DSA dictate what to wear on test

[silly_simon]

Pinched this from the fazer owners site :o Maybe Mark can fill us in on the proposals :D

"We recived the following e-mail from the DSA at work on Friday, and there is a copy on their website. Could this be the start of legislation to dictate what you must wear when riding a motorcycle???


"DSA is reminding learner motorcyclists to wear suitable clothing when they take their module one and two motorcycle tests.
While most motorcycle trainers encourage their pupils to wear the best protective motorcycle gear that they can afford, some candidates aren’t following this advice.
DSA doesn’t want to restrict candidates to wearing the most expensive protective motorcycle clothing. However, DSA’s examiners won’t ignore or condone riding a motorcycle or scooter while wearing unsuitable clothing.
Tests won’t go ahead if you are inappropriately dressedFrom 1 July, examiners might tell you that your test won’t go ahead if you arrive inappropriately dressed. However, where possible, examiners will give you the chance to find suitable clothing within the time available.
DSA won’t pay out-of-pocket expenses if your test is cancelled because of inappropriate clothing.
Guide to suitable clothingAs a general guide the following is an indication of the minimum level of clothing acceptable:
•motorcycle boots
•sturdy footwear or boots that provide support and ankle protection
•textile or leather motorcycle trousers
•heavy denim trousers
•heavy denim jacket with several layers underneath
•textile or leather motorcycle jacket
•motorcycle gloves
The following are examples of clothing that are not acceptable:
•lightweight training shoes
•canvas basket ball trainers
•any form of clothing with areas of exposed skin
•shell suit or lightweight tracksuit
•distressed ripped jeans
•lightweight fleece or hoody
•no gloves or skiing gloves
In all cases it’s a legal requirement that riders wear an approved and correctly fastened motorcycle helmet,* with suitable eye protection (*an exception is made for members of the Sikh religion wearing a turban).
Cases of inappropriate clothingRecently there have been cases where candidates have arrived unsuitably dressed for the practical test. This has included wearing lightweight nylon shell suits, lightweight canvas training shoes, or wearing no gloves.
One of these cases resulted in the test not going ahead.
More advice and guidanceClothing is one of the subjects covered in element A of compulsory basic training (CBT).
Further advice and guidance for candidates on the right clothing to wear can be found"

[Squashed_Fly]

That all sounds quite reasonable to be fair.

Lost count of how many times I've seen moped riders going round in shorts & flipflops in the hot weather...

[Uber Dave]

That all sounds quite reasonable to be fair.

Lost count of how many times I've seen moped riders going round in shorts & flipflops in the hot weather...

Thats their choice, we are already enough of a nanny state without people telling me what I can and cant wear when I go to the shops. I know it wil hurt if I come off in shorts and a t-shirt, but its MY DAMN CHOICE!

[BB]

Sounds reasonable to me, play the game to take the test. It makes me cringe when I see people without gloves or in T shirt & shorts.

When I saw the grazing on my leathers after I had slid down the road through no fault of my own, I was really glad I'd had the full kit on. I can still leave fingerprints! 8-)

BB

[bobf279]

Bit like driving with your hands at 10 to 2 on your car test.
Wear reasonable kit for the bike tests then its your choice, your life your body. You'd only regret not wearing reasonable kit if you fail to stay shiny side up.

[t1pper]

The test is all about making sure people achive a safe standard of riding and a full understanding of good practice.

This should include wearing suitable and safe clothing, while taking a test.
We have to show good practice when riding during test conditions. Why should suitable clothing not be a part of it?

Also the examiner should have a duty of care while the rider is under his control to make sure they are safe.

Lastly outside of test conditions people DO have the right to were what they want no matter how daft it might be !! :D

[Taylor911]

Tests i can understand them dictating what to wear.

But apparently in France and Ireland there is talk of Hi-Viz jackets being made law... :-[

[redken1]

That all sounds quite reasonable to be fair.

Lost count of how many times I've seen moped riders going round in shorts & flipflops in the hot weather...

Thats their choice, we are already enough of a nanny state without people telling me what I can and cant wear when I go to the shops. I know it wil hurt if I come off in shorts and a t-shirt, but its MY DAMN CHOICE!

