose and road use ... Their operators have to undergo training to be allowed the privellage to use them on the road.

Guns.... Most of us who use them are trained properly to use them,again they are designed and safety tested to do their job withouth hurting their operator and the user should be trained in the correct drills and skills in using whichever weapons system we are using so that the individual and their collegues do not get hurt.

Alchohol is tested by many and any new cigarette or alcohol product going on the market must be tested and given the go ahead for public consumption......

Drugs are not tested or put on the market with that stamp of safety and tested. Drug dealers do not test their product after cutting it with cleaning products, aspirin and god only knows what other sh1te they fill it with , not every 'recreational drug' is a herbal high like weed.... Ecstasy stops your body processing fluids properly and the bladder from working so when the E head gets so high and hot from dancing , the fluids they are putting away fails to get into their bladder to be pee'd away and in turn the fluid has to find its way out, it causes that fluid packed brain to swell and the come out through the eyeballs... Ask Leah Betts' parents, I'm sure they will be happy to share their pictures of their daughter to put you off.

Cocaine is cut with sulphuric acid, lime (used for dissolving bodies) bleach to make it white and god knows what else and is made in some hut in columbia somewhere, not many of these 'recreational drugs' are made in a nice clean lab.... And add to that Drugs are on the market by CRIMINALS, much of Organised Crime funds TERRORISM... so when you think the odd E or line of Coke is ok bear that in mind when you think of the guys and girls putting their lives on the line fighting terrorists or drug cartels in Columbia (don't be so gullible to think our special forces aren't involved in the fight with those) FFS the IRA even went out to Columbia to show the cartels how to make bombs in exchange for their business....

Theres no such thing as an innocent harmless bit of drug taking

Weed aside as I know theres a rant inbound on that one...all users defend their favourite vice after all.... The rest are really pure evil !

Soapbox away.

PS If you want the full ins and outs on drugs get you firm to bring in Gallahad they do lectures on drink and drugs presented by former addicts who have paid with their careers and families for their addiction to drink and or drugs , a real eye opener!

BladeTriple
16-12-10, 02:45 PM
.

What really pisses me off is when the courts go easier on criminals because they were under the influence of drugs. That should carry a stiffer sentence because it's 2 crimes!





SSgt Chris 'Chacks' Chacksfield was killed in Newcastle by a semi pro boxer who came up behind him and his wife ( an army nurse) totally unprovoked and hit them both in the back of the head.

Adele came around to find herself covered in blood and Chris dead on the pavement beside her.

The @rsehole who commited this MURDER got away with the more serious charge as he said in his defence that he was 'off his face on alcohol and COCAINE' like thats a defence ... My god ok you were off your box on illegal substances and you murder someone so first you go down and get cleaned up then you go down for a 25 stretch for murdering an innocent man and assaulting his wife......

Yep I BLOODY HATE DRUGS and their users!

Squashed_Fly
16-12-10, 02:51 PM
Bit one sided though. Just listening to the addicts. What about the millions of people worldwide that enjoy it on the odd occasion, and lead successful lives, have well paid jobs etc.

And the whole purpose of legalising would be to bring some control and a level of safety.

Like I said, I gave it up a couple of years ago, mainly because I want a family and the 2 don't go hand in hand. But it's important to recognise that every coin has 2 sides - a head and a tail. If you bring in people to talk about their negative experiences, then you should give people a voice who have had positive ones. otherwise it's not a well structured debate, it's just propaganda.

In the last 2 years, 3 medical experts in this field have been sacked because they concluded without doubt, that many of these drugs are in fact safer than tobacco and alcohol. When a science proffesional, who has put in years of research, tells you that, then you have to at least accept the possibility that the whole 'all drugs are bad' argument is at best flawed, and at worst just downright nonsense.

It wasn't that long ago that America banned the consumption of alcohol as they believed that 'alcohol was bad', much in the same way that you mention above. And yes - it does ruin lives for some people. But are yuo then saying that thise who can drink responsibly shouldn't be allowed?

And yes - alcohol is just as bad as any of these illegal substances, and in fact causes far more issues as a percantage compared to anything else. Yet we acept it, because it is socially acceptable.

While it is my choice to no longer do some of the things I used to, I think we should be given the opportunity to make well educated choices, about regulated products. Not hear a lot of one sided arguments about a criminally produced product.

Jacde
16-12-10, 03:24 PM
[quote author=Squashed_Fly link=1292486903/0#12 date=1292507517]

Like I said, I gave it up a couple of years ago, mainly because I want a family and the 2 don't go hand in hand

Well SF there for the grace of god go you that you didn't become addicted to the drugs you were using!! The only way you'll know for sure that you'll never become an addict is to not try something in the first place, but we all take risks, hey I like a drink now and then, but thankfully I'm not addicted.
I've seen addiction to drugs and alcohol, I hope never to witness such family devastation again!

Squashed_Fly
16-12-10, 03:32 PM
I've never taken anything addictive. I rarely drink, have never smoked. I hope people don't think I'm a junkie, just because I support the right to choose, and the right to be presented with ALL of the facts before making decisions.

Like I said, this was meant as a discussion about whether the prohibition approach is best, or whether it's legalisation, safetly control and correct education. IMO, it's the latter, regardless of whether you want to do them or not.

Jacde
16-12-10, 03:40 PM
You may think you are taking something that's not addictive but the brain is a VERY powerful organ that we have not much control over, you may think a one armed bandit it not addictive, find a gambler who's lost everything because they started with 10p in one years ago!
Like I said, there for the grace of god

Squashed_Fly
16-12-10, 03:44 PM
Like I said, I'm not debating the rights and wrongs of any activity, just the best way to control it from a legal perspective...