Could not agree more - in a free democracy we should be allowed to wear what we bl***y like. If the government is so concerned about the wellbeing of its citizens it should take immediate action to prevent the thousands of pensioners from dying from cold related illness every winter. :'( We are an easy target - sick and tired of this anti-biking hidden agenda. >:(

Rant over

[Silverrider]

Tests i can understand them dictating what to wear.

But apparently in France and Ireland there is talk of Hi-Viz jackets being made law... :-[

Yes and the French bikers have been protesting in their own unique way ;D ;D ;D

http://ukfrance.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/18jun11-demo-valence-1.jpg

[Mark_Able]

Yep, it's all true. Obviously I think anyone riding a bike should wear the suitable clothing. But I have two issues.

1. At the moment we all have freedom of choice as to what we wear when riding, with the exception of the helmet. As much as I hate to see anyone riding in the wrong sort of gear, it's their choice. Educate, not legislate. This could be the tip of the iceberg, where it becomes law that you have to wear motorcycle gear. When I first started riding as a poor teenager, I didn't have (couldn't afford) the proper gear, so wore whatever did the job reasonably well. We have enough laws putting folks off getting on a bike. We don't need anymore.

2. There will be certain examiner's who will take the new rules to the extreme, and bar some from taking their test, maybe because the boot doesn't quite cover enough ankle.

I'm sure there will be scope for legal action. If the law doesn't dictate motorcycle clothing, how can the DSA?

Just from my own point of view, I won't train anyone who doesn't take clothing seriously. I've sent people home who have turned up in hoodies and shorts. I've even had a lady turn up in skirt and stilletoes... ::)

[Dabz]

don't see any issue with the legislation. the more protected riders are when they come off, the less it'll cost in NHS bills patching them back together. The more it costs the more tax we pay..so for those political activists among us, you can't have it both ways :P

I think it's perfectly acceptible for them to require safe and protective clothing. no different to when you need protective clothing at work - do people kick up a fuss saying "i won't wear goggles while I weld, it's my human right not to?" no they don't...so why is it any different when riding a bike?

[Squashed_Fly]

That all sounds quite reasonable to be fair.

Lost count of how many times I've seen moped riders going round in shorts & flipflops in the hot weather...

Thats their choice, we are already enough of a nanny state without people telling me what I can and cant wear when I go to the shops. I know it wil hurt if I come off in shorts and a t-shirt, but its MY DAMN CHOICE!

If people are stupid enough to ride like that, then they obviously need to be told. If they were sensible of their own volition, it wouldn't need making law?

You forget, if you hit someone and come off, and smear your carcass all down the road, with skin & limbs coming off everywhere, it's not just you that that affects. It's pretty selfish to assume it's just all about you?

[Mark_Able]

Hey Dabz, I know what you're saying. You have to remember that biking was perceived to be a cheap hobby/transport to work. What I'm saying is, you don't have to be wearing pukka bike gear to find a reasonable level of protection. And some folks can't afford it. It's an employers responsibility to clothe an employee, but an individuals responsibility on a bike. Ski gloves (if nothing else was available) was always considered better than nothing. Where is the definition between trainer and walking boot, for example? Asking a 17 year old to go and buy £500 of gear may be considered a bit over the top. We've always tried to recommend cheap alternatives, not necessarily bike gear. How many people ride in jeans? According to the DSA guidelines, it has to be heavy weight denim. Too many reasons for examiners to bail out of doing tests... >:(

[Beamer]

[quote author=Mark_Able link=1309193622/9#9 date=1309204619]Yep, it's all true. Obviously I think anyone riding a bike should wear the suitable clothing. But I have two issues.

1. At the moment we all have freedom of choice as to what we wear when riding, with the exception of the helmet. As much as I hate to see anyone riding in the wrong sort of gear, it's their choice. Educate, not legislate. This could be the tip of the iceberg, where it becomes law that you have to wear motorcycle gear. When I first started riding as a poor teenager, I didn't have (couldn't afford) the proper gear, so wore whatever did the job reasonably well. We have enough laws putting folks off getting on a bike. We don't need anymore.