Beamer
16-12-10, 05:07 PM
I may be going off track here a little but I have never done any drugs (except ciggies) and have tried to instill into my children that they are not good....that doesnt make me judge anyone who uses them 'cos thats their choice.....I sent my eldest 2 children to a certain relative to chat about the hellish 3 years she spent in Holloway after getting caught, (unknowingly she said), bringing drugs into the country and the type of people she had been 'knocking around' with at the time.....she even asked me to put my house up so she could come out on bail....no I have not had good experiences when drugs are involved, but some people do.......its all down to personal preference as always

Mitch9128
16-12-10, 05:20 PM
I think prohibition works to a degree, however the youth will want to experiment, and peer pressure is all too strong for some. Some people are all too easily drawn into the world of narcotics, and addiction can easily follow. I wouldn't want to see it legalised, it didn't work in Holland, and it would only draw those in, who otherwise wouldn't touch it.

BladeTriple
16-12-10, 06:17 PM
A friend of mine lived a 'successful' life, started off doing a bit of weed as a kid , gradually moving onto doing a bit of coke here and there, then a bit more, ended up selling his telly once every few months to pay for his hit....

Got a bit better back on the weed instead then back on the coke , eventually even tho he was a successful trademan doing a well paid job enjoying his odd recreational drug now and then , one day his family got a phone call.

It was a lovely day in July 2006 when we put John in the ground in a wooden box thanks to a bit of 'recreational' use that did nobody any harm . He wasn't an addict or thats what he would say . Yet at the the age of 30 his life was over!

And with regards to alcohol being just as evil.... Yes I know , I've seen it destroy several lives as well. That of my Dad, his Dad before him and several of the successful people who my old man used to associate with , jobs, families and livelihoods destroyed because of the demon drink . My Dad was successful but the drink turned him into an animal, as well as the violence towards his wife and kids he also managed to go out fighting gangs of lads on the streets, this from a man who was an executive in ICI , this cost him his job, his family and any respect he may have had. To start his day he would drink a can of Carlsberg Special topped up with a quarter bottle of Bells whiskey and even tho he hammered his body like this he is still alive at the age of 63 drinking 'tesco value' vodka from the bottle or a pint pot when I see him.

This is the result of a legal substance that is controlled yet it still destroys lives not just the ones of the addict. Can you imagine the real devastating effects of drugs use/misuse on those directly linked to someone misusing illegal substances? Thankfully both Kaz's employer (The NHS) and my employer (HM Armed Forces) take a tough line on drug abusers a zero tolerance approach and the end result is more or less an immediate dismissal. I wouldn't want some idiot having flash backs or moments of paranoia beside me on the ranges or in a hostile situation with a live weapon in their hands.... Hopefully compulsary drugs testing is as good as they make out and get rid of that kind of person from our ranks !

Mitch9128
16-12-10, 06:34 PM
CDT hahaha what a joke, i've seen 30+ blokes who have caned substance at the weekend, CDT Monday and only 1 caught, how does that work then? I wasn't an MCTC candidate when in, but i knew who was and i knew what they'd done, very very few get caught, and some postings were rife.

redken1
16-12-10, 06:43 PM
CDT hahaha what a joke, i've seen 30+ blokes who have caned substance at the weekend, CDT Monday and only 1 caught, how does that work then? I wasn't an MCTC candidate when in, but i knew who was and i knew what they'd done, very very few get caught, and some postings were rife.

Mitch know I'm stupid but what's an MCTC?

Mitch9128
16-12-10, 06:55 PM
Military correctional training centre (Colchester).

redken1
16-12-10, 08:27 PM
I don't do drugs because my head is full of mince already. Seriously though, as far as I'm concerned, "The jury is still out" on this one. Alcohol is a legal drug. We are all too aware of the huge social problems related to alcohol when it is consumed in excess. I doubt that banning it would help in reversing the excessive drinking trend. By the same token, I am not sure that legalising banned substances would lead to a fall in addiction levels. That said however, it would cetainy put the wind-up the drug cartels, who currently prosper from a lucrative market. When I lived in Scotland, our vilage had issues relating to drugs and I raised my concerns on numerous occasions at my local Parish Council meetings. It was clear that my local councillors did not have the stomach to engage in a debate on this issue and it was swiftly "swept under the carpet". I do believe that successive governments have been guilty of adopting the aforesaid attitude. If we are to address the curse of all drugs we need to have a grown-up debate on all levels. Just like here [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Scotty
16-12-10, 10:32 PM
...And when you get home to find that you've been turned over by some junkie skank who's legged it with all the electrical goods he could carry and flogged a grand or more's worth down the pub for thirty quid so he could get another couple of fixes? >:(
When dealers get caught with enough on them for an "intent to supply" charge to stick, simply pin the ****ers down and pump them full of it and film them so we can watch the scum die on pay-per-view TV. Suitable disincentive? I'll get it put on the manifesto for The Voice of Reason Party...
I have very unpleasant memories of my life being made hell by a former coke-head who got in under the radar and as a consequence I don't have any sympathy for drug users getting into trouble, they choose to take the stuff and it's not as if it's a secret that heroin and crack are dangerously addictive is it? Who picks up the pieces? Families, friends and us taxpayers... **** 'em >:(

Kevinb
17-12-10, 09:34 AM
As a father and grandfather drugs should be illegal. Supplying of drugs should be a prison sentance.
Saying that if an illegal imigrant can run over a child without having a driving license or insuance and get to stay in the country then the law is an arse. >:(

Nokesy
17-12-10, 11:29 AM
Saying that if an illegal imigrant can run over a child without having a driving license or insuance and get to stay in the country then the law is an arse. >:(

This is just horrendous - don't get it one bit :( I really feel for the family.