2. There will be certain examiner's who will take the new rules to the extreme, and bar some from taking their test, maybe because the boot doesn't quite cover enough ankle.

I'm sure there will be scope for legal action. If the law doesn't dictate motorcycle clothing, how can the DSA?

Just from my own point of view, I won't train anyone who doesn't take clothing seriously. I've sent people home who have turned up in hoodies and shorts. I've even had a lady turn up in skirt and stilletoes... ::)



No...It wasnt me lmao !!!!! ;D ;D ;D

[Mark_Able]

Would've helped with the height issue though Tina... ;)

[Squashed_Fly]

Mark, I may be wrong here, but do most training centres carry spare kit for people doing CBTs etc? I've done a few over the years, with 3 or 4 different centres, and they all had kit that we could use. This extended to the bike test also if required.

I was always told, if you can't afford safe kit, you can't afford to ride. You can get fully kitted up in George Whites for less than £100. I'll never forget my first CBT instructor telling me that as you slide down the road at 20mph, you lose the 1st layer of denim within 2 metres, then it's 1mm of skin/flesh for every extra metre you slide afterwards. That's a hell of a mess for other people to have to see and/or clear up.

I've ridden in jeans before, so I'm half playing devils advocate, but it's not something I do very often, and I have almost 12 years of riding experience. I certainly wouldn't recommend shorts & t-shirt to a 17 year old who is out for the first time on a 'ped, possibly trying to keep up with his/her mates etc.

IMO, it's a good lesson to teach at the start of someones motorcycle career, then when you have some experience, age & wisdom, you can perhaps take some minimal risks. Even when in jeans, I still have my leather jacket, and boots or very sturdy trainers on.

[Mark_Able]

Incidentally, the DSA didn't even have the decency to inform most of the Training Bodies like ourselves. We only heard by word of mouth. DSA is a complete shambles, but that's another story... >:(

[Mark_Able]

Yes SF, we do carry some kit. But boots of every size? Leather trousers to fit all? Gloves keep getting nicked as well... ::)

We should ask for donations of old kit really. Don't chuck old kit away, chuck it our way... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[Dabz]

Between gw's bargain basement and the infrequent lidl bike gear discounts it's not too expensive to get kitted up - I think I did my test in jeans and a leather jacket I was given, got gloves and boots from Phoenix!

I rode up to Tina and kev's this weekend in jeans, trainers and bike jacket and while it was lovely in the hot sun I was on edge the whole time! (for the whole half a mile!)

[Davey]

I agree with it with a bit more notice to schools and students and I sent people away when I was instructing for not wearing correct kit or refusing to wear loan kit (not many refused after I offered them to stick their hand on a grinder as that was daft but pointing out same as the road!) We had a donation of old kit from customers and would give it to trainees who were on a budget and would see the kit returned once they could afford better kit. I still give away kit now or sell cheaply when I replace kit.

[Scaredy_Cat]

Mark, I may be wrong here, but do most training centres carry spare kit for people doing CBTs etc? I've done a few over the years, with 3 or 4 different centres, and they all had kit that we could use. This extended to the bike test also if required.

I was always told, if you can't afford safe kit, you can't afford to ride. You can get fully kitted up in George Whites for less than £100. I'll never forget my first CBT instructor telling me that as you slide down the road at 20mph, you lose the 1st layer of denim within 2 metres, then it's 1mm of skin/flesh for every extra metre you slide afterwards. That's a hell of a mess for other people to have to see and/or clear up.

I've ridden in jeans before, so I'm half playing devils advocate, but it's not something I do very often, and I have almost 12 years of riding experience. I certainly wouldn't recommend shorts & t-shirt to a 17 year old who is out for the first time on a 'ped, possibly trying to keep up with his/her mates etc.

IMO, it's a good lesson to teach at the start of someones motorcycle career, then when you have some experience, age & wisdom, you can perhaps take some minimal risks. Even when in jeans, I still have my leather jacket, and boots or very sturdy trainers on.

+1

[Beamer]

Mark, I may be wrong here, but do most training centres carry spare kit for people doing CBTs etc? I've done a few over the years, with 3 or 4 different centres, and they all had kit that we could use. This extended to the bike test also if required.

I was always told, if you can't afford safe kit, you can't afford to ride. You can get fully kitted up in George Whites for less than £100. I'll never forget my first CBT instructor telling me that as you slide down the road at 20mph, you lose the 1st layer of denim within 2 metres, then it's 1mm of skin/flesh for every extra metre you slide afterwards. That's a hell of a mess for other people to have to see and/or clear up.

I've ridden in jeans before, so I'm half playing devils advocate, but it's not something I do very often, and I have almost 12 years of riding experience. I certainly wouldn't recommend shorts & t-shirt to a 17 year old who is out for the first time on a 'ped, possibly trying to keep up with his/her mates etc.

IMO, it's a good lesson to teach at the start of someones motorcycle career, then when you have some experience, age & wisdom, you can perhaps take some minimal risks. Even when in jeans, I still have my leather jacket, and boots or very sturdy trainers on.


When Ive been out in the car with Connor he has heard us talking and now if he sees people on bikes showing any flesh i.e shorts t-shirts he will say they will hurt themselves if they come off. He already knows and he's 9 !!!
As a parent (of older kids too) I wouldnt allow them to ride without decent stuff....Im not talking alpine and all the big names...Im talking just protective clothing that does the job.
You wear goggles when you go swimming cos it can sting your eyes whilst you swim...people do that from experience...maybe it takes one or 2 offs with bare flesh showing to realise that it hurts!!

To be honest Im bloody glad i had such padded knees, hands and feet after the amount of times i dropped my bike ...i was lucky enough to just walk away with bruised pride hehehe ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Jacde]

:o do they still make shell suits???

[Squashed_Fly]

:o do they still make shell suits???

Not sure, but I bet Basil could tell you! ;D ;D ;D

[Nooj]

:o do they still make shell suits???

The NEDS still wear them up in Glasgae I believe.


I've even had a lady turn up in skirt and stilletoes... "Today the first part of your test will be practicing getting on and off of this Fireblade while I take pictures..."

As for the advice/orders from the DSA, it's the same stuff I was told before doing my CBT 11 years ago, nothing new there.

[Uber Dave]

SF I think you took my comment out of context. I stand by my statement though, at what point does the legislation go too far. Ultimately bikes are more dangerous than cars irrigardless of what you wear so, lets just ban them and solve anyone the hastle of clearing up bodies and skin etc.

I was not advocating wearing shorts and a tshirt, I have been to the shop like thst but thats a mile away in a 20 limit. But it should be up to me what i wear not some liberal do gooder in Whitehall to make my choice for me!

For the record at a training schools yes it should be required but no need for a law change just for that!

[Scotty]

Educate, not Legislate, as Mark pointed out. Perhaps some bright spark at the DSA (assuming they've ever employed one, doubtful...) could devise a simple display board for training schools to have on show - a simple photograph of the aftermath of a "skin crayon" (love that expression) having come to grief, with a simple slogan like "your skin, your choice" beneath it...

Discuss.

[Talan]

All I know is I'd be dead if I wasn't wearing my leathers, boots, gloves and a decent lid. If you ever want to buy a cheap lid then come and see what's left of mine after I was dragged down the road underneath the car by my head.

You don't ever expect to get involved in an accident, neither did I. I'm fortunate in that: I'm paralysed from the chest down not the neck down, the leathers stopped me from getting shredded/broken/killed.

Three moped riders were in the spinal unit at the same time as me, two had cheap lids, both were brain damaged, one couldn't even speak.

Your choice indeed, but I think anyone who considers themselves indestructible should spend some time in a wheelchair. I hate it, it totally sucks, don't join this club because you will loathe it too. I want everyone to enjoy riding and keep enjoying it, so wear proper kit.

[Jon_W]

The idea is sound. It does say at the bottom of the piece;

"More advice and guidance Clothing is one of the subjects covered in element A of compulsory basic training (CBT)."

As long as they stick to this guiance then all well and good. The issue with be the Jobsworths.

Once qualified, it's up to you.

[470four]

All I know is I'd be dead if I wasn't wearing my leathers, boots, gloves and a decent lid. If you ever want to buy a cheap lid then come and see what's left of mine after I was dragged down the road underneath the car by my head.