Hunar
20-12-10, 06:36 AM
I love and good debate, and the drugs one is my favourite, although most people don’t want a debate, they just want to rant and will not listen, they have their mind made up and that’s it, they are right and everyone else is wrong, I’ve researched this subject for about 5 years, and getting a sensible, grown up debate about it is very rare.

I would like to point out that any opinions or statements I make in this and subsequent posts are purely my own and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the forum or any of its staff or members. I should also point out that I do not advocate everyone using drugs, far from it, but what I do advocate is that people take responsibility for their choice of recreational pleasure.

Prohibition doesn’t work, never has, never will, especially when you try and prohibit something that is in HUGE demand. Now you may be thinking that drug use isn’t that common, and only done in dark alleys with dirty needles, and if you are you couldn’t be further from the truth. The most commonly used illegal drug is Cannabis, I believe the government currently estimate the total amount of regular Cannabis users in the UK is about 8 million, personally I would say that’s incorrect, I would put the total amount much higher, why? Well I am fairly certain that when the government asks people if they take drugs, even if they do, most people would say no, reports done by other organisations who work within the ‘drug world’ put the figure closer to 20 million, when you consider that the UK population is 61.8 million, that’s a fairly large chunk of the population.

In fact, recreational drugs are so much in demand that the global market itself is worth over £300 billion every year, it’s actually the second largest market in the world, the only market larger is oil. In 1998 the UN’s drugs council met under the banner ‘A drug free world, we can do it’, 10 years later drugs use has risen by over 300%, so prohibition works does it? The ‘war on drugs’ through prohibition is a massive failure so far, 300% increase in use in 10 years, and yet we still pursue the same policy? How long do you keep banging you head against the same wall before you realise it hurts and you need to stop and find another way?

One of my favourite quotes about how prohibition doesn’t work comes from an interview with Jack Cole, a retired undercover narcotics officer for the New Jersey State Police, who retired after 26 years service as a Detective Lieutenant, and now works with LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition).

Jack Cole ‘What was the first prohibition?’
Interviewer ‘Erm, the prohibition of alcohol back in the early 20’s to 30’s?’
Jack Cole ‘No I’m talking about the FIRST prohibition, thou shall not eat from the tree of knowledge, and who was the big cop? God, and how many people did he have to watch over? 2, did it work? Nope’

Yes that is right, the current global drugs market is worth over £300 billion, and pretty much all that money goes, tax free remember, straight into the criminal and terrorist groups that control the market. In fact since we invaded Afghanistan, Cannabis and poppy cultivation has rocketed, these are then sold to groups like the Taliban and Al’qaeda, who then sell it to the European drugs markets, to fund their activities. If we went for legalisation, regulation and taxation, we would do more damage to the operational effectiveness of these groups overnight than we could ever achieve through invasion and warfare, with the added bonus of NOT sacrificing hundreds of our troops, AND thousands of innocent civilians. I have come up with what I believe to be a workable solution to Afghanistan, I won’t copy and paste it, this post is probably going to be long enough already, but if you are interested you can check it out here

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hunar-for-Prime-minister/238421977309?v=app_2373072738

So why do people take drugs? Well the simple fact is they are fun, it’s the only reason people start and carry on doing them, you don’t try something, hate it and they go back and do it some more. You also have to accept that not everyone spends their recreational time the same way. I’ve heard the argument ‘well why not take up football, skydiving or <insert other recreational pastime here>’, usually because that’s what they like doing themselves and can’t understand why others don’t. Personally I have no interest in football (or most sports), I have no desire to jump out of a perfectly good aeroplane, spend hours in the gym, collect stamps, or dress up in a cowboy outfit and go line dancing, everyone is different and everyone’s preference on how they relax is different, but I LOVE to get stoned with some good friends, stick the X-Box on, and spend an evening laughing my ass off and chatting with my friends, if you want to throw yourself out of a plane, go for it, if you want to chase a ball around a pitch or court, go for it, it’s your choice, personally I don’t see the attraction, but if we where all the same, it would be a very boring life.

Hunar
20-12-10, 06:36 AM
I appreciate that it’s probably not a popular point of view, but I’ve always had a great time when I have taken recreational drugs, and met some of the nicest people during that time. At the moment I only smoke weed, but in my time I have taken acid, cocaine, speed, ecstasy, mushrooms and cannabis in resin and herbal form, never had any problems, but then there is a difference between use and abuse, that’s something most people cannot get their head around when it comes to illegal drugs. Drugs serve no good purpose in society? Really? Are you sure? Well I guess we need to destroy all the records made by bands like Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Sex Pistols, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, The Beetles, David Bowie, The Rolling Stones, Bob Marley, Motorhead and so on, some of the most iconic tunes released, all recorded and written ‘under the influence’, and replace them with Justin Bieber, McFly, and Johnus brothers albums? Personally I think I will stick with the drug influenced tracks please.

This post could go on for hours, it’s already fairly large, I will try and keep it brief, well as brief as possible, but let’s look at a few things raised so far.

Actually Squashed_fly is correct, drugs are no more dangerous than bikes, cars, guns, alcohol, its how they are used or abused that is the real issue, and you can draw comparisons all the way through. For example, if I ride my bike sensibly, I shouldn’t have any problems apart from those I have no control over, but if I ride like a twat then I run a greater risk of injuring myself and others as well as reducing the reaction time to deal with the issues I have no control over, same thing with drugs, if you use them responsibly you shouldn’t have any major issues, the same way that millions of people in THIS country use recreational drugs every week without problems, but if you use them like a twat then you will increase the likelihood of a problem developing and you can certainly draw comparisons between legal and illegal drugs.