You don't ever expect to get involved in an accident, neither did I. I'm fortunate in that: I'm paralysed from the chest down not the neck down, the leathers stopped me from getting shredded/broken/killed.

Three moped riders were in the spinal unit at the same time as me, two had cheap lids, both were brain damaged, one couldn't even speak.

Your choice indeed, but I think anyone who considers themselves indestructible should spend some time in a wheelchair. I hate it, it totally sucks, don't join this club because you will loathe it too. I want everyone to enjoy riding and keep enjoying it, so wear proper kit.

+1 :)
I spoke to Talan the weekend & anybody who thinks they can get away with riding around in a t-shirt & trainers should do so & see the consequences of a real-time bike accident.

I have always worn full bike gear since riding motorcycles on the road @16 and will always continue to do so - sweat will wash off easier than scars or skin grafts, the human body is not designed to travel faster than running speed & if you chuck it down the road at 80mph then God help you if you dont have anything worthwhile between your skin & bone, tell your human rights to the Surgeon as he gives you another injection to help the pain & stop you screaming as they move you to another ward after getting noise complaints from the other patients...


& on that note - Squashed Fly - it took a while but you have finally come up with a solid & sensible argument, nearly proud of you! :)

[Squashed_Fly]

Dave - I know, as I said, just playing devils advocate really. Dodn't mean that as a personal comment. We've all been out in times in stuff and though afterwards 'if I'd come off, I'd have been mincemeat', myself included so I can't judge.

But this thread wasn't about changing the law, it was about making sure people with no experience, at test stage, are making good and informed choices about what they wear.

But some peopl really do believe 'it's my body, my brain, my choice', and it should be that way. So long as your choices don't impact on anyone else if they go wrong. The moment they can or do, then it becomes more of a selfish protest, rather than thinking about those that have to deal with what's left afterwards. And that includes me, every time I decide to put someone else at risk, by not wearing the maximum amount of safety gear possible.

Hey, nobody is perfect, and if we were, what a boring world....

[470four]

Dave - I know, as I said, just playing devils advocate really. Dodn't mean that as a personal comment. We've all been out in times in stuff and though afterwards 'if I'd come off, I'd have been mincemeat', myself included so I can't judge.

But this thread wasn't about changing the law, it was about making sure people with no experience, at test stage, are making good and informed choices about what they wear.

But some peopl really do believe 'it's my body, my brain, my choice', and it should be that way. So long as your choices don't impact on anyone else if they go wrong. The moment they can or do, then it becomes more of a selfish protest, rather than thinking about those that have to deal with what's left afterwards. And that includes me, every time I decide to put someone else at risk, by not wearing the maximum amount of safety gear possible.

Hey, nobody is perfect, and if we were, what a boring world....

If we were, we would all ride BMW's... :D :D

We can only set a good example to little-bike riders as to the correct attire? They can only look up to us as a possible role model - if they saw Kevin blatting around on his 'blade wearing a t-shirt & no gloves then the jacket will stay at home the next day etc. ;)

[Dabz]

My take on the "it's my body, my life" would be "yes and it's my taxes paying to scoop you up and try to put you back together again".

[Mark_Able]

Again, I'm playing devils advocate a bit. Where do we stop, as to what is acceptable? I personally wouldn't be caught dead wearing an open-face helmet. Now that comment might have got you thinking. Where is the facial protection? Years ago at CSM, an instructor of mine nearly lost the best part of his face in an accident, because his face hit the bike screen just below his bottom lip. He was left with a large scar, but it would've been far worse if he'd been travelling at speed. Any exposed skin is dangerous. We do our best to educate, right from element A on the CBT. But for years we've had to accept that not everyone is in a position to buy decent kit. We have had to accept the bare minimum. We are not the law, and the law doesn't support us. We use common sense as to what is acceptable. Part of the problem from our point of view, is jobsworth examiners taking the wording too literally. They do not excercise common sense. They are drones working for a queen bee, and don't have a brain of their own. I'm sure anyone would be p*ssed off if they turned up for their (expensive) bike test, only to be turned away. No refund. It happened to us before. We were training Simon Donald, editor of trashy college comic 'Viz'. He had travelled down from Newcastle (I kid you not) to do his bike test with us, on an imported Vespa T5. He was turned away at Trowbridge Test Centre because his speedo was in km's. Even though it had a mph overlay, they wouldn't accept it. No one had told us that km speedo's weren't acceptable. You can only imagine the problems and expense this caused. Of course, this is a different issue to safety. But if you're caught on the wrong end of new legislation, it can be very costly.