Open access is silly? Again as Squashed_fly already pointed out, we have open access at the moment, anyone can buy any drug they want, there is no control, the minimum age to buy illegal drugs in this country is whatever the lowest price a dealer will charge, if you believe that by legalising that suddenly the streets will be filled with addicts that’s a little far fetched, legalisation doesn’t mean everyone would start doing recreational drugs, would you? How many currently non users on this forum would suddenly start taking recreational drugs if they became legal? I seriously doubt if legalisation was to happen that people who have no intention of trying recreational drugs would suddenly start queuing round the block.

I find it funny the way that people blame the substance for problems when it involves an illegal drug, and the person when it’s a legal drug. A friend of mine was killed on the M4 earlier this year, by a woman speeding under the influence of alcohol, and so far everyone has laid the blame at her feet, she shouldn’t get herself into a state where she is unfit to drive or control her ability to think properly, yet when an illegal drug is mentioned, then it’s the drugs fault and the would never have done it if it wasn’t for the illegal drugs they took. Shouldn’t we just be blaming the people, even if they are ‘loved ones’, they made the choice to use their drug of choice, shouldn’t they take responsibility for that choice? If not, they why are we not banning alcohol? I’ve had 2 friends taken due to drink drivers, I’ve not lost a single friend to drugs, in over 20 years of being part of that scene, and most of the people I know and chill out with are regular users. Or maybe we should ban it just because of the sheer number of morons getting pissed and causing problems in towns and cities up an down the country? Personally I don’t think any kind of drug use should be a defence in court, legal or otherwise, and I think it’s wrong that people get a reduced sentence because of it, and I have yet to find a responsible user who thinks differently. Criminals are not stupid, even those who are not users will say they have an addiction to get a reduced sentence, wouldn’t you? If it meant you got a 5 year sentence rather than a 15 or 20 year stretch?

Lisa mentioned Leah Betts, she would still be alive today if she had been given the correct information about the drug she was taking, having taken ecstasy myself I know what it’s effects are, you feel dehydrated all the time, as a result your brain tells you to drink, but your body has no way to deal with the huge increase of liquids. Leah didn’t die because of ecstasy, she died because of lack of proper education, if she had the information to hand (I have to admit that the information available did become better after her death), she would have known to expect that side effect and the best way to deal with it (if you’re in a club and dancing a lot, you need to drink about a pint an hour, taking small sips rather than big gulps), unfortunately she just drank and drank and drank, and basically drowned, had she or the people around her been given this information before hand, she would be alive today. We give people advice about the legal drugs and legal medication they are sold / prescribed, we can do the same for recreational drugs as well.

Drugs tests are a waste of time, you can take heroin or cocaine on Friday night and pass a test designed to look for those drugs on Monday morning when you go back to work, unfortunately cannabis remain detectable for some time so a violent coke user will pass, but a peace loving weed smoking hippy would fail, personally I would prefer to work with the hippy.

Hunar
20-12-10, 06:37 AM
The reason we are not winning the war on drugs is simple, it’s the same reason everyone loses a war, they don’t control the battlefield. You could take the view that on one side of this war we have the government, their enforcement agencies with all their technology and weaponry, and all us horrible, nasty users on the other, and at the moment us users are winning, The ONLY way our government, and others, will ever get close to winning this war, is to take control of the market, take the power away from the criminal and terrorist groups that control the market, and the ONLY way they will manage that is to legalise, then they can also regulate and tax it, so not only do you remove a HUGE source of revenue for these groups, but you give government a MASSIVE recession proof income, and at the moment we could really use it.

Personally I have never mugged anyone, broken into someone’s house, or committed any other such crime to support any of my drug taking, while I am sure many people believe that if you take any drug you become a thief, prostitute and so on to feed a habit, that’s simply not the case for the vast majority of users, like it or not.

I’m actually not sorry if you hate me because I like to smoke weed or because of the drugs I have done, I have a dislike to alcohol, having been the victim of 2 violent partners who liked to get drunk and start a violent domestic, I’ve been to work with black eyes, chunks missing out of my skin and spent evenings staying out of striking distance, I’ve lost 2 friends to drink drivers as well, maybe I should hate everyone who likes a drink? Or maybe I should realise that not everyone that likes a drink is a violent, partner bashing psycho or a reckless drink driver? If you’re going to make a broad generalisation about users and their drugs, we can apply the same logic to almost anything, are all of our armed forces guilty of torturing Iraqi prisoners or just those few who got caught? Is every builder a cowboy rip off merchant, or just the guys I see on rogue traders? Is every police officer an arse, or is it just the one who gave you a speeding ticket? Is every biker a violent thug, or is it just the few who grab the headlines?

Oh and feel free to pin me down and pump me full of weed, as long as you’re paying, it’s non lethal, so far no ones has ever been given enough to induce death. There is a test called the LD50 (Lethal Dose 50%), and as the name suggests it’s at what dosage 50% of you test subjects die as a result of the substance you are giving them. OK, Paracetamol wanna guess what the LD50 is for that? Well it’s 1:15, that means 15 x the ‘normal dose’ is enough to induce a lethal result, so for an adult the normal dose is 2 tablets, so 30 tablets will kill you. You can buy a pack of 32 tablets in Asda for 45p, off the shelf with no restriction apart from age, some of the cancer treatments my mother was taking had a LD50 ratio of 1:2. Cannabis has an ESTIMATED (As no one has managed to induce a lethal response in a single subject, let alone 50%) LD50 ratio of 1:40,000, which when calculated out would mean that I would need to consume about 1500 pounds (in weight) of Cannabis, in less than 15 mins to POSSIBLY induce a lethal response, in the name of scientific research I am prepared to give it a try, but at the current Swindon prices (although for buying 1500lbs you should get a discount, but if you where to buy it as a normal deals) that would cost you £6,804,000, so someone else can foot the bill.

The one thing all of the horror stories have in common is that prohibition didn’t work, it didn’t save Leah Betts, or any of the other people mentioned here, and these are the people it’s meant to protect? Unfortunately when people suffer as a result of someone they know taking drugs or being attacked by someone who’s lost it, they react with emotions rather than thought, a knee-jerk reaction, it’s only natural I guess, they think prohibition means control, it doesn’t, no seriously it doesn’t, all it does is hand over all the control and tax free profits to criminals and terrorists, which does more harm than the actual drugs do.

But sure we can continue down the prohibition route if people think it’s a valid one, and keep hoping that it might one day work, or we can stop, remove our heads from our arses, think about it logically, and find a better route.

R1chie
20-12-10, 08:43 AM
:o

Scotty
20-12-10, 09:14 AM
A fair viewpoint, eloquently put Hunar.

Discuss...

BladeTriple
20-12-10, 11:25 AM
Nothing to discuss from my angle ... I come from a background and an evironment where drugs are not just frowned upon but will cost you your career if you are caught and long may that policy continue ... I don't want to be working alongside pill poppers and junkies... end of story. It's not like saying I don't want to work alongside a religious or race group ... that would be intolerance.... DRUGS destroy lives!

I know Stu has very strong opinions and will not change his point of view nor will I , this is one subject that I stand fast on and will not back down on .... I will not put my full view and opinion on here as it would be very strong .

I've lost a friend through an RTA avoidable... A friend fighting in Iraq also avoidable and one through a drugs overdose .... again avoidable.

The one driving was an unfortunate incident but done on the public roads driving a legally recognised mode of transport.... The one who died in Iraq did so defending his country and alongside his collegues. The one who died of drugs died using an illegal substance that wasn't tested, that had no bench mark , who's consistency and strength wasn't guaranteed...

There is no SCIENCE when cutting this crap, its pad it out to make as much profit on the junk as you can and then feed it to punters who will jack it into their veins destroying them, snorting so much that their septum collapses.... Not everyone has the money that Daniella Westbrook had to have it replaced cosmetically.

Fill it with all kinds of crap because if you kill the odd customer it doesn't matter ... There will be another line of sad dependant souless broken punters who are just begging to have their pityful already sad lives destroyed by the rubbish they are putting out.

There is no customer after care, no complaints procedure , no ombidsman to protect people buying illegal drugs.

If you take drugs be prepared to OD on your first hit and potentially die.... Yes life is full of calculated risks, but the chance of dying from your first trip ? Sorry not for this callsign, I'd rather gouge my eyeballs out with blunt spoons!

Stu I don't hate you , I will just never see eye to eye with you on this subject EVER! I just hope that you don't ever lose someone to drink or drugs, its such a sad pointless waste, to be honest I'm surprised my old man is still alive after 40 odd years of destroying his body with drink !

Good luck mate and I hope that your brain isn't frazzled with this crap and you're paranoid to death beyond recognition in years to come and that the extra tar that comes with smoking weed doesn't give you cancer leaving you a gasping wheezing husk of a man relying on that little tank of oxygen in a container constantly by your side .

Lis'

Squashed_Fly
20-12-10, 03:13 PM
DRUGS destroy lives!


If you take drugs be prepared to OD on your first hit and potentially die....

I was rather hoping we would get some intellectual, well researched comments, rather than ridiculous opinions based on absolutely no evidence. That's like saying, the first time you cross the road, be prepared to be hit by a car and die! If you want to argue your case, at least back it with something tangible, not just hearsay nonense peddled at you by people who don't know better.

Squashed_Fly
20-12-10, 03:44 PM
Hunar - you kind of said everything I wanted to, but didn't have the time to type! lol

Nobody here, even those that do/did drugs at some point, is saying they aren't without risk. We are just saying it's a calculated risk, and with a little bit of education and respect, it doesn't have to be as bad as BT makes out.

Why is it that people that agree with Hunars POV are prepared to accept the views of of people such as BT, even if they disagree, yet people in BT's camp are adamant they are right and no-one else can possibly be? Seems a touch arrogant to presume you are right and no-one else can be? Sorry if that sounds rude, it's not meant to be...

Beamer
20-12-10, 04:46 PM
All Im gonna say on this one is that EVERYBODY is entitled to a point of view......whether it agrees with yours or not.
These points of view are important to the person that wrote them so they should be accepted without fear of ridicule or 'being put down' by another.
Not agreeing with someone does NOT make them any less intelligent than another...it just means they are seeing things from the other side of the coin, so to speak.
If debates are gonna happen on here then please remember to respect fellow members and their thoughts, ideas and contributions.

[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

redken1
20-12-10, 08:39 PM
As I have already said on this Thread, I accept that legalising drugs would probably at worst reduce and at best wipe out the underworld's ill-gotten gains from the sale of illicit drugs. I am not convinced however, that legalising drugs would in itself lead to a fall in addiction levels or in its occasional use. We already have a drug which is legal to consume, called alcohol and its abuse is clearly escalating. The UK is one of the top ten in the world for alcohol consumption per head of population. "The Office for National Statistics" reported in November 2006 that the alcohol related death rate in the UK doubled from 4,144 deaths in 1991 to 8,386 deaths in 2005. I respect your views and I agree with you Hunar that we are losing the war on drugs, but how can we be sure that legalising them won't make matters much worse? Despite the fact that the government "Control the Battlefied" in relation to alcohol abuse, I suspect that most NHS Chief Executives and Police Chief Constables may have strong veiws as to who is winning the war?