[redken1]

I think we are all in agreement that wearing the appropriate clothing while riding a motorcycle lowers the risk of severe injuries to the rider, but where do you draw the line? If the government introduced compulsory protective clothing for motorcyclists without much public opposition, it may decide to pass more legislation to lower the risk further. Excessive speed and ever increasing numbers of vehicles are two of the contributing factors to the carnage on our roads. Would it not therefore, be logical for the government to restrict all motorcycles to a maximum of say, 50 bhp output and/or fit them with speed restrictors?

When I was a child in the early seventies my friends and I used to relish arriving at school early during the winter months, so we could skate on the playground ice. Nowadays the local authorities shut the school gates if a couple of snowflakes land on the playground.

If a couple of boxers can smash the hell out of each other in the ring - If competitors involved in motor sports can race round a track at speeds of nearly 200mph - If rock climbers can hang from a 1000ft cliff on a length of rope - then why can’t I choose to ride my bike in my jeans If I so wish?
>:(

[Mark_Able]

I think we are all in agreement that wearing the appropriate clothing while riding a motorcycle lowers the risk of severe injuries to the rider, but where do you draw the line? If the government introduced compulsory protective clothing for motorcyclists without much public opposition, it may decide to pass more legislation to lower the risk further. Excessive speed and ever increasing numbers of vehicles are two of the contributing factors to the carnage on our roads. Would it not therefore, be logical for the government to restrict all motorcycles to a maximum of say, 50 bhp output and/or fit them with speed restrictors?

When I was a child in the early seventies my friends and I used to relish arriving at school early during the winter months, so we could skate on the playground ice. Nowadays the local authorities shut the school gates if a couple of snowflakes land on the playground.

If a couple of boxers can smash the hell out of each other in the ring - If competitors involved in motor sports can race round a track at speeds of nearly 200mph - If rock climbers can hang from a 1000ft cliff on a length of rope - then why can’t I choose to ride my bike in my jeans If I so wish?
>:(

Exactly my point Ken. Everything in life has a degree of risk, but it's MY CHOICE. I would probably never ride in inappropriate gear, but at least I still have the choice. Fed up with HSE dictating what I should and shouldn't do. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[redken1]

Of course if you take this debate to its ultimate conclusion Mark, who needs a 150bhp motorcycle? Not me, I need 200bhp ;)

[Uber Dave]

If a couple of boxers can smash the hell out of each other in the ring - If competitors involved in motor sports can race round a track at speeds of nearly 200mph - If rock climbers can hang from a 1000ft cliff on a length of rope - then why can’t I choose to ride my bike in my jeans If I so wish?
>:(

+1

[Bornagain]

Ha...Good thread.... i went out in shorts the other day just to drop the bike off at Bike aid. It's 30 seconds from my door and i went slower than i would have on a push bike (because thats as fast as the roads/traffic allowed)...the way i saw it was "if i have an 'impact' crash at that speed then it's not going to be tooooooo bad, and if i have a slide then it'll be no worse than gravel rash from when i was coming off my push bike as a kid! It was bloody a hot day, i risk assessed it and went for it, couldn't give a monkies if another biker saw me and tut tutted (yawn yawn!!) I knew what i was up to and trust my judgement

.....But, you wouldn't catch me on any kind of "ride out" without the right kit, i'm fully armoured up for the progressive stuff, but that just what i call common sense!

Ha ;)

[BladeTriple]

This is , after all and after all the bickering about 'its my life' blah drone bore etc... (bring on the same comments when you've got a permanent scar on your body and it stings like a bitch for weeks after) This ... is about the DSA and the TEST CENTRE ... its their train set and they can dictate what rules they like. At the end of the day no examiner , or instructor for that matter, really wants someone in front of them having any kind of incident or spill, they want even less to have to wait for an ambulance to come along and patch up the body parts that are missing skin.