Squashed_Fly
20-12-10, 09:31 PM
Sorry, no offence meant ;)

Hunar
20-12-10, 10:18 PM
Drugs destroy lives in the same way that car accidents, prescription medication, alcohol, skydiving, crossing the road, peanuts and vast amounts of other legal substances and activities destroy lives, most of which are preventable with some education and some respect, as SF said, maybe instead of blaming the substance, you need to blame the person who ABUSES it.

You say you don’t hate me, yet in a previous post you claimed to hate all drug users and their drugs, so do you make an exception in my case? Or was that a broad sweeping generalisation? The problem with making such generalisations is that usually you are wrong, I refer to a previous point about SOME members of our armed forces abusing people who are under their care, are they all like that? Are you? Or would I be making sweeping generalisation on the many, based on what I have seen on the internet and on the TV committed by the few? I’ve been out on the town with member of our armed forces a few times, usually it’s been a fun evening (and yes I have seen quite a few of them taking lines of coke, and drinking heavily, with the excuse that alcohol isn’t a banned substance, and by the time they have to report back, the cocaine will not be traceable if they are made to take a test), but there have been a number of occasions where one of them had a bit to much to drink and lost the plot, should I make a generalisation that every member of our armed forces is a violent thug at best after a few drinks? Or should I just say that PERSON is a violent thug after a few drinks, and in no way represents the vast majority of our serving soldiers? Oddly enough, it was only the guys who only drank that caused the problems, I don’t recall a single incident where one of the guys who I saw had taken a controlled substance ever got into any bother that they caused. As a biker, you know the generalisation we face from the public, we’re all big hairy MALE bikers who are members of violent and dangerous 1% clubs, we all carry shotguns and other weapons and will shoot people as the travel down a road, or rush into an airport with machetes and baseball bats to have a pop at another rival group of bikers who have just landed. You know, and I know that’s a pile of ****, once again the actions of the few taint the views of the many, but if you are happy to make generalisations and class them as fact, then by your own argument you are a dangerous heavy drinking gun toting prisoner beating thug, now personally I know that not to be true, but if you want to make generalisations based on the actions of the few then you have to expect people to do the same to you.

Of course there is no science to cutting drugs, and that’s where the VAST majority of problems come from, more people die every year as a result of the crap that’s cut with their drug of choice that actually die as a result of taking the drug itself. Legalisation would solve that problem overnight, and cut out the major problem for every user, with proper labelling and education people can use recreational drugs without problems, will know exactly how strong their purchase is.

I’m not sure what horror stories you have been filled with, but none of what you are saying has any resemblance to anything I have witnessed in the past 20 years, you seem to think that anyone who uses recreational drugs is a down and out waster, with destroyed veins and a missing septum, whether you want to admit it or not, you are so far wide of the mark, I know people who have taken recreational drugs for years, still have a solid family life, hold down a job, and live what you and I would call a normal productive life. This image that you have that drugs will ruin every single person who takes them is just not real, yes there are some people who experience problems, but they are in the minority, just like those soldiers who abused people in their care are probably in the minority as well. At the moment we leave education, access and quality control of recreational drugs up to the criminals and terrorists that currently control the market seems a bit stupid to me, but there we go. With legalisation you would get the control, you would get the after care, you would get the complaints procedure and the protection, as you do in every legal aspect of your life, the criminals and terrorists would lose out on all that revenue, which would actually go into the government coffers (£300 billion a year, that might help clear our debt, or at least pay for our MP’s expenses!), we would stop losing our troops fighting the drug cartels in Columbia, and pretty much solve all of the major issues surrounding the drug market.

Be prepared to OD the first time you take drugs, are you serious? All drugs? You are aware, for example, that it is completely impossible for someone to overdose on Cannabis? While I think that SF’s comment may be a little harsh or blunt, I agree 100% with his statement. You see one side of the coin, and that’s all you are prepared to see or accept, you cannot accept that the vast majority of users never experience any of the problems you mention. Cocaine and heroin are nasty life wrecking drugs? Do I need to mention that both are used in huge amounts on a daily basis in the medical professions as painkillers and anaesthetics? If you are wounded on the battlefield, the chances are that the medics who treat you at the scene will use one of those drugs to help you, if you have to go in for an operation they will most likely use one of these drugs on you. Once again I must point out that there is a difference between responsible use and abuse, as I don’t think you can accept that when it comes to drugs at least.

Hunar
20-12-10, 10:18 PM
I’ve lost 2 friends to drink, neither was their fault, they where killed by someone who had been drinking, I lost my home and my kids to my partners love of the drink, so far I have not lost anyone to drugs, so just on my experiences, should we legalise drugs and ban alcohol? It’s the same argument you put across, just in reverse, as your experiences differ from mine. I know I wouldn’t support a ban on alcohol, despite my personal opinions and experiences of it, would you? You take a calculated risk when you signed up, I hope it never happens to you, but you could be killed outright with a single shot or blast because of your choice, there have been several of our troops who have been killed on their first tour of active duty since they finished training, are their families happy about it? I assume that they can take some comfort in the fact that they died protecting our rights, freedoms and country, but I doubt very much they are all jumping for joy at their loss, and urging all of children in their friends and family circles to sign up and go and fight. There are risks in everything we do, what’s acceptable to you isn’t the same as what’s acceptable to me, but that’s not a reason for me to rubbish your choices because I don’t agree with them, or say that you are wrong because of them, or tar you with the same brush and insult you because of the actions of a few of the members of our armed forces. Personally I consider all of the lives of out troops and innocent civilians lost in places like Iraq and Afghanistan a sad pointless waste, although I have to say that while I am saddened by the loss of members of our armed forces, I find it offensive that the amount of innocent civilians killed during these wars is ignored by the media and government., but that’s a different debate.

Actually cannabis doesn’t cause cancer, if you can find me a scientific report that does I would appreciate it, I’ve looked and can’t find one, but to be honest that comment just confirms the level of ignorance that most people have surrounding drugs and their use. I can’t really say my brain is frazzled or not, I guess other people will have to decide that, maybe it will take another 20 years? I’ll let you know then. The only thing that I am really paranoid about is the government, and with good reason I think, what with the illegal wars, expense fiddling, u-turns on pre-election promises, etc, I think anyone who doesn’t care or isn’t a little paranoid about what our politicians do are just blind, the amount of people who says ‘politics, I’ve no interest’ are really just letting them get away with it. As a result of our governments choices hundreds of our troops have lost their lives in a war they shouldn’t be fighting, thousands of innocent civilians have been killed by both sides, people who would have lived if government had taken a more informed choice, rather than just result to fight fight fight, but I guess that’s how some people think you solve a problem, it’s not, all you solve there is who is better armed, trained and stronger, not what or who is right or wrong.

To those people who say ‘why would the government lie to us about drugs?’, well that’s a fairly easy one to answer, cos they can, and it means they get support for whatever policy they want. They lied to us about WMD in Iraq to get support from the people to go to war, when all they really wanted was control of the oil. Both Cameron and Clegg have called for the drugs policy to be reviewed, and now they are in power is it happening? Of course not, what politicians say to get elected and what they do when they are elected are and have always been 2 different things, look at the student fees problem at the moment for example, the lib dems signed a pledge vowing not to increase tuition fees, and here we are with tuition fees potentially rising by 300%, many people in government got a university education for free, and now they are stopping others from getting that chance, doesn’t seem fair.

Maybe I should point out that almost every single one of us is a drug user. Do you drink coffee? Caffeine is a drug, just because it’s legal, doesn’t make it not a drug or even safe, same with alcohol, tobacco, headache tablets and so on. If you want a fun little experiment to try to show you how many addicts you work with, just change their coffee from regular to decaf and don’t tell them. I’ve done it, it’s very funny, but you will need a workplace where coffee is made manually and not from a vending machine. Empty the coffee jar, and fill the same jar with extra strong coffee with a high, yet safe and approved amount of caffeine in it, let people use that for a month or so, then suddenly change it to decaf, sit back and watch people pop. The legal drugs are just as dangerous if not more so than most or all of the illegal ones, but we grant people the level of responsibility to self administer them responsibly. When people go to far, that’s not a fault of the drug, legal or not, it’s the fault of the individual, and that’s where we should lay the blame, we should also be responsible enough to put policies in place to better identify and help people who experience problems, rather than leave their demise in the hands of unscrupulous dealers and treating them like outcasts, that’s only going to make their problem worse, and if you can help these people BEFORE it gets to the stage they harm themselves or others, then you have prevented the problem, rather than cured it,

Hunar
21-12-10, 12:27 AM
and prevention is ALWAYS better than cure.

Good luck to you as well, I hope that your brain isn’t left oozing out of a hole in your head on some distant battlefield, or you return with several limbs missing, or suffering the HUGE physiological problems that combat can cause, relying on the bottles of medication to help you cope and survive, more so if the war you died or became injured in is considered illegal, you and your loved ones going through all that just to be told you shouldn’t have been there in the first place.

redken1
21-12-10, 12:35 AM
I am certainly not advocating the prohibition of alcohol, merly pointing out that this single drug which, is widely accepted as one of the biggest contributors to the breakdown in society, is legal. How could we turn back the clock, if we legalised curently banned substances and discovered that its consumption and the associated social problems escalated like alcohol?

Hunar
21-12-10, 04:16 AM
Alcohol isn't really the problem though, it's SOME of the people that use it who cause a problem, the same as it is with any drug, legal or not. At the moment we live in a blameless society, it’s always someone or something else that’s to blame. If we want to reduce the problems we have with alcohol abuse then we need to place responsibility on the user to use alcohol responsibly, and punish them ONLY when they cause harm to other people or their property, and punish them in a way that makes them think twice before doing it again. I would go as far as making them pay for the damages they have caused, if they cause a grands worth of damage, then they pay at least a grand to fix it + costs. Where this falls down is with some people who are on low incomes or benefits, we have in our society people who really don’t care how much damage they cause or how much the courts will award their victims in damages, if they don’t have the money to pay, then the courts can’t take it from them, and they cannot reduce their income because if they are on benefits or low incomes they will not have enough money to survive. That money is paid to the victim by the tax payer, that’s right guys, when one of these people commits a crime and their victim is awarded compensation, if the criminal can’t pay, you do, you pay for their crimes via the Criminal Injury Compensation Authority, and as they know they don’t have to pay or take responsibility for that bill, they just keep on doing it. Anyone else think that’s wrong? And when we finally stop giving them suspended sentences and send them to prison, you then pay for them to stay there, as well as paying their victims compensation. Personally I would prefer to make criminals work to repay their debt to society rather than sit on their ass for 12 months, watching sky, surfing the net, playing games on the playstation or pool table, how can they be repaying their debt if they are just locked up?

Even with all the problems related to alcohol abuse, the vast majority of weekend party goers don’t cause any problems, once again it’s the minority causing a problem for the majority. All of you responsible alcohol users are probably going to pay a increased amount for the same alcohol you consume at the moment, all because some other people can’t control themselves, you’re being punished for their mistakes, is that fair? Why are the people who actually cause the problem not punished themselves? Surely that’s fairer than punishing those people who act responsibly? Now why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, I’m being punished for the actions of people like the boxer who killed Chris Chacksfield, John (sorry Lisa you didn’t mention a surname), ChrisJo’s ex-wife’s son, and all of the other people who cause problems for themselves or others because they don’t know when to call it a day, or use any drug irresponsibly, that’ll be why it sounds familiar then. These people cannot use drugs responsibly, so that means I can’t use them either, and that’s fair is it?