Have a low speed off in the right kit on test you can more or less guarantee picking the bike up , thinking 'ah crap , that will be a fail then' and wobbling back to the test centre. Without the right kit its more likely to be a real drawn out patchwork to the skin and a blue light taxi affair.

If any of you out there wants to cut around in flip flops and shorts with only the mandatory legal requirement of a helmet on then please be my guest, it is after all your life! Me? No thanks even with my Draggin Jeans , jacket and full protective equipment , I still managed to come away with a permenant 3 inch scar on my right hip where the jacket and jeans came apart, damage to my left wrist and its looking like skeletal damage to my neck as well... all which would've been much much worse had I not been wearing the correct PPE .

In my honest opinion, get them on test wearing the right gear and like Mark says, all we can do is educate the riders of tomorrow.

As usual an innocent post about what COULD happen on TEST gets blown out of all proportion and made to sound like its going to effect our civil rights on the roads too ::) I bet half of you believe the gospel according to MCN too ;D

[redken1]

With respect Hizzy, the UK government are watching events in France and Ireland very closely.

[Loops]

I don't see that having a minimum level of kit for test day would be a problem - the test is supposed to be a 'perfect example' of riding after all, after that you can do what you want.

As someone said, it's a bit like having your hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel on a car test, except in this case it's actually a useful thing to specify! And a good habit to get into.

I get asked why I bother with the full top-to-toe kit on my 125 sometimes - and they stop asking when I explain that I got knocked off at less than 20mph, when a car crushed my foot between it and my bike. The doctor told me afterwards that the only thing stopping me from having a broken ankle was my proper motorbike boot. So it's full kit for me at all times. 8-)

[Nooj]

http://wiki.sabmagfaq.org/Road%20Rash%20Queen

[BB]

Thanks for the reminder on the link Nooj.

So there you go, it's your choice.

I know she was pillion and the rider should have been keeping her safe etc etc but it was her freedom of choice to climb on the back of someone who she presumably thought she could trust without wearing decent kit.

BB

[Kevinb]

Good job it was a lady turning up in skirt & stilletoes. Could have been worse ;D

People need to wear the proper gear whether on a test or after passing, but after passing it should be a personal choice and common sense should tell you what to wear. Money is tight when you are starting out with the price of a bike, insurance etc.. but sensible clothing is a must.
Now where are my flip flops

[470four]

http://wiki.sabmagfaq.org/Road%20Rash%20Queen

- & there you go...

Lacking as I am in the necessary Jedi powers to know if I am going to get hit off today by cars, HGV, pedestrians, diesel, branches, road debris etc I will continue to wear full leathers as I see fit ;)
Tarmac is a high-friction surface to keep your bike upright, God help you if you ever find yourself heading for it.

[Ducatista]

its their train set and they can dictate what rules they like

I'm with Hizzy on this.

Yes you can do what you want on your own time.
But if you are riding with an examiner or instructor whether voluntary or professional, then that person/institution has a say also as to what they get involved in and are potentially liable for.

As well as THEIR personal choice, there are also issues of liability, insurance etc.

If I had someone turn up on a ride with me and they were wearing shorts or had dangerous tyres or chain then it's MY perrogative not to go for a ride with that person.

Yes individuals have a choice, but so do instructors, examiners and test centers as to what they wish to be involved in.

[BladeTriple]

People need to wear the proper gear whether on a test or after passing, but after passing it should be a personal choice and common sense should tell you what to wear. Money is tight when you are starting out with the price of a bike, insurance etc.. but sensible clothing is a must.



If the kits out of your budget then the bike is too, get a cheaper set of wheels and buy the right kit! Got my new partner kitted out with boots, jacket and helmet for under £150 from GW's , could've spent less, gloves for another £30 and they have the budget version of draggin jeans on offer for £30 at the moment too. I'd rather spend £240 in the bargain basement at GW's on the right gear even if it doesn't look brilliant than go face do on the ground an tear my body to shreds ...it fecking hurts even with the right kit on !