If you want to reduce the alcohol abuse, punish the people who abuse it, not the people who don’t, and punish them in exactly the same way as you would punish someone who committed the same crime without the influence of alcohol, apply that same principle to legalised recreational drugs and you should see a reduction of abuse in both. Couple that with a better education on all drug use and dangers, rather than just shouting and screaming about how bad it is and you shouldn’t do it, and you get a better solution to the problem, you’re never going to stamp it out completely and you’re not living in this world if you think you can. I have no idea what the current drug education is like, but I didn’t get much at school other than ‘they’re bad don’t do them’ and I didn’t get any education on the dangers of alcohol that I can recall.

BladeTriple
22-12-10, 07:47 PM
Good luck to you as well, I hope that your brain isn’t left oozing out of a hole in your head on some distant battlefield, or you return with several limbs missing, or suffering the HUGE physiological problems that combat can cause, relying on the bottles of medication to help you cope and survive, more so if the war you died or became injured in is considered illegal, you and your loved ones going through all that just to be told you shouldn’t have been there in the first place.



Highly unlikely given I'm the kind of comms geek that would sit in Bastion or KAF not out on patrol but thanks, I do comms not bombs !


SF the point on dying from your first hit on an overdose is very real, I'm sure Leah Betts was on her first trip when she was found dead with her brain pushing her eyeballs out of their sockets.

I could go on for ages as well but its a waste of energy , every addict and user defends their vice .... I mean I spend a fortune on chocolate an my god my poor hips and bum have to work that right off all the time or I'd face coronary disease from being a lardy bum! ;D

redken1
22-12-10, 08:26 PM
Good luck to you as well, I hope that your brain isn’t left oozing out of a hole in your head on some distant battlefield, or you return with several limbs missing, or suffering the HUGE physiological problems that combat can cause, relying on the bottles of medication to help you cope and survive, more so if the war you died or became injured in is considered illegal, you and your loved ones going through all that just to be told you shouldn’t have been there in the first place.



Highly unlikely given I'm the kind of comms geek that would sit in Bastion or KAF not out on patrol but thanks, I do comms not bombs !


SF the point on dying from your first hit on an overdose is very real, I'm sure Leah Betts was on her first trip when she was found dead with her brain pushing her eyeballs out of their sockets.

I could go on for ages as well but its a waste of energy , every addict and user defends their vice .... I mean I spend a fortune on chocolate an my god my poor hips and bum have to work that right off all the time or I'd face coronary disease from being a lardy bum! ;D


Kaz, I am hooked on nicotine, but I would never defend smoking. Doubtless, It will be my New Year's resolution for the 10th year in a row. ;D

redken1
22-12-10, 08:28 PM
oops! I meant to say to give up.

Squashed_Fly
22-12-10, 10:40 PM
SF the point on dying from your first hit on an overdose is very real, I'm sure Leah Betts was on her first trip when she was found dead with her brain pushing her eyeballs out of their sockets.




Can I possibly recommend you read the coroners report from the Leah Betts incident? Or at least research what actually happened? Once you know the actual facts, rather than the media hype, you'd realise what an utterly ridiculous statement that is, and how it does nothing to prove your point. You couldn't be more wrong. I'm not defending drugs here, rather the principal that before you post such opinionated things, you should make sure you write is accurate, or else it leaves you looking rather silly. I've done it myself - posted something extremely opinionated thinking I had a clue what I was talking about. Turns out I didn't, and I was equally berated.

BladeTriple
23-12-10, 12:38 AM
Sorry read it she died from the swelling of her brain from drinking water which the E prevented her body from processing properly which had she not taken the pill wouldve worked properly and chances would be she wouldve sweat it out or pee'd it out first however the pill regardless of how contaminated it was or not was the catalyst in her death. This goes back to the quality control or lack of previously mentioned

Lis'

BladeTriple
23-12-10, 12:44 AM
All drugs help stimulate centres in the brain that occur naturally , personally to chill I pick up my acoustic, for thrills I go for a blast on the bike and for adrenaline and endorphins highs I go for a 90 minute run, trust me on this , once you've ran that long and stop the chemical reward from your brain is awesome , just look how wrecked marathon runners look and that's good for your body (apart from the knackered knees and hips by which time I will have titanium replacements lol)

Squashed_Fly
23-12-10, 08:30 AM
Lol, I know what you mean about the stuff that's 'good for you' doing more damage sometimes. I wrecked my knees doing Tai Kwondo when I was younger (and actually in some sort of shape. Hey, isn't round a shape though? lol).

For my thrills, I surf, ride my bike, scuba dive and I did go mountain biking until I moved down to Swindon where there are NO HILLS!!!!! lol

this debate is probably best left alone now, I think everyone who has a point of view has probably commented and got their point accross. I'm sure nobody wants to offend anyone else by being overly passionate about their opiniions. I certainly don't [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Davey
23-12-10, 09:51 PM
Personally I don't think drugs should be legalised - for those that didn't know I am a former cocaine addict and have battled for years to keep clean and having drugs available legally would be too much! I fell into drugs after I left the forces and suffered depression and found the 'easy' way out. Yes I will occasionally do a bit of weed but in no quantity and can take it or leave it, but if times were hard and I could pop to the local shop for a fix its too much. I have been with someone who died from ecstasy who I knew very well and in the press the said it was his first time.......was it f*ck - there was also other truths said that was total bollocks. So don't believe the press. Also one of my best mates is a drug rehablitaion councillor and the **** he has to deal with is horrific - majority started on a little weed.....go on it won't do any harm just a little bit of puff! How many have heard that - I have!

On the other hand I also think the sentances for dealers should be a lot harsher!