[Squashed_Fly]

It's easy not to bother, if you think you won't come off, or it won't hurt if you do.

I've had severe gravel rash just from coming off a pushbike in shorts and sliding the road, and it hurt like hell. Can't imagine sliding the road after a bike accident with no protection.

Seeing that link above, has made me go 'i'm not going out in normal jeans again' on the bike.

Thanks for the heads up Hizzy, will pick up some of those discounted jeans for Jen & I

[NoYou]

The way I see it if people are obliged to take their test in proper gear then they are going to have the gear already by the time they come to buy a bike, if they have the gear they are more likely to wear it! Yes its expensive bu as hizzy just proved, you can get fully kitted out fairly cheaply, you don't need alren ness/aplinestar or any other big name just somthing that will stop your skin getting shredded if you slide down the road on your ass!
If you have all the right gear and then decide after your test not to wear it then yes it should remain your choice but I think if people have to have the right gear for their test they will have the right gear so are more likely to wear it all round!
Geo

[Ducatista]

I don't think the expense should come into it.
We don't bring up an expense argument against helmets or seatbelts.

I do feel for those just starting out on pocket money. I had a moped when I was 16, but we don't exempt them from helmet or seatbelt rules on grounds of cost, so it's not a valid line of argument.

For a lot of gear, 2nd hand is cheaper although I would never recommend buying a 2nd hand helmet.

[Mark_Able]

I'm not condoning people who ride in inadequate kit. As I stated, I refuse to train anyone who turns up in inadequate kit. I don't ride in inadequate kit myself. I have had my tumbles on diesel spills, and thank Mr Richa that his kit did the job. What I don't want though, is any more laws. And what I don't want is a workshy examiner finding excuses to turn people away.

Anyway, how many people here ride in an open face helmet? Have you thought of the consequences of all that exposed skin? Devils advocate again... ;)

[redken1]

I'm not condoning people who ride in inadequate kit. As I stated, I refuse to train anyone who turns up in inadequate kit. I don't ride in inadequate kit myself. I have had my tumbles on diesel spills, and thank Mr Richa that his kit did the job. What I don't want though, is any more laws. And what I don't want is a workshy examiner finding excuses to turn people away.

Anyway, how many people here ride in an open face helmet? Have you thought of the consequences of all that exposed skin? Devils advocate again... ;)

+1 Back-off Nanny State

[Roxy]

Those silly enough not to wear good protective kit are, in my eyes, asking for trouble. It sends a shiver down my spine when I see people in shorts and t shirts on bikes knowing that if they do come off there is nothing to stop the tarmac just grating away the layers of flesh, bone and muscle.

For the first time since passing my test, I wore a pair of normal jeans (stupid idea) on the short ride to le mans circuit from the hotel last year, yes it did feel cool and 'free' but I would never do it again. I felt very vunerable and very aware that if I did come off my jeans were going to provide me with no protection whatsoever :( plus when I hit a bumble bee and it exploded on my knee IT REALLY HURT!!! ;D

I like the comfort and reassurance of the leathers/textiles, the gloves, boots and of course the good quality lid.

It's designed to help protect from serious injury as much as it can do and/or try and save people's lives if they do unfortunatley come off so it must be worth it?!

I understand people have the right to choose whether they want to wear it or not but it's the only thing between you and the road, no metal cage with airbags for protection on a bike so why not kit yourself up.

The other thing that really winds me up is seeing guys/gals on bikes, fully kitted up with the leathers, boots, lid, gloves and then you look at the pillion (wife/GF/partner etc) and they have a lid on and maybe if they are lucky a jacket and gloves. They sit up there with jeans on, trainers/shoes and a normal jacket, usually with their arse hanging out and their spine exposed :o :o...WTF is going on there??
That screams to me saying 'I care about my own skin and body but I don't care enough about the person on the back...I'm alright jack'. I would never let someone get on the back of the Ars6 without the full kit on, that's just ridiculous. They don't have kit = they don't pillion.

Talan is right, he is living proof that it's needed. Wear it because it may just save your life one day.

Roxy x :)

[470four]

Kevlar what?? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBE98Raljwo

:'(